Gaubster's Outlandish Claims (was: "Science Diet" Hairball Control Sensitivity )

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons.

...there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!

You call everyone whose had a bad experience with Hill's, a Hill's basher.

Lauren, she admitted it herself. That's why.

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons.

...there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!

You call everyone whose had a bad experience with Hill's, a Hill's basher.

Lauren, she admitted it herself. That's why.

From: "Cheryl"
Date: 10/22/03 3:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In ,
GAUBSTER2 composed with style:

...there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!

Ya know, just because you keep repeating the phrase "Hill's basher"
over and over ad nauseam isn't going to change anything except for the
number of people who kill file you as they get sick of it. Think
about it. If I were Steve Crane (God forbid) or any other Hill's rep
I'd consider you an embarrassment and seek an injunction to shut you
up. Pronto. You're quite sickening.

I think you (and your ilk) just don't like being challenged. It's quite
apparent to me that is the case since you resort to name calling. If you're
keeping score here on the number of Hill's haters (how's that term for you?) vs
the number of Hill's supporters--what's the score? Are you losing? Is that
why you're all upset?

From: "Cheryl"
Date: 10/22/03 3:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In ,
GAUBSTER2 composed with style:

...there you go. A Hill's basher come clean!

Ya know, just because you keep repeating the phrase "Hill's basher"
over and over ad nauseam isn't going to change anything except for the
number of people who kill file you as they get sick of it. Think
about it. If I were Steve Crane (God forbid) or any other Hill's rep
I'd consider you an embarrassment and seek an injunction to shut you
up. Pronto. You're quite sickening.

I think you (and your ilk) just don't like being challenged. It's quite
apparent to me that is the case since you resort to name calling. If you're
keeping score here on the number of Hill's haters (how's that term for you?) vs
the number of Hill's supporters--what's the score? Are you losing? Is that
why you're all upset?

You are the one continuously following people around and bashing them
for their choice in pet foods. I didn't ask for your assessment of
Nutro. I posted an alternative to SD when someone asked for it, and
you proceeded to tell me how much you hate it, as if I even cared what
you thought. I could care less what you feed your cats. My
experience with SD has proven to me it's crap and the company is
unethical. YMMV, and apparently, it does.

-L.

You really need to read more closely. It's your assumption that I bash what
other people feed. I don't do that. I simply offer my opinion just like
everybody else does. If you don't like it, fine. But then you follow it up by
flaming me. I even agreed in another thread that people can feed whatever they
choose and that's their business. Yet you are mischaracterizing my posts.
Why? Your experience only clouds your judgement of Hill's and not other
companies. Trust me, Nutro operates very unethically and Eukanuba is just as
good (actually I'd say much better) at throwing around the freebies as Hill's
is. Yet you feed Nutro and Euk products and don't like Hill's? You're
starting to sound like a hypocrite.

Ingredient labels (and the guaranteed analysis) won't change unless the
switch
is for longer than 6 months. In the meantime, who knows what the
guaranteed
analysis of any given bag's content would be?

It's guarateed to be what's listed on the bag.


Oh really? That's not the way it works, but you can believe whatever you want.
By law, the manufacturer of a pet food does not have to indicate an ingredient
change on their label as long as they don't do it for more than 6 months.

You are the one continuously following people around and bashing them
for their choice in pet foods. I didn't ask for your assessment of
Nutro. I posted an alternative to SD when someone asked for it, and
you proceeded to tell me how much you hate it, as if I even cared what
you thought. I could care less what you feed your cats. My
experience with SD has proven to me it's crap and the company is
unethical. YMMV, and apparently, it does.

-L.

You really need to read more closely. It's your assumption that I bash what
other people feed. I don't do that. I simply offer my opinion just like
everybody else does. If you don't like it, fine. But then you follow it up by
flaming me. I even agreed in another thread that people can feed whatever they
choose and that's their business. Yet you are mischaracterizing my posts.
Why? Your experience only clouds your judgement of Hill's and not other
companies. Trust me, Nutro operates very unethically and Eukanuba is just as
good (actually I'd say much better) at throwing around the freebies as Hill's
is. Yet you feed Nutro and Euk products and don't like Hill's? You're
starting to sound like a hypocrite.

Ingredient labels (and the guaranteed analysis) won't change unless the
switch
is for longer than 6 months. In the meantime, who knows what the
guaranteed
analysis of any given bag's content would be?

It's guarateed to be what's listed on the bag.


Oh really? That's not the way it works, but you can believe whatever you want.
By law, the manufacturer of a pet food does not have to indicate an ingredient
change on their label as long as they don't do it for more than 6 months.

Lauren, that just goes to show what you know about nutrition. You would
rather
feed a high phosphorus, high calcium, pH acidifying diet that uses whatever
ingredients are cheapest at the time instead of a diet that uses a fixed
formulation,

Um, I don't feed commercial cat food, remember? I said if the choice were
Scie
Die or Nutro, Nutro would be my choice.

Yeah, I remember and then you back up my post anyway! Thanks!

Lauren, that just goes to show what you know about nutrition. You would
rather
feed a high phosphorus, high calcium, pH acidifying diet that uses whatever
ingredients are cheapest at the time instead of a diet that uses a fixed
formulation,

Um, I don't feed commercial cat food, remember? I said if the choice were
Scie
Die or Nutro, Nutro would be my choice.

Yeah, I remember and then you back up my post anyway! Thanks!

"-L." wrote in message
m...
"Phil P." wrote in message
...
"-L." wrote in message
m...
. In fact, my cats have been fed Nutro ever since it
first
came on the market.

You must have very old cats! Nutro came on the market 70 years ago.

Well, of course I meant came on the market where I lived.


Of course you did... You made it very clear that "the market" meant "the
market where you live". Silly me...




Years ago Nutro was indeed an excellent food, if not one of the best.
And
that's what their current reputation is based on. Nutro's current line
is a
very far cry from their original diets.

I fed Nutro to my cats and dogs for years and I was also a very strong
Nutro
proponent until.....

1. I noticed a subtle but steady increase in the calcium and phosphorus
levels in their proximate analyses -- which is an indication of poorer
quality ingredients, i.e., lesser amounts of meat and more bone (- the
"spare rib" effect as opposed to the "prime rib" effect).

Never had an adverse effect on my cats bood analyses. My cats are 12
and 13, and have been fed Nutro since about 1993 (IIRC).

Good for you!

Why not feed Friskies at 1/3 -1/4 the price? Its about the same quality as
the present Nutro product line, in fact its probably even a little better
quality ... You could buy your cats a few more cat trees and lot of toys
with all the money you'd save and your cats will probably be getting better
nutrition...



2. Nutro stopped using feeding trials to assure the nutritional
adequacy
and digestibility of their diets. They now use a generic formula of a
"similar" diet with the nutritional "similarity" of a diet that was used
in
feeding protocols - that may or may not contain the same nutrients or
nutrient levels - nor does each diet need to be analyzed. Chemical
analysis
of a diet cost about $2K/diet whereas a feeding trial can cost
$10K/diet.
Even Friskies uses feeding trials...

I don't have a problem with companies doing LESS animal
experimentation,

I don't think even Peta considers feeding protocols "animal
experimentation"... Is taking a cat's rectal temperature "impaling"?


especially when a food product has been on the market
for awhile.

That's just it.... The present Nutro *isn't* the same food product that's
been on the market.... Every batch is different; the ingredients and
nutrients depend on the market price of the raw materials... The lowest bid
gets the deal... Not exactly an assurance of quality or consistency. The
raw materials can come from different and/or unknown suppliers every time --
whoever bids the lowest.




Wait until 1/1/2005 - I'd like to see what Nutro does when the "Pet Food
Product Families" regulation goes into effect!

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of
the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.


Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.


I don't think you quite understand what the guaranteed analysis actually is.
The guaranteed analysis are minimums or maximums *only* and not the *actual*
nutrient content of the food. Two different foods with the *same*
guaranteed analysis could have actual nutrient contents that are*100%*
different, yet both foods would meet their guaranteed analysis. A can of
shoe leather and motor oil sprinkled with a few vitamins minerals would meet
a guaranteed analysis...



IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

4. Soon after the last significant increase in Ca & P and the switch to
least cost formulation, Nutro stopped publishing the proximate analyses
of
all their diets on their website - which they've done for years as a
"testament" of the "superiority" of their diets...


The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one
else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your
right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder
criticizing
Hill's.

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons. They push their food to
vets with incentives and freebies,

That sure is a good reason...... I'm sure that really ****es the cats off,
too!


I don't know how many people I know have
thrown away money on ths stuff because their vets pushed it and their
cats wouldn't eat it.

Hill's has a 100% money back guarantee.... even if the package is opened....
For someone who knows so much about Hill's, I'm surprised you didn't know
that....? You're just full of surprises! LOL!



I mean no offense, I just think its funny. Kinda like drinking bar
brandy and criticizing Remy Martin or Courvoisier.

Yeah, whatever. Really funny.


I know! I thought so too! LOL!

"-L." wrote in message
m...
"Phil P." wrote in message
...
"-L." wrote in message
m...
. In fact, my cats have been fed Nutro ever since it
first
came on the market.

You must have very old cats! Nutro came on the market 70 years ago.

Well, of course I meant came on the market where I lived.


Of course you did... You made it very clear that "the market" meant "the
market where you live". Silly me...




Years ago Nutro was indeed an excellent food, if not one of the best.
And
that's what their current reputation is based on. Nutro's current line
is a
very far cry from their original diets.

I fed Nutro to my cats and dogs for years and I was also a very strong
Nutro
proponent until.....

1. I noticed a subtle but steady increase in the calcium and phosphorus
levels in their proximate analyses -- which is an indication of poorer
quality ingredients, i.e., lesser amounts of meat and more bone (- the
"spare rib" effect as opposed to the "prime rib" effect).

Never had an adverse effect on my cats bood analyses. My cats are 12
and 13, and have been fed Nutro since about 1993 (IIRC).

Good for you!

Why not feed Friskies at 1/3 -1/4 the price? Its about the same quality as
the present Nutro product line, in fact its probably even a little better
quality ... You could buy your cats a few more cat trees and lot of toys
with all the money you'd save and your cats will probably be getting better
nutrition...



2. Nutro stopped using feeding trials to assure the nutritional
adequacy
and digestibility of their diets. They now use a generic formula of a
"similar" diet with the nutritional "similarity" of a diet that was used
in
feeding protocols - that may or may not contain the same nutrients or
nutrient levels - nor does each diet need to be analyzed. Chemical
analysis
of a diet cost about $2K/diet whereas a feeding trial can cost
$10K/diet.
Even Friskies uses feeding trials...

I don't have a problem with companies doing LESS animal
experimentation,

I don't think even Peta considers feeding protocols "animal
experimentation"... Is taking a cat's rectal temperature "impaling"?


especially when a food product has been on the market
for awhile.

That's just it.... The present Nutro *isn't* the same food product that's
been on the market.... Every batch is different; the ingredients and
nutrients depend on the market price of the raw materials... The lowest bid
gets the deal... Not exactly an assurance of quality or consistency. The
raw materials can come from different and/or unknown suppliers every time --
whoever bids the lowest.




Wait until 1/1/2005 - I'd like to see what Nutro does when the "Pet Food
Product Families" regulation goes into effect!

3. Nutro went off "fixed formula" and onto "least cost formulation" to
compound their diets. That means that the amounts and quality of the
ingredients and nutrient levels can fluctuate with the market prices of
the
raw materials. So the final formula at any given time for any batch of
diets may or may not be the same formula as the one actually tested.


Guaranteed analysis is the same. I don't see a problem with this. I
don't care if my protein comes from beef, chicken, or whatever. If
the bag is pulled, it has to meet the guarateed analysis.


I don't think you quite understand what the guaranteed analysis actually is.
The guaranteed analysis are minimums or maximums *only* and not the *actual*
nutrient content of the food. Two different foods with the *same*
guaranteed analysis could have actual nutrient contents that are*100%*
different, yet both foods would meet their guaranteed analysis. A can of
shoe leather and motor oil sprinkled with a few vitamins minerals would meet
a guaranteed analysis...



IOW,
the final formula is a crap-shoot. Btw, Hill's uses fixed formula
formulation to compound their diets...

4. Soon after the last significant increase in Ca & P and the switch to
least cost formulation, Nutro stopped publishing the proximate analyses
of
all their diets on their website - which they've done for years as a
"testament" of the "superiority" of their diets...


The food you choose to feed your cats is your business and no one
else's.
You have the right to choose whatever food you like and I respect your
right
to choose. I just thought it was comical to see a Nutro feeder
criticizing
Hill's.

Well, I hate Hills for a number of reasons. They push their food to
vets with incentives and freebies,

That sure is a good reason...... I'm sure that really ****es the cats off,
too!


I don't know how many people I know have
thrown away money on ths stuff because their vets pushed it and their
cats wouldn't eat it.

Hill's has a 100% money back guarantee.... even if the package is opened....
For someone who knows so much about Hill's, I'm surprised you didn't know
that....? You're just full of surprises! LOL!



I mean no offense, I just think its funny. Kinda like drinking bar
brandy and criticizing Remy Martin or Courvoisier.

Yeah, whatever. Really funny.


I know! I thought so too! LOL!