Vet not detecting pregnancy

Sharon Talbert dumped this in
ashington.edu on 26
Mar 2004:

It is upsetting to catch a lactating cat. I am still conflicted on
what to do in such a case and would be interested in seeing some
debate on that issue (not the spay/abort issue, but nursing momcat
issue).

I'd be interested in seeing more on this, too. In Arjun's case that he
posted, I'd be torn. Then again, I've been torn over many situations as I'm
very inexperienced. I also think (and have been told) that you make many
"mistakes" even if you are a seasoned trapper. I made one that still keeps
me awake at night sometimes (not the trapping of a neighbors cat -- he's
ok.) There are so many snap decisions you seem to have to make when you
commit to the welfare of these beautiful animals.

--
Cheryl

It's hard to know the answer to this one. Perhaps it was a mistake but on
the other hand it may not have been. Given there are so many cats that get
dumped or simply unwanted in the world, this one got rescued and if the
pregnancy was terminated there was probably sufficient reason for it. You
also have to remember that there are also plenty of cats and kittens that
end up in the shelters because they were simply unwanted or that their human
couldn't handle the responsibility (which makes me mad because having a cat
is a lifetime commitment not an end it whenever you want). I wouldn't get
yourself bent out of shape over this one. It might have been for the best if
you think about it.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"Marion" wrote in message
om...
I'm feeling awful, and I suppose I'm wondering how much I should have
expected myself or the vet to know.
We've been fostering cats since December. On Feb 5 this year, we took
a cat -- perhaps 2 years old -- not much was known about her, except
that her 91-year-old owner had died and that the house was full of
unspayed/unneutered cats and dogs. Someone had said that she might be
pregnant.
About a month later, she was at the vet for a checkup, and the vet
said that she didn't seem to be pregnant, unless the pregnancy was
early along. So on Monday (March 22) she went in to be spayed.
When the volunteer brought her home last night, she said that the vet
discovered when he opened her that she was indeed pregnant, and that
he'd had to terminate the pregnancy.
Now, adding up 22 + 23 + an unknown number of days before she arrived,
and we're getting rather close to the 60-63 day gestation period. The
only thing that I noticed was that she had a voracious appetite. I've
felt her tummy, but never noticed anything unusual.
Was this vet really careless in starting a spaying operation without
checking, or is it an easy mistake to make?
I could cry -- I feel that I've let this pleasant little cat down.
Marion

It's hard to know the answer to this one. Perhaps it was a mistake but on
the other hand it may not have been. Given there are so many cats that get
dumped or simply unwanted in the world, this one got rescued and if the
pregnancy was terminated there was probably sufficient reason for it. You
also have to remember that there are also plenty of cats and kittens that
end up in the shelters because they were simply unwanted or that their human
couldn't handle the responsibility (which makes me mad because having a cat
is a lifetime commitment not an end it whenever you want). I wouldn't get
yourself bent out of shape over this one. It might have been for the best if
you think about it.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"Marion" wrote in message
om...
I'm feeling awful, and I suppose I'm wondering how much I should have
expected myself or the vet to know.
We've been fostering cats since December. On Feb 5 this year, we took
a cat -- perhaps 2 years old -- not much was known about her, except
that her 91-year-old owner had died and that the house was full of
unspayed/unneutered cats and dogs. Someone had said that she might be
pregnant.
About a month later, she was at the vet for a checkup, and the vet
said that she didn't seem to be pregnant, unless the pregnancy was
early along. So on Monday (March 22) she went in to be spayed.
When the volunteer brought her home last night, she said that the vet
discovered when he opened her that she was indeed pregnant, and that
he'd had to terminate the pregnancy.
Now, adding up 22 + 23 + an unknown number of days before she arrived,
and we're getting rather close to the 60-63 day gestation period. The
only thing that I noticed was that she had a voracious appetite. I've
felt her tummy, but never noticed anything unusual.
Was this vet really careless in starting a spaying operation without
checking, or is it an easy mistake to make?
I could cry -- I feel that I've let this pleasant little cat down.
Marion

In , Cheryl
wrote:

| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.

Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated. The cat in
question was also a candidate for "forced" socialization. She was very
timid, seen only on occasion. She was also the omega cat of the colony,
and we never knew if she got enough food. When we caught her, the basic
plan was to keep her. The unexpected litter changed everything.

| I also think (and have been told) that you make many "mistakes" even
| if you are a seasoned trapper.

I agree (speaking as someone who could lay claim to being a seasoned
trapper.)

| I made one that still keeps me awake at night sometimes

I have plenty of "blood on my hands". It can be a grim business.

| There are so many snap decisions you seem to have to make when you
| commit to the welfare of these beautiful animals.

It can be even worse when what looked like a good plan goes awry. Some
contingency comes up that you haven't anticipated (or, had decided that
it was too unlikely/show-stopping/resource-intensive to cater for.)

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.

In , Cheryl
wrote:

| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.

Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated. The cat in
question was also a candidate for "forced" socialization. She was very
timid, seen only on occasion. She was also the omega cat of the colony,
and we never knew if she got enough food. When we caught her, the basic
plan was to keep her. The unexpected litter changed everything.

| I also think (and have been told) that you make many "mistakes" even
| if you are a seasoned trapper.

I agree (speaking as someone who could lay claim to being a seasoned
trapper.)

| I made one that still keeps me awake at night sometimes

I have plenty of "blood on my hands". It can be a grim business.

| There are so many snap decisions you seem to have to make when you
| commit to the welfare of these beautiful animals.

It can be even worse when what looked like a good plan goes awry. Some
contingency comes up that you haven't anticipated (or, had decided that
it was too unlikely/show-stopping/resource-intensive to cater for.)

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.

Arjun Ray dumped this in
on 26 Mar 2004:

| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.

Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated.

I don't even want to know. Those decisions are personal ones based on
the greater good *at the time* regardless of what you find out later.
Those are what you learn by. I myself am still trying to muster up
courage to continue doing what I set out to do, even after getting shook
up over the last time. I know I have to, and these conversations help.

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.

Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long time.
That show is hard to watch.




--
Cheryl

Arjun Ray dumped this in
on 26 Mar 2004:

| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.

Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated.

I don't even want to know. Those decisions are personal ones based on
the greater good *at the time* regardless of what you find out later.
Those are what you learn by. I myself am still trying to muster up
courage to continue doing what I set out to do, even after getting shook
up over the last time. I know I have to, and these conversations help.

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.

Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long time.
That show is hard to watch.




--
Cheryl

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.


A man I came in contact a few years back, who was with the Phoenix ASPCA, Dave
Nora, I believe is his name, said something to me to the effect of the more
animals you help, the more mistakes you make. He said it more eloquently but I
can never remember how he said it exactly. He just said he tried to help as
many cats as he could and sometimes something bad would happen but he had the
greater good in mind. Of course, it's so sad and tragic for the ones it
happens to but I guess it's just in the numbers.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
(This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)
We lost a cat under tragic circumstances. Strcitly speaking, it was an
accident. But, as the experts, we should have been able to do better.


A man I came in contact a few years back, who was with the Phoenix ASPCA, Dave
Nora, I believe is his name, said something to me to the effect of the more
animals you help, the more mistakes you make. He said it more eloquently but I
can never remember how he said it exactly. He just said he tried to help as
many cats as he could and sometimes something bad would happen but he had the
greater good in mind. Of course, it's so sad and tragic for the ones it
happens to but I guess it's just in the numbers.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

In , Cheryl
wrote:
| Arjun Ray dumped this in
| on 26 Mar 2004:
|
|| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.
|
| Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated.
|
| I don't even want to know. Those decisions are personal ones based on
| the greater good *at the time* regardless of what you find out later.

The caretaker of the colony (a good friend of mine) agonized for a few
hours and then decided to release her. The odds were very much against
any of the litter surviving - and the consensus among colleagues was to
stick to the original plan of keeping her - but my friend just couldn't
stomach the idea of abandoning a litter so cold-bloodedly. I don't
blame her. In some sense, it was all our fault - for not having tried
hard enough to catch her earlier. (As a matter of fact among my her
cats are two of this cat's littermates, caught as kittens the summer
before.) It might have been different if we had a chance of locating
the litter ourselves (as Sharon posted) but we couldn't - the litter was
obviously inside an abandoned building that the city had sealed off very
efficiently (to keep homeless people out.)

Well, one kitten survived.

We nearly didn't do right by him either. He was over 3 months old when
we finally got around to catching him. He's my cat Phoenix.

You can see pictures of Ollie (the mother) at

http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/

The albums "Ferals", "Colony 1", and "In Transit". Phoenix has an album
to himself ("The Little One") but he's in many. The title page picture
of the "Ferals" album is one of Ollie (with another cat). It was taken
in late February 2002, when she must have been nearing term.

| In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
| (This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)

| Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long time.

You missed it again - they aired a rerun last week. (I found out only
from a hysterical message on my answering machine "Hey, Arjun, I saw you
on TV!!!").