(OT) I might be moving... purrs?

"Judith Latham" wrote in message
...
In article , jmcquown
wrote:
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association
expects me to pay $278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I
don't want to be a member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I
don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When I
called to ask what options I have the membership director suggested I
hire a lawyer and present my case before the board.

Sure, I could put the house on the market. The one next door (with all
the fancy upgrades) has been on the market for FIVE YEARS. And
meanwhile I'd still have to pay these ridiculous fees.

Persia and I could use some purrs.

Jill

Does this association provide any services at all? Is it merely a means to
control what you do? When you inherited the house was it stipulated that
you would have to pay this fee? What do they spend this money on? I'm sure
these are the questions your lawyer will ask and many more besides.

The only "services" I'm aware of is there is 24/7 security (it's a gated
community). I already pay them an $1800 a year assessment fee. There is a
community pool and tennis courts, neither of which I have ever or would ever
use. I suspect the entire purpose of home owners associations is to control
what people do. Remember some years ago when Catnipped had a new fence
installed? According to her HOA it was "too tall". It's like that here.
Bunch of control freaks.

The lawyer is familiar with this place. Before I could even finish
describing my plight he guessed where I live. Apparently he's tangled with
these folks before. Whether that's a good sign or a bad sign, I don't know.

It would seem that as the house next door has been on the market so long
that this association is devaluing your property. Maybe the money they
have in the fund should compensate you for that devaluation.

This house is devalued even without the help of the association. My parents
didn't do much of anything to upgrade this place. They built the house in
1987. And 1987 is what you get! The cooker in the kitchen is the original.
I'm surprised it still works. And ghastly wallpaper. I get depressed just
thinking about it.

If I have to sell, I'd have to sell it at a loss because whoever buys it
surely will want a lot of fancy upgrades. Granite countertops, stainless
steel appliances. Sorry, this house doesn't have any of that. So they'll
expect the house to be cheap because they'll have to put a lot of money into
it.

This is the house next door (and trust me, my house doesn't look anywhere
near as fancy as this):

http://www.discoverdataw.com/images/homes/pdfs/287.pdf

Purrs and prayers that your lawyer can stop this and that you are allowed
to live happily in the property that you own. That surely is everyone's
right.

One would think so. I just want to live here quietly. Don't bother me, I
won't bother you. I'll keep my lawn mowed and the shrubs trimmed. The
house won't fall down or disgrace anyone. But I don't want to join any
clubs. I don't want to socialize. I'm a recluse. Heck, if I could have
groceries delivered I'd never leave the house.

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me to pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I don't want to be a
member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I don't care to belong to
any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When I
called to ask what options I have the membership director suggested I hire
a lawyer and present my case before the board. So I did. And I have a
meeting with the lawyer on Monday. I'm absolutely unsure of what the
outcome will be. But they may be able to force me out of my house if I
can't come up with $278 a month for this absolutely ridiculous membership
requirement.

I didn't ask to move here. I didn't ask to inherit the house.

Sure, I could put the house on the market. The one next door (with all
the fancy upgrades) has been on the market for FIVE YEARS. And meanwhile
I'd still have to pay these ridiculous fees.

John said if need be he'll help me move to a nice apartment. Oh good
lord. I don't want to move again. I thought I was done with moving. And
Persia's getting old. I don't want to move Persia again.

Persia and I could use some purrs.

Jill


Jill you said you pay an annual fee of $1800 a year to be in the gated
community. That is the only fee you should be required to pay since it is a
gated community but it is all the laws in your area

This other fee is a requirement to be in the club. I am not a lawyer but
unless you signed something in the take over of the house, it is a deed
owned community( where they have the contract on the buyers of the house) or
in the contract you signed with the annual fee. IMO They are SOL.
Hopefully the lawyer will be able to take care of it

"Matthew" wrote in message
ng.com...

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me to pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I don't want to be a
member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I don't care to belong to
any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When I
called to ask what options I have the membership director suggested I
hire a lawyer and present my case before the board. So I did. And I
have a meeting with the lawyer on Monday. I'm absolutely unsure of what
the outcome will be. But they may be able to force me out of my house if
I can't come up with $278 a month for this absolutely ridiculous
membership requirement.

I didn't ask to move here. I didn't ask to inherit the house.

Sure, I could put the house on the market. The one next door (with all
the fancy upgrades) has been on the market for FIVE YEARS. And meanwhile
I'd still have to pay these ridiculous fees.

John said if need be he'll help me move to a nice apartment. Oh good
lord. I don't want to move again. I thought I was done with moving. And
Persia's getting old. I don't want to move Persia again.

Persia and I could use some purrs.

Jill


Jill you said you pay an annual fee of $1800 a year to be in the gated
community. That is the only fee you should be required to pay since it is
a gated community but it is all the laws in your area

This other fee is a requirement to be in the club. I am not a lawyer but
unless you signed something in the take over of the house, it is a deed
owned community( where they have the contract on the buyers of the house)
or in the contract you signed with the annual fee. IMO They are SOL.
Hopefully the lawyer will be able to take care of it


I do pay an annual $1800 "assessment" fee. When my mother asked me to come
here, because she couldn't deal with my father by herself anymore (he had
Alzheimers) I took over the finances. I made sure the bills were paid on
time. I made sure she wasn't getting ripped off. People seem to like
ripping off old people who live on fixed incomes. When the annual
assessment bill arrived I asked what it was. Oh, okay, I paid it.

When my mother died I didn't sign anything with this association. They
weren't involved with that process. According to SC law, the house passed
automatically to me (per the terms of her will) when she died in 2008. I'm
pretty sure none of these board members even knew my mother. I can tell you
I didn't sign a contract with anybody. I have had no contact with these
people other than them threatening to take my house away if I don't join
their "club". I hope the lawyer can help.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association
expects me to pay $278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I
don't want to be a member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I
don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When I
called to ask what options I have the membership director suggested I
hire a lawyer and present my case before the board. So I did. And I
have a meeting with the lawyer on Monday. I'm absolutely unsure of what
the outcome will be. But they may be able to force me out of my house
if I can't come up with $278 a month for this absolutely ridiculous
membership requirement.

I didn't ask to move here. I didn't ask to inherit the house.

That may not matter, Jill. Many housing developments in the U.S. (no
longer just condominium complexes) seem to have "Homeowners
Associations" to which membership is compulsory. Not only is dues a
legal obligation, but they can dictate what "improvements" you may or
may not make to your property. (Including planting or cutting down
trees, building or tearing down storage sheds and garages, adding rooms
or second stories, etc.) It doesn't seem fair, when you merely
inherited the property, and I"d make damned sure there was no such
stipulation in any property purchase I might make, but if the original
purchaser agreed to it, I don't think you have a choice. (Other than
selling the property, which may not be so easy in today's economy.)

"hopitus" wrote in message
...
On Oct 29, 8:47 am, "MaryL" wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in ...
"Pat" wrote in message

... "jmcquown"
wrote
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me to
pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club.... They're
threatening
to put a lein on my house if I don't join!

What services are they providing for the fees they collect? Is it a
gated
community with 24/7 security? Do they mow your lawn weekly? Do they
have a
community center for residents? Tennis courts? Pool? Recreational
facilities? Gym? Did your parents pay these fees?

It *is* a gated community with 24/7 security. But I already pay them
$1800
a year annual assessment for that. No, they won't mow my lawn. They do
have a swimming pool and tennis courts but those aren't something I'd
use.
(I had those amenities at the last two apartments where I lived; I didn't
use them there, either.) The membership includes eating dinner at The
CLUB.
I gather they expect you to do so even if you don't want to. Years ago
when
I'd visit my parents we ate at the club. Each time the food was just a
boring, bland buffet. (I remember my father bitching about *having* to
eat
there.) My parents "sold" their membership in 2001. I have the
paperwork
about that.

I think the fact that I inherited the property should be taken into
consideration. It's not like I woke up one day and decided to move here.

Jill

- - - - - - - - -

I don't have any legal training, but I doubt if the fact that it is
inherited property would gain you an exemption. You can say that you did
not ask to move there; they can respond that they did not ask you to move
there. The part of your message that sounds hopeful is that you said
your
parents "sold" their membership and you have the paperwork. I'm sure
there
will be a question about whether that type of membership can be bought
and
sold. Your lawyer will look into that, but I'm guessing that a lot of
your
case will hinge on that question. I certainly can't see any way that you
can be forced to eat at the club. I'm guessing that your parents were
responding to peer pressure, not legal codes. Unfortunately, home owners
associations have a lot of power, and some of them have been abusive with
that power.

MaryL

I got some revised paperwork in the mail today. Apparently they sent me the
wrong thing. (It's not any better this time around.) The person
highlighted "Annual Dining Minimum $1380 per year". That is in addition to
the "Social Membership". They DO expect you to eat at the Club. And pay
for it. It's not something I'm interested in doing. (The couple of times I
ate there with my parents when I visited over the years the food was
spectacularly unimpressive.)

Looks like I'll be putting the house on the market and getting the hell out
of Dodge. I'll be damned if I'm going let some committee tell me how I have
to live my life. Especially when they want to charge me for it.

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message ...


"hopitus" wrote in message
...
On Oct 29, 8:47 am, "MaryL" wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in ...
"Pat" wrote in message

... "jmcquown"
wrote
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment
with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association expects me to
pay
$278 a month to become a "member" of their club.... They're
threatening
to put a lein on my house if I don't join!

What services are they providing for the fees they collect? Is it a
gated
community with 24/7 security? Do they mow your lawn weekly? Do they
have a
community center for residents? Tennis courts? Pool? Recreational
facilities? Gym? Did your parents pay these fees?

It *is* a gated community with 24/7 security. But I already pay them
$1800
a year annual assessment for that. No, they won't mow my lawn. They do
have a swimming pool and tennis courts but those aren't something I'd
use.
(I had those amenities at the last two apartments where I lived; I didn't
use them there, either.) The membership includes eating dinner at The
CLUB.
I gather they expect you to do so even if you don't want to. Years ago
when
I'd visit my parents we ate at the club. Each time the food was just a
boring, bland buffet. (I remember my father bitching about *having* to
eat
there.) My parents "sold" their membership in 2001. I have the
paperwork
about that.

I think the fact that I inherited the property should be taken into
consideration. It's not like I woke up one day and decided to move here.

Jill

- - - - - - - - -

I don't have any legal training, but I doubt if the fact that it is
inherited property would gain you an exemption. You can say that you did
not ask to move there; they can respond that they did not ask you to move
there. The part of your message that sounds hopeful is that you said
your
parents "sold" their membership and you have the paperwork. I'm sure
there
will be a question about whether that type of membership can be bought
and
sold. Your lawyer will look into that, but I'm guessing that a lot of
your
case will hinge on that question. I certainly can't see any way that you
can be forced to eat at the club. I'm guessing that your parents were
responding to peer pressure, not legal codes. Unfortunately, home owners
associations have a lot of power, and some of them have been abusive with
that power.

MaryL

I got some revised paperwork in the mail today. Apparently they sent me the
wrong thing. (It's not any better this time around.) The person
highlighted "Annual Dining Minimum $1380 per year". That is in addition to
the "Social Membership". They DO expect you to eat at the Club. And pay
for it. It's not something I'm interested in doing. (The couple of times I
ate there with my parents when I visited over the years the food was
spectacularly unimpressive.)

Looks like I'll be putting the house on the market and getting the hell out
of Dodge. I'll be damned if I'm going let some committee tell me how I have
to live my life. Especially when they want to charge me for it.

Jill

- - - - - - - -
That's idiotic. I have read reports about lots of overly restrictive rules
and regulations from homeowners associations (color of paint, height of
fences, types of modifications, etc.), but I have *never* heard of a
requirement that one must eat at the club and pay an outrageous price for
the privilege. I would think that some of the current members should get
together and vote on amendments and possibly vote officers out of
office--much easier said than done, of course. I refused to even look at
houses where there was a homeowners association when I bought mine, but this
may not have been disturbing to your parents.

MaryL

On 10/29/2011 10:50 AM, jmcquown wrote:

"Judith Latham" wrote in message
...
In article , jmcquown
wrote:

This house is devalued even without the help of the association. My
parents didn't do much of anything to upgrade this place. They built the
house in 1987. And 1987 is what you get! The cooker in the kitchen is
the original. I'm surprised it still works. And ghastly wallpaper. I get
depressed just thinking about it.

If I have to sell, I'd have to sell it at a loss because whoever buys it
surely will want a lot of fancy upgrades. Granite countertops, stainless
steel appliances. Sorry, this house doesn't have any of that. So they'll
expect the house to be cheap because they'll have to put a lot of money
into it.

This is the house next door (and trust me, my house doesn't look
anywhere near as fancy as this):

http://www.discoverdataw.com/images/homes/pdfs/287.pdf

The listing for that house on the Century 21 website (looks like a
different house) says "club membership required".

"news" wrote in message
...
On 10/29/2011 10:50 AM, jmcquown wrote:

"Judith Latham" wrote in message
...
In article , jmcquown
wrote:

This house is devalued even without the help of the association. My
parents didn't do much of anything to upgrade this place. They built the
house in 1987. And 1987 is what you get! The cooker in the kitchen is
the original. I'm surprised it still works. And ghastly wallpaper. I get
depressed just thinking about it.

If I have to sell, I'd have to sell it at a loss because whoever buys it
surely will want a lot of fancy upgrades. Granite countertops, stainless
steel appliances. Sorry, this house doesn't have any of that. So they'll
expect the house to be cheap because they'll have to put a lot of money
into it.

This is the house next door (and trust me, my house doesn't look
anywhere near as fancy as this):

http://www.discoverdataw.com/images/homes/pdfs/287.pdf

The listing for that house on the Century 21 website (looks like a
different house) says "club membership required".


Not to be rude, but "Duh!" That's what we're talking about. The difference
is I didn't buy this house.

Jill

In ,
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) typed:
jmcquown wrote:
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association
expects me to pay $278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I
don't want to be a member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I
don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When
I called to ask what options I have the membership director
suggested I hire a lawyer and present my case before the board. So
I did. And I have a meeting with the lawyer on Monday. I'm
absolutely unsure of what the outcome will be. But they may be able
to force me out of my house if I can't come up with $278 a month for
this absolutely ridiculous membership requirement.

I didn't ask to move here. I didn't ask to inherit the house.

That may not matter, Jill. Many housing developments in the U.S. (no
longer just condominium complexes) seem to have "Homeowners
Associations" to which membership is compulsory. Not only is dues a
legal obligation, but they can dictate what "improvements" you may or
may not make to your property. (Including planting or cutting down
trees, building or tearing down storage sheds and garages, adding
rooms or second stories, etc.) It doesn't seem fair, when you merely
inherited the property, and I"d make damned sure there was no such
stipulation in any property purchase I might make, but if the original
purchaser agreed to it, I don't think you have a choice. (Other than
selling the property, which may not be so easy in today's economy.)

IANAL, especially not an American one, however, my understanding would be
that if there is some sort of legally binding community membership
requirement covering the property, then Jill, as legal owner, must meet
those requirements regardless of whether she "wants" to or not, regardless
of whether she wishes to make use of the services they provide or not, and,
as far as I understand the difference between US law and Australian law, pay
the required fees even if they are a complete rip-off in terms of what those
fees provide. It is part & parcel of owning property there and would be
covered in the deeds of the property.

The interesting part is that apparently, Jill's parents "sold" their
membership, which suggests that the membership is /transferable/ and is not
strictly associated with the actual property. From my understanding of the
law (again, IANAL) Jill's liability is dependant on the terms on which her
parents sold their membership. If the membership can be fully transferred
into another's name, then the party responsible for any further membership
fees is the person who owns said membership, not the current owner of the
property (ie, Jill). She (or her lawyer) needs only to prove legally that it
is the purchasing party that has failed to pay, and that they need to persue
the owners of the *membership* and not the owner of the *property* that the
membership is associated with.

However, if the sale of the membership was more like a 'lease' (you can use
our membership for a set amount of time for a set amount of money), then if
the other party and the property owner (ie, now Jill) hasn't renewed the
"lease" of the membership, then it would revert to the property owner and
therefore Jill is liable for any charges against the membership once the
membership became the property owner's responsibility again. And HOA is
right, they can make a claim against her property if she does not pay.

HOWEVER, if she can "sell" the membership like her parents did, then she
would not be liable for the fees *in the future* and could live there
without paying future membership fees for as long as the conditions of the
sale of membership lasts.

Either way, Jill is doing exactly the right thing by consulting a Real Life
lawyer.

Jill, purrs that you & your lawyer can sort something out that you are
satisfied with.

Yowie

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
In ,
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) typed:
jmcquown wrote:
I'm in a dispute with the home owners association and have an
appointment with a lawyer on Monday. The home owners association
expects me to pay $278 a month to become a "member" of their club. I
don't want to be a member of their "club". As Groucho Marx said, "I
don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

They're threatening to put a lein on my house if I don't join! When
I called to ask what options I have the membership director
suggested I hire a lawyer and present my case before the board. So
I did. And I have a meeting with the lawyer on Monday.

That may not matter, Jill. Many housing developments in the U.S. (no
longer just condominium complexes) seem to have "Homeowners
Associations" to which membership is compulsory. Not only is dues a
legal obligation, but they can dictate what "improvements" you may or
may not make to your property.

I'm aware of all that. But thanks! Moving is now not an option. For as
long as this house is on the market I'd still have to pay the property
taxes, the homeowners insurance (incl. SC Wind/Hail/Flood coverage). It
could take 10 years to sell this place. No, selling is no longer an option.

IANAL, especially not an American one, however, my understanding would be
that if there is some sort of legally binding community membership
requirement covering the property, then Jill, as legal owner, must meet
those requirements regardless of whether she "wants" to or not, regardless
of whether she wishes to make use of the services they provide or not,
and, as far as I understand the difference between US law and Australian
law, pay the required fees even if they are a complete rip-off in terms of
what those fees provide. It is part & parcel of owning property there and
would be covered in the deeds of the property.

I never got a copy of the "covenants" (as they call them). How was I to
know about this requirement?

The interesting part is that apparently, Jill's parents "sold" their
membership, which suggests that the membership is /transferable/ and is
not strictly associated with the actual property. From my understanding of
the law (again, IANAL) Jill's liability is dependant on the terms on which
her parents sold their membership. If the membership can be fully
transferred into another's name, then the party responsible for any
further membership fees is the person who owns said membership, not the
current owner of the property (ie, Jill). She (or her lawyer) needs only
to prove legally that it is the purchasing party that has failed to pay,
and that they need to persue the owners of the *membership* and not the
owner of the *property* that the membership is associated with.

LOLOL! Very interesting point! Dad sold the membership back to the
association. (And he had to pay them $1000 for doing so; I have a copy of
the check attached to the transfer.) Then they sold it to someone else.
These people are greedy as hell, wouldn't you say?

However, if the sale of the membership was more like a 'lease' (you can
use our membership for a set amount of time for a set amount of money),
then if the other party and the property owner (ie, now Jill) hasn't
renewed the "lease" of the membership, then it would revert to the
property owner and therefore Jill is liable for any charges against the
membership once the membership became the property owner's responsibility
again. And HOA is right, they can make a claim against her property if she
does not pay.

I think I understood that. LOL It's an annual membership.

HOWEVER, if she can "sell" the membership like her parents did, then she
would not be liable for the fees *in the future* and could live there
without paying future membership fees for as long as the conditions of the
sale of membership lasts.

The Board has to approve selling memberships. And somehow I don't think
they're in the mood to do that right now. LOL

Either way, Jill is doing exactly the right thing by consulting a Real
Life lawyer.

Yes, I did consult an attorney who specializes in this sort of thing. He
did say the state of South Carolina frowns upon HOA's that try to take
advantage of homeowners. He had a bookshelf filled with notebooks of the
covenants/rules of the various HOA's in the area. There is some question
about my father being able to sell his membership *after* the amendment to
the covenants stated *everyone* who owns property here must be a member.
That could work to our advantage. I know darn good and well there have to
be other people living here who aren't members of anything. I just don't
know who they are.

Jill, purrs that you & your lawyer can sort something out that you are
satisfied with.

Yowie
Thank you, Yowie.

Jill