On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:17:54 GMT, "Iso" wrote:

Bob,



I respectfully disagree with you. "Domestic" cats tend to be solitary.

Cats the world over prove you wrong.

They do not form large groups with complex social structures as do dogs.

They form groups with far more complex structures than dogs.

Cats are also very territorial by nature, some more so than others.

Very true, and they will defend their territory very well from
outsiders unless the outsider makes the right approach.

However
because their social organizations are somewhat flexible, some cats are
relatively tolerant of sharing their house and territory with multiple cats
socially.

Sharing their territory with other cats is part of their nature,
though of course those humans cruel enough to attempt to restrict
their cats territory will cause the cat some serious problems.

It is not uncommon for a cat to tolerate certain other family
cats, but not get along with others in the house. In general, the more cats
you have, the more likely it is that some of your cats will begin fighting
with each other.

Each cat has to learn its place in the local cat society, and cat
society being so complex this can take time and may involve fights.

I tend to presuppose that if the cat has been solitary the
majority of its life, and another cat is introduced there is a fifty, fifty
chance of the solitary cat accepting the new cat. The topic we are disputing
has been argued centuries, and will continue to be argued for many more.

Only people who do not understand cats would argue, the rest of us
just accept their ways.



Regarding, the domestication of the common cat; technically speaking, cats
still are in the early stages of becoming a domestic animal, but the cats of
today are very much domesticated.

No it isn't. It is a wild animal that, for many reasons, finds it
useful to live with man.

What we do know is that the common cat
hasn't changed genetically much from the Egyptian times, although smaller in
size and stature. Needless to say, I think you are misunderstanding the
definition of domestication. It means to train or adapt (an animal or plant)
to live in a human environment

Something we have not done with the cat.

Maybe we could say that the cat has domesticated humans, it would in
reality be a far more truthful statement.

and be of use to humans, or to introduce and
accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize. So, by
definition the common house cat is domesticated. We as a class of humans
continued to domesticate cats, just as the Egyptians did, and for the same
reasons. Unfortunately, today the vast majority of cats are more for
novelty, and not for utility, not that there is necessarily anything wrong
with that. As you and I both already know, cats make great pets. The role of
the common cat has changed, unless you have a rodent problem or you live on
a farm.



Furthermore, regarding your opinion of "One reason cats moved in with man is
that it gave the cat even greater scope for social relationships - both with
humans and with other cats" that may be true, but again I respectfully
disagree. As early as 3500 B.C., Egyptians were domesticating wildcats from
Africa.

Try adding at least another 4,000 years to that.

These domesticated wildcats became treasured pets, and were honored
in many forms of artwork for their skill in hunting and killing rodents,
such as snakes, rats and mice.

The reality is slightly different. Humans started to store food, maybe
as early as 10,000 BC. This attracted rats and mice and they in turn
attracted the cats. Cats soon learned that humans were not a major
danger to them and that they could live very close to, or even inside,
human communities.

A really close relationship did probable start with humans hand
rearing some kittens, but the cats soon got the hang of the fact that
humans would often feed them and allow them shelter.

Certainly by around 6,000 BC cats could be found in the Middle East
almost anywhere humans were, in fact there has been evidence put
forward that cats were more populous than dogs.


Cats first came to Europe and the Middle East
about 1000 B.C., most likely from Greek and Phoenician traders. The ancient
Greeks and Romans also highly valued cats for their ability to control
undesirable rodents. Europeans once more began to realize the important role
cats played in controlling rodents, and cats gradually regained their
popularity. Traders, explorers and colonists brought domestic cats with them
to the New World during the 1600's and 1700's, and settlers continued to
take their cats with them as they moved towards the West. Most all the cats
of today in North America are descendants of these cats. Moreover, cats didn
't move in with man, we moved them in with us for utility. The rest is
history.

As you say - it is all history. However, you do need to study the
history. A lot of what you say was held to be true even ten years ago,
but the studies that have pushed back the dating of Egyptian
civilization by several thousand years have also helped to shed light
on how cats became our best allies.

--
Bob.

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be
Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.