Kitten status - day 3

The two little babies are *adorable*. They're both Siamese/tabby mixes,
probably lilac point. They are very playful - all they want to do is
attack each other or me. I think I've taught them not to bite hard,
which they were doing at first. Each time they bit hard enough to cause
pain, I made a somewhat loud, high-pitched noise. Each time I did that,
they stopped at looked at me in surprise. But now I notice that when
they play-bite me, they're both very gentle. I should probably train
them not to scratch, but that's a harder sell, since that's the main
thing they do when playing! My arms and hands are covered with tiny
kitten scratches.

I am worried about them in one way - they've both had diarrhea since
Saturday. Jackie, my contact from the rescue group, says that it's because
they suddenly had to go from mother's milk to solid food, and their
digestive systems are trying to adjust. I hope that's all it is. I have
them in a large cage with a metal bottom, so I put a towel in it for
warmth and comfort. I've had to switch towels about 6 times since Saturday
because they keep pooping on it. They also use the little litterbox I
put in there.

I've been feeding them Wellness chicken wet food, which was Jackie's
recommendation. They don't eat all of it, but they are apparently eating
enough, since their litterbox also has several poops in it. Another
suggestion from Jackie: a spoonful of pumpkin mixed in their wet food.
So I did that yesterday, also adding in some water, because I'm worried
they're getting dehydrated. But a few hours later I had to change the
towel again because they had more diarrhea, which was a lot more liquid
than previous times. That seems like it's getting worse, not better.

The other thing I've been giving them is KMR (a kitten milk formula for
kittens who've been weaned too soon). I'm wondering if that's what giving
them the runs. It's very rich.

Anyway, I called Jackie yesterday with a report about their health, and
that's when she suggested the pumpkin. I guess I should call her again
today to tell her that it might be getting worse. Poor babies. Their butts
are also really enflamed and red and look very sore. I put some petroleum
jelly on them for that - hope it helps.

Despite all this, they seem lively and alert. They clamor for attention
whenever I come into the room. (They're shut away from Licky and Roxy for
the time being.) As I said, they're very playful and seem to have a lot
of energy. They keep biting each other's necks - practicing the killing
bite, no doubt. And they're very curious, but I'm not letting them
explore the bedroom yet because they're still a bit uncoordinated
(they're only 5 weeks old) and I don't want anyone to get hurt. The
bedroom isn't exactly kitten-proof. Also, I don't want to discover a
puddle of diarrhea on my carpet or bed.

If anyone has other suggestions for dealing with kitten diarrhea, please
let me know. I know it can be very dangerous, so I'm watching carefully -
although to be honest, I can't tell whether the fur on the back of their
neck goes down slowly or quickly when I pick it up. They're both small
and fuzzy, so it's hard to see something that subtle. But I'm wondering
if they should get subq fluids, or if there's something else I can try.
Of course, I'm not going to do anything without Jackie's OK, since she's
far more experienced with such young kittens, and I wouldn't want to do
something inadvertently harmful.

Meanwhile, R & L seem to be on a hunger strike of sorts. I guess they're
stressed about the kittens. They do eat a little, but I've been tossing
out a lot of leftovers from their plates in the past couple of days. I
think I'm going to have to buy them some low-end cat food - aka kitty
McDonald's. It's not health food, but they *do* eat it. I hope the kittens
get over their diarrhea soon, so I can begin introductions. I'm not sure
how long I'll have these kittens - it could be several weeks or a few
months. I'd like to be able to let them have the run of the house when
they get a little bigger.

--
Joyce

Beauty and music seduce us first; later, ashamed of our own
sensuality, we insist on meaning. -- Clive Barker

On 10/31/2011 04:04 PM, wrote:
The two little babies are *adorable*. They're both Siamese/tabby mixes,
probably lilac point. They are very playful - all they want to do is
attack each other or me. I think I've taught them not to bite hard,
which they were doing at first. Each time they bit hard enough to cause
pain, I made a somewhat loud, high-pitched noise. Each time I did that,
they stopped at looked at me in surprise. But now I notice that when
they play-bite me, they're both very gentle. I should probably train
them not to scratch, but that's a harder sell, since that's the main
thing they do when playing! My arms and hands are covered with tiny
kitten scratches.

I am worried about them in one way - they've both had diarrhea since
Saturday. Jackie, my contact from the rescue group, says that it's because
they suddenly had to go from mother's milk to solid food, and their
digestive systems are trying to adjust. I hope that's all it is. I have
them in a large cage with a metal bottom, so I put a towel in it for
warmth and comfort. I've had to switch towels about 6 times since Saturday
because they keep pooping on it. They also use the little litterbox I
put in there.

I've been feeding them Wellness chicken wet food, which was Jackie's
recommendation. They don't eat all of it, but they are apparently eating
enough, since their litterbox also has several poops in it. Another
suggestion from Jackie: a spoonful of pumpkin mixed in their wet food.
So I did that yesterday, also adding in some water, because I'm worried
they're getting dehydrated. But a few hours later I had to change the
towel again because they had more diarrhea, which was a lot more liquid
than previous times. That seems like it's getting worse, not better.

The other thing I've been giving them is KMR (a kitten milk formula for
kittens who've been weaned too soon). I'm wondering if that's what giving
them the runs. It's very rich.

Anyway, I called Jackie yesterday with a report about their health, and
that's when she suggested the pumpkin. I guess I should call her again
today to tell her that it might be getting worse. Poor babies. Their butts
are also really enflamed and red and look very sore. I put some petroleum
jelly on them for that - hope it helps.

Despite all this, they seem lively and alert. They clamor for attention
whenever I come into the room. (They're shut away from Licky and Roxy for
the time being.) As I said, they're very playful and seem to have a lot
of energy. They keep biting each other's necks - practicing the killing
bite, no doubt. And they're very curious, but I'm not letting them
explore the bedroom yet because they're still a bit uncoordinated
(they're only 5 weeks old) and I don't want anyone to get hurt. The
bedroom isn't exactly kitten-proof. Also, I don't want to discover a
puddle of diarrhea on my carpet or bed.

If anyone has other suggestions for dealing with kitten diarrhea, please
let me know. I know it can be very dangerous, so I'm watching carefully -
although to be honest, I can't tell whether the fur on the back of their
neck goes down slowly or quickly when I pick it up. They're both small
and fuzzy, so it's hard to see something that subtle. But I'm wondering
if they should get subq fluids, or if there's something else I can try.
Of course, I'm not going to do anything without Jackie's OK, since she's
far more experienced with such young kittens, and I wouldn't want to do
something inadvertently harmful.

Meanwhile, R& L seem to be on a hunger strike of sorts. I guess they're
stressed about the kittens. They do eat a little, but I've been tossing
out a lot of leftovers from their plates in the past couple of days. I
think I'm going to have to buy them some low-end cat food - aka kitty
McDonald's. It's not health food, but they *do* eat it. I hope the kittens
get over their diarrhea soon, so I can begin introductions. I'm not sure
how long I'll have these kittens - it could be several weeks or a few
months. I'd like to be able to let them have the run of the house when
they get a little bigger.


FYI I remember two posters complaining about the quality of Wellness
food (can't remember who). I certainly hope it clears up soon. Best
wishes. MLB

MLB wrote:

FYI I remember two posters complaining about the quality of Wellness
food (can't remember who). I certainly hope it clears up soon. Best
wishes. MLB

Heh - I was one of them. But that's what the rescue group prefers to
use. I can't think of anything that's any better, or safer for little
kittens.

--
Joyce

The sun rose slowly, like a fiery furball coughed up uneasily onto a
sky-blue carpet by a giant unseen cat. -- Michael McGarel

wrote
MLB wrote:

FYI I remember two posters complaining about the quality of Wellness
food (can't remember who). I certainly hope it clears up soon. Best
wishes. MLB

Heh - I was one of them. But that's what the rescue group prefers to
use. I can't think of anything that's any better, or safer for little
kittens.

Try kitten kibble.

Pat wrote:


wrote
MLB wrote:

FYI I remember two posters complaining about the quality of Wellness
food (can't remember who). I certainly hope it clears up soon. Best
wishes. MLB

Heh - I was one of them. But that's what the rescue group prefers to
use. I can't think of anything that's any better, or safer for little
kittens.

Try kitten kibble.

I have that, too. But they don't seem that interested in it. But I
guess I'll try it again.

Tonight they seemed a bit better than they did this morning, at least!

--
Joyce

Mother teach me to walk again
Milk and honey, so intoxicating -- Sarah McLaughlin

On Oct 31, 10:58*pm, wrote:
Pat wrote:

* wrote* MLB wrote:

*
* FYI *I remember two posters complaining about the quality of Wellness
* food (can't remember who). *I certainly hope it clears up soon. *Best
* wishes. *MLB
*
* Heh - I was one of them. But that's what the rescue group prefers to
* use. I can't think of anything that's any better, or safer for little
* kittens.

* Try kitten kibble.

I have that, too. But they don't seem that interested in it. But I
guess I'll try it again.

The last thing you want to do is give them dry food. It is not an
appropriate diet for a carnivore and giving kittens foods that contain
grains and other ingredients they are not physiologically designed to
eat can exacerbate the problem and also will keep them dehydrated. The
moisture content of dry food is 8 times less than that of canned food
and cats do not drink enough water to make up for the loss. Please
read http://www.catinfo.org for detailed information. I think your
best course of action is to get samples of the diarrhea and bring them
to the vet for testing. It is crucial to treat kittens with diarrhea
in a timely manner or they can go downhill quickly, and one can never
assume it is food related unless bacterial or parasitic causes have
been ruled out first.

On Oct 31, 5:04*pm, wrote:
The two little babies are *adorable*. They're both Siamese/tabby mixes,
probably lilac point. They are very playful - all they want to do is
attack each other or me. I think I've taught them not to bite hard,
which they were doing at first. Each time they bit hard enough to cause
pain, I made a somewhat loud, high-pitched noise. Each time I did that,
they stopped at looked at me in surprise. But now I notice that when
they play-bite me, they're both very gentle. I should probably train
them not to scratch, but that's a harder sell, since that's the main
thing they do when playing! My arms and hands are covered with tiny
kitten scratches.

I am worried about them in one way - they've both had diarrhea since
Saturday. Jackie, my contact from the rescue group, says that it's because
they suddenly had to go from mother's milk to solid food, and their
digestive systems are trying to adjust. I hope that's all it is. I have
them in a large cage with a metal bottom, so I put a towel in it for
warmth and comfort. I've had to switch towels about 6 times since Saturday
because they keep pooping on it. They also use the little litterbox I
put in there.

I've been feeding them Wellness chicken wet food, which was Jackie's
recommendation. They don't eat all of it, but they are apparently eating
enough, since their litterbox also has several poops in it. Another
suggestion from Jackie: a spoonful of pumpkin mixed in their wet food.
So I did that yesterday, also adding in some water, because I'm worried
they're getting dehydrated. But a few hours later I had to change the
towel again because they had more diarrhea, which was a lot more liquid
than previous times. That seems like it's getting worse, not better.

The other thing I've been giving them is KMR (a kitten milk formula for
kittens who've been weaned too soon). I'm wondering if that's what giving
them the runs. It's very rich.

Anyway, I called Jackie yesterday with a report about their health, and
that's when she suggested the pumpkin. I guess I should call her again
today to tell her that it might be getting worse. Poor babies. Their butts
are also really enflamed and red and look very sore. I put some petroleum
jelly on them for that - hope it helps.

Despite all this, they seem lively and alert. They clamor for attention
whenever I come into the room. (They're shut away from Licky and Roxy for
the time being.) As I said, they're very playful and seem to have a lot
of energy. They keep biting each other's necks - practicing the killing
bite, no doubt. And they're very curious, but I'm not letting them
explore the bedroom yet because they're still a bit uncoordinated
(they're only 5 weeks old) and I don't want anyone to get hurt. The
bedroom isn't exactly kitten-proof. Also, I don't want to discover a
puddle of diarrhea on my carpet or bed.

If anyone has other suggestions for dealing with kitten diarrhea, please
let me know. I know it can be very dangerous, so I'm watching carefully -
although to be honest, I can't tell whether the fur on the back of their
neck goes down slowly or quickly when I pick it up. They're both small
and fuzzy, so it's hard to see something that subtle. But I'm wondering
if they should get subq fluids, or if there's something else I can try.
Of course, I'm not going to do anything without Jackie's OK, since she's
far more experienced with such young kittens, and I wouldn't want to do
something inadvertently harmful.

Meanwhile, R & L seem to be on a hunger strike of sorts. I guess they're
stressed about the kittens. They do eat a little, but I've been tossing
out a lot of leftovers from their plates in the past couple of days. I
think I'm going to have to buy them some low-end cat food - aka kitty
McDonald's. It's not health food, but they *do* eat it. I hope the kittens
get over their diarrhea soon, so I can begin introductions. I'm not sure
how long I'll have these kittens - it could be several weeks or a few
months. I'd like to be able to let them have the run of the house when
they get a little bigger.

--
Joyce

Joyce, the biggest problem I had with raising orphans was diarrhea/
constipation. We
went from one extreme to the other. Diarrhea is fairly common in
kittens -- with the
stress, change in environment and change in diet especially. I don't
think there are
any magic words that you don't already know--keeping them hydrated is
the most
important thing.
If the pumpkin doesn't firm their stools *very soon*, I think Catlady
is right that a stool sample
would be a good idea. Coccidia is so common in shelter / rescue cats,
and even though
*they* are not symptomatic, they pass it to the kittens. Blood in the
stool is a sure sign,
but in the beginning stages, there may be no visible blood at all.
Kittens can go downhill
so quickly once they do get ill. That is the scary part.
Good luck with your babies.

Sherry

"Catlady" wrote
Pat wrote:
wrote:
Try kitten kibble.

I have that, too. But they don't seem that interested in it. But I
guess I'll try it again.

The last thing you want to do is give them dry food. It is not an
appropriate diet for a carnivore and giving kittens foods that contain
grains and other ingredients they are not physiologically designed to
eat can exacerbate the problem and also will keep them dehydrated.

---------------

OK... kitten kibble w/o grains. And moisten it.

On Nov 1, 12:56*am, "Pat" wrote:
"Catlady" wrote

Pat wrote:
wrote:
Try kitten kibble.

I have that, too. But they don't seem that interested in it. But I
guess I'll try it again.

The last thing you want to do is give them dry food. It is not an
appropriate diet for a carnivore and giving kittens foods that contain
grains and other ingredients they are not physiologically designed to
eat can exacerbate the problem and also will keep them dehydrated.

---------------

OK... kitten kibble w/o grains. And moisten it.

The idea of a "grain free" dry diet is a fallacy. They generally use
white potato as a substitute, which is just as innappropriate as a
diet for an obligate carnivore and also high on the glycemic index.
"Moistening" dry food is not going to bring the moisture content up to
reasonable numbers unless you pour a glass of water on it. And that
still does not make dry food remotely close to being an appropriate
diet for a cat, which again, is a CARNIVORE and has not evolved and is
not to designed to eat dry food! .The increased epidemics of obesity,
diabetes, kidney failure, and UTI's are a direct result of people
feeding dry food. While there are always going to be those that claim
their cats did "fine" on dry food for years, it is not any different
from people who smoke all their lives and don't get cancer. Just
because you ingest something and don't suffer effects from it does not
automatically mean it's not harmful. Someone whose cat "lived to be 20
and only ate Meow Mix" may very well have had a 25 year old cat if
they'd fed it a proper wet or raw diet free of grains.

"Catlady" wrote

The idea of a "grain free" dry diet is a fallacy. They generally use
white potato as a substitute, which is just as innappropriate as a
diet for an obligate carnivore and also high on the glycemic index.
"Moistening" dry food is not going to bring the moisture content up to
reasonable numbers unless you pour a glass of water on it. And that
still does not make dry food remotely close to being an appropriate
diet for a cat, which again, is a CARNIVORE and has not evolved and is
not to designed to eat dry food! .The increased epidemics of obesity,
diabetes, kidney failure, and UTI's are a direct result of people
feeding dry food. While there are always going to be those that claim
their cats did "fine" on dry food for years, it is not any different
from people who smoke all their lives and don't get cancer. Just
because you ingest something and don't suffer effects from it does not
automatically mean it's not harmful. Someone whose cat "lived to be 20
and only ate Meow Mix" may very well have had a 25 year old cat if
they'd fed it a proper wet or raw diet free of grains.

__________________


I was not suggesting a life-long diet of kibble, but rather using it for a
day or two as a means of stopping diarrhea. I've seen it happen.

Anyhow, Joyce if you're still reading, I'm dropping out of this thread. You
can always contact me if you wish.