Before commercial cat food.....

"Philip ®" wrote in message
nk.net...
In ,
Phil P. being of bellicose mind posted:
"Philip ®" wrote in message
nk.net...

I know... the FDA and OSHA references were pretty lame ... to
you.

LOL! You didn't happen to notice the quantities of ethoxyquin
used in the reports... did you...? Shucks! LOL!

Now, go find a *single* documented case of ethoxyquin-related
illness or death in a cat when ethoxyquin was used at the
recommended levels used in cat food....

I
like the 3rd link showing the inclusion of BHA / E by various
food forumulations and brand name. What say you?


That's the funny part about the "perils" of ethoxyquin scare
tactics that have been perpetuated by breeder newsletters and au
naturel fanatical cults... There isn't a *single* documented case
of ethoxyquin-related illness or death in a cat, when ethoxyquin
is used at the recommended levels, in the hundreds of millions of
cats and have eaten dry food preserved with ethoxyquin and in the
almost 30 years that ethoxyquin has been used in cat foods.

Gee, I could have sworn I said this about 100 times.... and still
no one has been able to produce a *single* documented case from a
peer-reviewed veterinary medical journal....

I have only been visiting here for less than two weeks

You might want to lurk for awhile or read the Google archives to get an idea
of the topics that have been disussed.


and, it was by
an invitation.

Gee, I wonder who invited you? !

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: "Philip ®" lid

Phil P. being of bellicose mind posted:
"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...

Very interesting articles, Philip.


LOL! You don't care where the information comes from, or if its
true or accurate, as long as it says what you want to hear! LOL!

I know... the FDA and OSHA references were pretty lame ... to you. I
like the 3rd link showing the inclusion of BHA / E by various food
forumulations and brand name. What say you?

I know what he'll say -

Of course you do! You read my posts - even though you claim you kill-filed
me! LOL! I've see you repeat information you've read in my posts -
information you never mentioned before I posted it! LOL! You're too
neurotic - obsessive and compulsive - not to read my posts! LOL!


"there's no peer reviewed blah blah blah." My concern
with these chemical preservatives is that there have been absolutely no
studies
done on cats,

Did you ever wonder *why* no EQ studies have been done in cats? Or are you
normally not that inquisiive and just blab out whatever pops in your mind
and sounds good to you?

I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but doncha think if
there was *any* evidence, *whatsoever*, in the almost *30* years that EQ has
been used in dry cat food, that even suggestted EQ was "dangerous", in the
quantities used in cat food, studies would have been done??? In the *~30
years* and hundreds of millions of cats that have eated dry food preserved
with EQ, there has *never* been a*single* documented case of
ethoxyquin-related illness or death in a cat to even suggest the need for a
specific study!

I think

That would be a change.... I would be a good idea if you actually did!

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: "Philip ®" lid

Phil P. being of bellicose mind posted:
"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...

Very interesting articles, Philip.


LOL! You don't care where the information comes from, or if its
true or accurate, as long as it says what you want to hear! LOL!

I know... the FDA and OSHA references were pretty lame ... to you. I
like the 3rd link showing the inclusion of BHA / E by various food
forumulations and brand name. What say you?

I know what he'll say -

Of course you do! You read my posts - even though you claim you kill-filed
me! LOL! I've see you repeat information you've read in my posts -
information you never mentioned before I posted it! LOL! You're too
neurotic - obsessive and compulsive - not to read my posts! LOL!


"there's no peer reviewed blah blah blah." My concern
with these chemical preservatives is that there have been absolutely no
studies
done on cats,

Did you ever wonder *why* no EQ studies have been done in cats? Or are you
normally not that inquisiive and just blab out whatever pops in your mind
and sounds good to you?

I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but doncha think if
there was *any* evidence, *whatsoever*, in the almost *30* years that EQ has
been used in dry cat food, that even suggestted EQ was "dangerous", in the
quantities used in cat food, studies would have been done??? In the *~30
years* and hundreds of millions of cats that have eated dry food preserved
with EQ, there has *never* been a*single* documented case of
ethoxyquin-related illness or death in a cat to even suggest the need for a
specific study!

I think

That would be a change.... I would be a good idea if you actually did!

Further we quit classifying animals as carnivore, omnivore,
herbivore based upon teeth in the middle of the last century. Science
has advanced a long way and we now classify these differences based
upon the ability, or lack of ability, of an animal to manufacture
specific amino acids. Cats as obligate carnivores are unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants. That is
not true of the dog which can actually live quite well on a purely
vegetarian diet. They can manufacture every amino acid needed from
vegetable materials. Dogs are not carnivores, they are clasified as
omnivores based upon this ability.

That is quite interesting. Cats at or over 7 years of age are
considered geriatric. If today they are living past their thirties, It
would be similar to consider a 25-year-old person geriatric. This
information is opposite to what I read in many veterinary sites
though. It is also opposite to what Phil stated in the past.
Furthermore, the incidence of chronic disease has increased
dramatically over the last two decades. One could argue that chronic
disease comes with age. If cats are living longer, they are expected
to have chronic diseases. Yet I´ve seen cats in this newsgroup with
renal failure at 5 years of age, senile diabetes at 3 years of age,
etc. I wonder how many people read this newsgroup and how many have
cats 20+. I for one would *love* to talk to people who have 20+
year-old healthy cats and know how they have been cared for. Diseases
that are unrelated to age, for example, urinary uroliths, became
common when in the past they were rare. Calcium oxalate stones today
are common and 20 years ago they were rare.

In the above paragraph, you said "cats as obligate carnivores are
unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants" but I´m
sure you meant meats instead of plants. Yet this concept is too
simplistic to classify the dietary requirements of animals. Humans and
dogs, although omnivores, cannot survive on plants alone. I believe
this is true for every omnivore. What omnivore really means is that
part of the diet can be composed of plants. We have the necessary
metabolic pathways to make good use of sugars while strict carnivores
do not. We also have the necessary digestive apparatus to extract much
more from plants than strict carnivores. I know some people are strict
vegans but they could not survive on that diet without
supplementation.

Further we quit classifying animals as carnivore, omnivore,
herbivore based upon teeth in the middle of the last century. Science
has advanced a long way and we now classify these differences based
upon the ability, or lack of ability, of an animal to manufacture
specific amino acids. Cats as obligate carnivores are unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants. That is
not true of the dog which can actually live quite well on a purely
vegetarian diet. They can manufacture every amino acid needed from
vegetable materials. Dogs are not carnivores, they are clasified as
omnivores based upon this ability.

That is quite interesting. Cats at or over 7 years of age are
considered geriatric. If today they are living past their thirties, It
would be similar to consider a 25-year-old person geriatric. This
information is opposite to what I read in many veterinary sites
though. It is also opposite to what Phil stated in the past.
Furthermore, the incidence of chronic disease has increased
dramatically over the last two decades. One could argue that chronic
disease comes with age. If cats are living longer, they are expected
to have chronic diseases. Yet I´ve seen cats in this newsgroup with
renal failure at 5 years of age, senile diabetes at 3 years of age,
etc. I wonder how many people read this newsgroup and how many have
cats 20+. I for one would *love* to talk to people who have 20+
year-old healthy cats and know how they have been cared for. Diseases
that are unrelated to age, for example, urinary uroliths, became
common when in the past they were rare. Calcium oxalate stones today
are common and 20 years ago they were rare.

In the above paragraph, you said "cats as obligate carnivores are
unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants" but I´m
sure you meant meats instead of plants. Yet this concept is too
simplistic to classify the dietary requirements of animals. Humans and
dogs, although omnivores, cannot survive on plants alone. I believe
this is true for every omnivore. What omnivore really means is that
part of the diet can be composed of plants. We have the necessary
metabolic pathways to make good use of sugars while strict carnivores
do not. We also have the necessary digestive apparatus to extract much
more from plants than strict carnivores. I know some people are strict
vegans but they could not survive on that diet without
supplementation.

From: (Liz)


Further we quit classifying animals as carnivore, omnivore,
herbivore based upon teeth in the middle of the last century. Science
has advanced a long way and we now classify these differences based
upon the ability, or lack of ability, of an animal to manufacture
specific amino acids. Cats as obligate carnivores are unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants. That is
not true of the dog which can actually live quite well on a purely
vegetarian diet. They can manufacture every amino acid needed from
vegetable materials. Dogs are not carnivores, they are clasified as
omnivores based upon this ability.

That is quite interesting. Cats at or over 7 years of age are
considered geriatric. If today they are living past their thirties, It
would be similar to consider a 25-year-old person geriatric. This
information is opposite to what I read in many veterinary sites
though. It is also opposite to what Phil stated in the past.
Furthermore, the incidence of chronic disease has increased
dramatically over the last two decades. One could argue that chronic
disease comes with age. If cats are living longer, they are expected
to have chronic diseases. Yet I´ve seen cats in this newsgroup with
renal failure at 5 years of age, senile diabetes at 3 years of age,
etc. I wonder how many people read this newsgroup and how many have
cats 20+. I for one would *love* to talk to people who have 20+
year-old healthy cats and know how they have been cared for. Diseases
that are unrelated to age, for example, urinary uroliths, became
common when in the past they were rare. Calcium oxalate stones today
are common and 20 years ago they were rare.

Yes, I've seen a lot of people with sick animals post in this newsgroup, and
unfortunately quite a few seem too young to have these diseases. As to 20+
year old cats, we have some in my raw diet group. These are cats that have
been on a raw diet long term.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (Liz)


Further we quit classifying animals as carnivore, omnivore,
herbivore based upon teeth in the middle of the last century. Science
has advanced a long way and we now classify these differences based
upon the ability, or lack of ability, of an animal to manufacture
specific amino acids. Cats as obligate carnivores are unable to
manufacture some amino acids that can only be found in plants. That is
not true of the dog which can actually live quite well on a purely
vegetarian diet. They can manufacture every amino acid needed from
vegetable materials. Dogs are not carnivores, they are clasified as
omnivores based upon this ability.

That is quite interesting. Cats at or over 7 years of age are
considered geriatric. If today they are living past their thirties, It
would be similar to consider a 25-year-old person geriatric. This
information is opposite to what I read in many veterinary sites
though. It is also opposite to what Phil stated in the past.
Furthermore, the incidence of chronic disease has increased
dramatically over the last two decades. One could argue that chronic
disease comes with age. If cats are living longer, they are expected
to have chronic diseases. Yet I´ve seen cats in this newsgroup with
renal failure at 5 years of age, senile diabetes at 3 years of age,
etc. I wonder how many people read this newsgroup and how many have
cats 20+. I for one would *love* to talk to people who have 20+
year-old healthy cats and know how they have been cared for. Diseases
that are unrelated to age, for example, urinary uroliths, became
common when in the past they were rare. Calcium oxalate stones today
are common and 20 years ago they were rare.

Yes, I've seen a lot of people with sick animals post in this newsgroup, and
unfortunately quite a few seem too young to have these diseases. As to 20+
year old cats, we have some in my raw diet group. These are cats that have
been on a raw diet long term.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (Liz)

And since you like journals and peer reviewed studies so much,
get the first issue of December 2002´ of The American Journal of
Veterinary Medicine Association and read the article called "The
Carnivore Connection to Nutrition in Cats" by Dr. Debra Doran, DVM,
PhD, DACVIM. Btw, it´s the link Karen posted to Cheryl.

I'll make it easy for him, LOL:

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/feedingyourcat.html

This is an article by Dr. Lisa Pierson. She visited this newsgroup in the
recent past, but perhaps it was before you started posting here, Liz. Phil,
acting in his normal asshole mode, drove Dr. Pierson off. She is a busy vet
and I don't blame her for not wanting to deal with the b.s. Anyway, Dr.
Zoran's article is linked at the bottom, as well as a couple of other articles.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (Liz)

And since you like journals and peer reviewed studies so much,
get the first issue of December 2002´ of The American Journal of
Veterinary Medicine Association and read the article called "The
Carnivore Connection to Nutrition in Cats" by Dr. Debra Doran, DVM,
PhD, DACVIM. Btw, it´s the link Karen posted to Cheryl.

I'll make it easy for him, LOL:

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/feedingyourcat.html

This is an article by Dr. Lisa Pierson. She visited this newsgroup in the
recent past, but perhaps it was before you started posting here, Liz. Phil,
acting in his normal asshole mode, drove Dr. Pierson off. She is a busy vet
and I don't blame her for not wanting to deal with the b.s. Anyway, Dr.
Zoran's article is linked at the bottom, as well as a couple of other articles.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (Liz)

Phil, I have great news for you. To make you, myself, and probably
everyone in this newsgroup happy, I will no longer read or reply to
your posts (or those of your parrot Gaubster).

Good idea, Liz. Phil is a waste of time. He just doesn't get it and he never
will. He'd rather feed his cats poison in a bag then give them appropriate
fresh food, or even a better brand of commercial food. The unfortunate part
though is even if you put him in your killfile, parts of his posts end up in
replies.
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm