HELP HELP HELP!!

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
CatNipped wrote:
A little over a month now - but I miss my Sammy girl! :

My advice would be to give them time, a lot more time. New dynamics need
to be formed and a new hierarchy established. These things take time, you
know how cats abhor change.
Luna would be the happiest cat if she were an only child. But I can't
imagine our lives without her or without any of the other 6.

Do you think Sammy may eventually come out and be my companion again? I'm
afraid that she won't - Demi never did (remember how she ran from everyone
in a total panic when you and Tom visited?). I am just truly heartbroken
without her company.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Lori I agree with Victor you have to give them time. Remember stress
effects them all in different ways. Don't be surprised that one day you are
not looking and all of them are all curled up together,
Yes I think Sammy will just be patient
I remember when each of the furballs were brought into the house. When
Ka'shay was brought home Spirit would not leave her alone. Rumble would
have nothing to do with me and would hiss at me if I had her smell on me and
run away. It took time now all one happy family

On Jul 23, 9:46 am, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message

...

CatNipped wrote:
A little over a month now - but I miss my Sammy girl! :

My advice would be to give them time, a lot more time. New dynamics need
to be formed and a new hierarchy established. These things take time, you
know how cats abhor change.
Luna would be the happiest cat if she were an only child. But I can't
imagine our lives without her or without any of the other 6.

Do you think Sammy may eventually come out and be my companion again? I'm
afraid that she won't - Demi never did (remember how she ran from everyone
in a total panic when you and Tom visited?). I am just truly heartbroken
without her company.

I hate to be the one who says it but Tayla would probably do better
and YOUR lot would do better if she were in a one-cat household. Oddly
enough, the bitties are not the main reason I say this. She probably
isn't trying to hurt them, not seriously. What an adult cat could do
to a kitten is ugly and she has not done any real damage, given
repeated opportunities. I would say shes is being restrained. The
trauma they suffer won't keep them from getting along with other cats,
although they will quickly learn to avoid her. She sounds extremely
adoptable, even in kitten season, and you miss your Sammy and your
Sammy must miss you and certainly deserves better than to be driven
into hiding. Bite the bullet and give her back. My opinion, only, of
course.

Will in New Haven

--



Hugs,

CatNipped





--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he - Hide quoted text -

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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
Tayla is the most affectionate cat I've ever had... she throws herself all
over you and rubs her little face all over yours, giving nose kisses and
purring. But...

I just don't know if we'll be able to keep her. The yowling and chasing
and posturing with Demi, Jessie and Sammy are expected and that's not what
I'm worried about.

CN, you really should be worried about this, and you need to take steps to
stop it because this is where the problem is starting. If I remember
correctly, Tayla was adopted by herself. Bringing her into your home with
other cats and the kittens is overwhelming for her, but that's because this
is all "new" to her. Remember, you are doing multiple introductions at the
same time. Give her a break and put her in a room of her own for awhile.
Make sure it is in a place where she will get plenty of attention (not some
place where she will feel isolated), but it should be some place where she
can be apart from the kittens. After awhile, when you do start the
reintroduction, you need to take it very slow (and use the screen door that
you described for one of the other readers on this NG).

It's her behavior with the kittens. Ben told me she was "rough" with the
kittens, but I hadn't seen what he was talking about until today - I just
thought she was holding them down to lick them. Ozzy was laying on the
back of my couch and Tayla jumped up next to him and started licking him.
Then, out of the blue, she started growling, hissing, biting and scratching
him. He went totally limp, so there wasn't any physical damage - I
squirted the heck out of Tayla until she jumped down. Then about half an
hour later Ozzy and Archer were laying in the same spot and Tayla did the
same thing, savagely (to me) attacking them for no reason.


I know your intentions are good, but I think you have made a serious mistake
by squirting Tayla. Several people on this newsgroup use that technique, but
it is counterproductive. In fact, it is abusive, although I know you did not
intend it that way. What has happened is that Tayla now associates the
kittens with being squirted with water. Think about it: She only gets
sprayed when you are with the kittens, so she blames them for the result -
and now she is taking it out on them. Just like the old idea of rubbing an
animal's nose in its feces when it has an accident (which is wrong and
cruel), using a spray bottle is ineffective. What you're doing with the
spray bottle is creating a fear-based relationship, and that's not what you
want. In 42 years of living with and loving cats, I have never used a squirt
bottle and would never do so. Distraction is the first and most effective
technique. I have been thinking about this with reference to Duffy. Even
thinking about Duffy being squirted brings me to tears. It's true that water
will not physically harm a cat, but it can be traumatizing - and that is
just as bad as physical harm. Think about your own words: You "squirted the
heck out of Tayla." Surely you do not want her to feel frightened and
intimidated, but that's what this technique does. It is actually abusive and
cruel, and once again, I know that is not what you intend but that is what
happens.

Please read this very sensible article for some additional information:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...ndcatbehavior1

Tayla is already in a new, strange environment. She has already been
abandoned, and she probably is fearful. So, you need to slow down and start
over again. Give her whatever time she needs, even if it's months. To do
anything less is unfair to this poor cat.


Granted there wasn't any blood that I could see, but were I a kitten this
would have been *REALLY* traumatic for me to go through. Does anyone
know what might be causing this? Could it be that she just had her own
kittens taken away from her that eliciting this kind of behavior? Since
there's no blood should I not worry about this or is this something I need
to really worry about (as if I ever needed an excuse to worry)?! She has
never been alone and unsupervised with any other cat, and at this point I
don't know if I could go to work with her loose in the house with
everybody else!

I do have the option of returning her to the no-kill rescue that we
adopted her from (in fact I had to sign a contract saying that if I ever
wanted to part with her we *HAD* to bring her back there). But man, I
would really, really hate doing this. On the other hand, I have Jessie
traumatized, Sammy fighting with Jessie, and the possibility of Tayla
doing some real damage to the kittens.

Since this is what's happening, it seems that you have done "too much too
fast." A proper introduction really does take time, and that is compounded
in a multi-cat introduction -- especially with different ages involved.

--
MaryL

There was a notation on her adoption papers that she went ballistic around
dogs - there was nothing at all about her behavior around other cats.

As sweet as she is to humans, I think she would make a perfect "only cat",
but I just don't know if she'll ever be safe around other cats. On the
other hand, being an adult cat during kitten season I have a feeling she
would not be adopted for a long, long time.

Please, can anybody help me with this?



--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
. ..

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
Tayla is the most affectionate cat I've ever had... she throws herself
all over you and rubs her little face all over yours, giving nose kisses
and purring. But...

I just don't know if we'll be able to keep her. The yowling and chasing
and posturing with Demi, Jessie and Sammy are expected and that's not
what I'm worried about.

CN, you really should be worried about this, and you need to take steps to
stop it because this is where the problem is starting. If I remember
correctly, Tayla was adopted by herself. Bringing her into your home with
other cats and the kittens is overwhelming for her, but that's because
this is all "new" to her. Remember, you are doing multiple introductions
at the same time. Give her a break and put her in a room of her own for
awhile. Make sure it is in a place where she will get plenty of attention
(not some place where she will feel isolated), but it should be some place
where she can be apart from the kittens. After awhile, when you do start
the reintroduction, you need to take it very slow (and use the screen door
that you described for one of the other readers on this NG).

It's her behavior with the kittens. Ben told me she was "rough" with the
kittens, but I hadn't seen what he was talking about until today - I just
thought she was holding them down to lick them. Ozzy was laying on the
back of my couch and Tayla jumped up next to him and started licking him.
Then, out of the blue, she started growling, hissing, biting and
scratching him. He went totally limp, so there wasn't any physical
damage - I squirted the heck out of Tayla until she jumped down. Then
about half an hour later Ozzy and Archer were laying in the same spot and
Tayla did the same thing, savagely (to me) attacking them for no reason.


I know your intentions are good, but I think you have made a serious
mistake by squirting Tayla. Several people on this newsgroup use that
technique, but it is counterproductive. In fact, it is abusive, although I
know you did not intend it that way. What has happened is that Tayla now
associates the kittens with being squirted with water.

No, Tayla attacked the kittens many times before she first got squirted -
and she only got squirted because I was afraid she would hurt the kittens
and I didn't want to grab her away from them and get hurt myself. Yelling
and clapping my hands didn't distract her from growling, biting, and
scratching them. Both Ozzy and Archer were laying there totally limp, so
they weren't encouraging the continuation of the attack, and in fact had
done nothing to encourage the start of the attack since they were only
laying there sleeping when she jumped up next to them.

Think about it: She only gets sprayed when you are with the kittens, so
she blames them for the result - and now she is taking it out on them.
Just like the old idea of rubbing an animal's nose in its feces when it
has an accident (which is wrong and cruel), using a spray bottle is
ineffective. What you're doing with the spray bottle is creating a
fear-based relationship, and that's not what you want. In 42 years of
living with and loving cats, I have never used a squirt bottle and would
never do so. Distraction is the first and most effective technique. I have
been thinking about this with reference to Duffy. Even thinking about
Duffy being squirted brings me to tears. It's true that water will not
physically harm a cat, but it can be traumatizing - and that is just as
bad as physical harm.

In this instance I had the choice of squirting water on Tayla or allowing
her to possiby injure the kittens; and if I had the choice between one cat
bearing the trauma of a little water on her fur or two kittens physically
(and emotionally) traumatized with (possibly severe) physical injury, then
there really was no choice.

If it were only a matter of her being naughty and getting into something she
shouldn't or scratching someplace she shouldn't then I agree, squirting her
might not be called for. But realistically, traumatized by water is *NOT*
the same as kittens being mauled by a much larger cat.

Think about your own words: You "squirted the heck out of Tayla." Surely
you do not want her to feel frightened and intimidated, but that's what
this technique does. It is actually abusive and cruel, and once again, I
know that is not what you intend but that is what happens.

Please read this very sensible article for some additional information:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...ndcatbehavior1

Tayla is already in a new, strange environment. She has already been
abandoned, and she probably is fearful. So, you need to slow down and
start over again. Give her whatever time she needs, even if it's months.
To do anything less is unfair to this poor cat.

I am sympathetic to Tayla's needs, but I'm also balancing that with the
needs of 5 other cats. Unfortunately, I think her needs may be that she has
to be an only cat - and the other 5 cats need to be in a home where they
feel safe and not in an environment that makes them hide under the bed.

There is also my and Ben's needs to consider in this situation - both of us
are being deprived of our best buddy cats. I keep finding myself in tears
because I miss my Sammy, and it breaks my heart to know that she feels like
her formerly safe home is now a fearful and stressful environment. Even
keeping Tayla locked up in a separate room is not enough at this point to
undo the trauma that has already been done to my other cats - her scent in
our home is driving my other cats crazy. So I really can't imagine "months"
of this situation, it's just too stressful for everybody involved.

Hugs,

CatNipped



Granted there wasn't any blood that I could see, but were I a kitten this
would have been *REALLY* traumatic for me to go through. Does anyone
know what might be causing this? Could it be that she just had her own
kittens taken away from her that eliciting this kind of behavior? Since
there's no blood should I not worry about this or is this something I
need to really worry about (as if I ever needed an excuse to worry)?!
She has never been alone and unsupervised with any other cat, and at this
point I don't know if I could go to work with her loose in the house with
everybody else!

I do have the option of returning her to the no-kill rescue that we
adopted her from (in fact I had to sign a contract saying that if I ever
wanted to part with her we *HAD* to bring her back there). But man, I
would really, really hate doing this. On the other hand, I have Jessie
traumatized, Sammy fighting with Jessie, and the possibility of Tayla
doing some real damage to the kittens.

Since this is what's happening, it seems that you have done "too much too
fast." A proper introduction really does take time, and that is
compounded in a multi-cat introduction -- especially with different ages
involved.

--
MaryL

There was a notation on her adoption papers that she went ballistic around
dogs - there was nothing at all about her behavior around other cats.

As sweet as she is to humans, I think she would make a perfect "only
cat", but I just don't know if she'll ever be safe around other cats. On
the other hand, being an adult cat during kitten season I have a feeling
she would not be adopted for a long, long time.

Please, can anybody help me with this?



--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
. ..

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
Tayla is the most affectionate cat I've ever had... she throws herself
all over you and rubs her little face all over yours, giving nose kisses
and purring. But...

I just don't know if we'll be able to keep her. The yowling and chasing
and posturing with Demi, Jessie and Sammy are expected and that's not
what I'm worried about.

CN, you really should be worried about this, and you need to take steps
to stop it because this is where the problem is starting. If I remember
correctly, Tayla was adopted by herself. Bringing her into your home
with other cats and the kittens is overwhelming for her, but that's
because this is all "new" to her. Remember, you are doing multiple
introductions at the same time. Give her a break and put her in a room
of her own for awhile. Make sure it is in a place where she will get
plenty of attention (not some place where she will feel isolated), but it
should be some place where she can be apart from the kittens. After
awhile, when you do start the reintroduction, you need to take it very
slow (and use the screen door that you described for one of the other
readers on this NG).

It's her behavior with the kittens. Ben told me she was "rough" with the
kittens, but I hadn't seen what he was talking about until today - I just
thought she was holding them down to lick them. Ozzy was laying on the
back of my couch and Tayla jumped up next to him and started licking him.
Then, out of the blue, she started growling, hissing, biting and
scratching him. He went totally limp, so there wasn't any physical
damage - I squirted the heck out of Tayla until she jumped down. Then
about half an hour later Ozzy and Archer were laying in the same spot and
Tayla did the same thing, savagely (to me) attacking them for no reason.


I know your intentions are good, but I think you have made a serious
mistake by squirting Tayla. Several people on this newsgroup use that
technique, but it is counterproductive. In fact, it is abusive, although
I know you did not intend it that way. What has happened is that Tayla
now associates the kittens with being squirted with water.

No, Tayla attacked the kittens many times before she first got squirted -
and she only got squirted because I was afraid she would hurt the kittens
and I didn't want to grab her away from them and get hurt myself. Yelling
and clapping my hands didn't distract her from growling, biting, and
scratching them. Both Ozzy and Archer were laying there totally limp, so
they weren't encouraging the continuation of the attack, and in fact had
done nothing to encourage the start of the attack since they were only
laying there sleeping when she jumped up next to them.

Think about it: She only gets sprayed when you are with the kittens, so
she blames them for the result - and now she is taking it out on them.
Just like the old idea of rubbing an animal's nose in its feces when it
has an accident (which is wrong and cruel), using a spray bottle is
ineffective. What you're doing with the spray bottle is creating a
fear-based relationship, and that's not what you want. In 42 years of
living with and loving cats, I have never used a squirt bottle and would
never do so. Distraction is the first and most effective technique. I
have been thinking about this with reference to Duffy. Even thinking
about Duffy being squirted brings me to tears. It's true that water will
not physically harm a cat, but it can be traumatizing - and that is just
as bad as physical harm.

In this instance I had the choice of squirting water on Tayla or allowing
her to possiby injure the kittens; and if I had the choice between one cat
bearing the trauma of a little water on her fur or two kittens physically
(and emotionally) traumatized with (possibly severe) physical injury, then
there really was no choice.

If it were only a matter of her being naughty and getting into something
she shouldn't or scratching someplace she shouldn't then I agree,
squirting her might not be called for. But realistically, traumatized by
water is *NOT* the same as kittens being mauled by a much larger cat.

Think about your own words: You "squirted the heck out of Tayla." Surely
you do not want her to feel frightened and intimidated, but that's what
this technique does. It is actually abusive and cruel, and once again, I
know that is not what you intend but that is what happens.

Please read this very sensible article for some additional information:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...ndcatbehavior1

Tayla is already in a new, strange environment. She has already been
abandoned, and she probably is fearful. So, you need to slow down and
start over again. Give her whatever time she needs, even if it's months.
To do anything less is unfair to this poor cat.

I am sympathetic to Tayla's needs, but I'm also balancing that with the
needs of 5 other cats. Unfortunately, I think her needs may be that she
has to be an only cat - and the other 5 cats need to be in a home where
they feel safe and not in an environment that makes them hide under the
bed.

There is also my and Ben's needs to consider in this situation - both of
us are being deprived of our best buddy cats. I keep finding myself in
tears because I miss my Sammy, and it breaks my heart to know that she
feels like her formerly safe home is now a fearful and stressful
environment. Even keeping Tayla locked up in a separate room is not
enough at this point to undo the trauma that has already been done to my
other cats - her scent in our home is driving my other cats crazy. So I
really can't imagine "months" of this situation, it's just too stressful
for everybody involved.


Granted, taking a cat to a shelter, even a good one, even one she was in
very recently hurts. And feels like failure.

But realistically, Tayla isn't happy. She is unlikely to ever be happy
sharing her home with five other cats. Being feral for a while may have
just made her too protective of her territory. I know Molly would never
adapt to living in a clowder. Her terms include giving her a lot of space.

On the positive side, there is a very good likelihood that she could be very
happy somewhere else. She has a lot to give. Just not in what to her is a
competitive environment.

So taking her back is giving her the chance to be happy. At least that is
how I'd like to view it.

Jo

"jofirey" wrote in message
...

Granted, taking a cat to a shelter, even a good one, even one she was in
very recently hurts. And feels like failure.

But realistically, Tayla isn't happy. She is unlikely to ever be happy
sharing her home with five other cats. Being feral for a while may have
just made her too protective of her territory. I know Molly would never
adapt to living in a clowder. Her terms include giving her a lot of
space.

On the positive side, there is a very good likelihood that she could be
very happy somewhere else. She has a lot to give. Just not in what to
her is a competitive environment.

So taking her back is giving her the chance to be happy. At least that is
how I'd like to view it.

Jo

I also meant to mention that driving off weaned kittens can be perfectly
normal behavior for cats in the wild. Especially little boys. Only your
two have no place to esape to.

Jo

"jofirey" wrote in message
...

"jofirey" wrote in message
...

Granted, taking a cat to a shelter, even a good one, even one she was in
very recently hurts. And feels like failure.

But realistically, Tayla isn't happy. She is unlikely to ever be happy
sharing her home with five other cats. Being feral for a while may have
just made her too protective of her territory. I know Molly would never
adapt to living in a clowder. Her terms include giving her a lot of
space.

On the positive side, there is a very good likelihood that she could be
very happy somewhere else. She has a lot to give. Just not in what to
her is a competitive environment.

So taking her back is giving her the chance to be happy. At least that
is how I'd like to view it.

Jo

I also meant to mention that driving off weaned kittens can be perfectly
normal behavior for cats in the wild. Especially little boys. Only your
two have no place to esape to.

!!! I didn't think about that, but you may be right. Either that or it's
misdirected aggression because the adult cats can successfully run way from
her or turn on her if they're cornered. Unfortunately the kittens can't run
away fast enough or defend themselves, so they take the brunt of whatever
she cares to dish out.

Either way it's not a good situation and I'm desperately unhappy with it and
wishing we had never taken her home in the first place because now I'm
feeling like the biggest piece of $#!% in the entire universe for thinking
about taking her back! :

Hugs,

CatNipped


Jo

CatNipped wrote:
Do you think Sammy may eventually come out and be my companion again? I'm

It's impossible to predict what changes the introduction of new cats
will bring about in the personalities of the resident cats.
I will say this one last time though. You haven't given your cats nearly
enough time to adapt to the newcomers. It's your choice if you want to
return Tayla, but I do think it's very premature to label her as "an
only cat".


--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

jofirey wrote:
But realistically, Tayla isn't happy. She is unlikely to ever be happy
sharing her home with five other cats.

That's a very bold statement to make based on a few hours of actual
face-to-face interaction.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

"CatNipped" wrote:
!!! I didn't think about that, but you may be right. Either that or it's
misdirected aggression because the adult cats can successfully run way from
her or turn on her if they're cornered. Unfortunately the kittens can't run
away fast enough or defend themselves, so they take the brunt of whatever
she cares to dish out.

Either way it's not a good situation and I'm desperately unhappy with it and
wishing we had never taken her home in the first place because now I'm
feeling like the biggest piece of $#!% in the entire universe for thinking
about taking her back! :

I know hardly anything about kittens, but her behavior does sound
worrying. The only consolation there is that they will soon grow up
enough to be able to get away from her. I also hope that you'll get
your lapsammy back.