Why the tiger almost killed Roy.

OSPAM (JLove98905) wrote in message ...
Why aren't the welfare groups putting pressure
on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations?

I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is unfair, but I'm
not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las Vegas and
stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised to learn
that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation programs. In
addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility.

That is totally and completely f'ed up. Dolphins and Orcas belong in
the wild, period. It is completely wrong to cage an animal which
swims literally hundreds of miles per day in a tank of any size. If
you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

There was
some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as being similar
to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees.

Oh, great. A great ape user.

-L.

If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

In ,
Yngver being of bellicose mind posted:
K wrote:

The latest I heard is the tiger is going to a zoo, because it is
an endangered species.

Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat
where the tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat
is somewhat better than some zoos can afford to provide.

Next time you're in Las Vegas, stop by the MGM to see the lion
habitat. In the late afternoon when the lions become active, two
humans play ball with the lions. The habitat has 2 1/2 large glass
walls and a glass tunnel thru the habitat. No tricks or performing,
just playing with a large pnuematic ball or two.

http://www.a2zlasvegas.com/otherside/sights/lions.html
http://www.vacationidea.com/articles..._Gallery6.html

--

~~Philip

"Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In ,
Yngver being of bellicose mind posted:
K wrote:

The latest I heard is the tiger is going to a zoo, because it is
an endangered species.

Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat
where the tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat
is somewhat better than some zoos can afford to provide.

Next time you're in Las Vegas, stop by the MGM to see the lion
habitat. In the late afternoon when the lions become active, two
humans play ball with the lions. The habitat has 2 1/2 large glass
walls and a glass tunnel thru the habitat. No tricks or performing,
just playing with a large pnuematic ball or two.

http://www.a2zlasvegas.com/otherside/sights/lions.html
http://www.vacationidea.com/articles..._Gallery6.html

--

~~Philip

"Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

--"JLove98905" wrote in message
...
I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is
unfair, but I'm
not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las
Vegas and
stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised
to learn
that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation
programs. In
addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility.
There was
some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as
being similar
to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees. The ideal solution
would be to
cut the performing, and focus on the conservation. Maybe that's what
they'll do
going forward.
I guess the point it, they have done some good for seriously
threatened
species, in addition to their show work. At least *part* of the
ludicrous
amount of money they make goes back to the animals.
-Jen
Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

Hi jen ,
Thanks for explaining , I didnt know this . The reasoning here is
The means just the ends.? I'm not convinced but I don't know enough
about the actual research they do and what's involved.
I know there are other consevation societies and research done else
where. I think in this case, that a show that could encourage people
to keep wild pets should spend the profits on the wild animals that
are kept as pets , sadly a law (brought in much too late ) to stop
people keeping tigers as pets could mean the death of many as they
have no where to go .
Alison

--"JLove98905" wrote in message
...
I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is
unfair, but I'm
not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las
Vegas and
stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised
to learn
that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation
programs. In
addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility.
There was
some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as
being similar
to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees. The ideal solution
would be to
cut the performing, and focus on the conservation. Maybe that's what
they'll do
going forward.
I guess the point it, they have done some good for seriously
threatened
species, in addition to their show work. At least *part* of the
ludicrous
amount of money they make goes back to the animals.
-Jen
Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

Hi jen ,
Thanks for explaining , I didnt know this . The reasoning here is
The means just the ends.? I'm not convinced but I don't know enough
about the actual research they do and what's involved.
I know there are other consevation societies and research done else
where. I think in this case, that a show that could encourage people
to keep wild pets should spend the profits on the wild animals that
are kept as pets , sadly a law (brought in much too late ) to stop
people keeping tigers as pets could mean the death of many as they
have no where to go .
Alison

JLove98905" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was
young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather
brave of her.
A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue
societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the
cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them
..
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and
rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs,
though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been
tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new
treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I
flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a
biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything
invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And
anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards.
Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that
was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I
was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian
to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal
world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not
the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own
health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study
was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage)
are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would
definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at
least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

JLove98905" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was
young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather
brave of her.
A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue
societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the
cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them
..
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and
rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs,
though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been
tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new
treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I
flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a
biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything
invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And
anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards.
Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that
was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I
was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian
to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal
world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not
the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own
health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study
was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage)
are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would
definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at
least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

"-L." wrote in message
m...

As much as I hate animal exploitation, I still have sympathy for Roy
Horn. Yes, he deserved it, but it would be sad for his family if he
died from it.

Hi L ,
I hope he doesn't die , I just don't feel sorry for him . He knows
the risks and has the choice of whether to perform or not but the
tigers don't have a choice.
Alison





It's a shame these shows are still allowed in this day and
age. The same as people keeping tigers as pets . I believe there
are
about 80,000 of them . Why aren't the welfare groups putting
pressure
on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations?

They are, all over the country and have been doing so for years.
There is finally some attention being given to the subject.

No shows -
no performing wild animals .

bingo.

-L.