Sub-Qs for Cory

Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by me. I know
you've all said it's no big deal after the first couple of times so I hope you
are right. Tomorrow will be my first attempt.

Cory has been acting very tired and not eating much for about 3 days so I
called in sick today and took him to the vet. Unfortunately, the "real" vet is
vacationing in the Bahamas and I got the relief vet. All he did was give him
the fluids and do a UA and bloodwork, which is what I was planning on having
done anyway. I won't get the bloodwork results until tomorrow but meanwhile,
this vet said Cory should be on 250ml per day...daily. That seems really high
to me since we don't even know his BUN and creatinine yet. I know it won't
hurt to do it for a couple of days and he seems perkier already since getting
300ml at the vet but I'm surprised at this dosage...going from no sub-qs to
that high of a volume. I thought most cats got 100ml every other day or such.
I suppose it might just be a difference in the vet's philosophy and maybe when
the blood work results are back and the "real" vet reviews them, he will cut it
back. I kind of hope so. I hate to have to do it daily...for Cory's sake. Is
there a standard for how high the BUN and creatinine should be before going
sub-q and what the dose would be? It seems as though I read it once, at least
the point the values should be at before deciding to go that route.

I sure hope it works and that I will have my boy with me for a couple more
years...He's lost 2 pounds since September. I'm thinking he might also need
his tapazole adjusted. Who really knows what is causing his current problem;
hopefully the blood tests will give some answers. I guess I better go reread
Helen's website.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by me. I
know
you've all said it's no big deal after the first couple of times so I hope
you
are right. Tomorrow will be my first attempt.

I had maybe 6 lessons first, at the vets' - by both the vet & sometimes a
tech, if she was really busy. Each of the first 6 times or so debbie needed
fluids, I brought her to the vets' (only 4 min. form my house), & I'd get a
lesson.

My vet made me feel a whole lot better about the whole thing on my first try
(which actually took 2 tries, to get a correct stick; I completely missed
the first time!) by confessing that it took *her* 45 minutes just to get up
the nerve to get the needle into the cat on her first try, in vet school.
;-) Hey, it only took me about 5 minutes of standing there, needle in hand,
before taking the plunge. g

I can't remember - have you ever read Peter Gethers' last book about Norton,
& how he was absolutely petrified of the whole deal, & refused to do the
fluids for the longest time, taking Norton to the vet all of the time
instead? And then wound up sticking *himself* on an early try? g But
even he eventually was able to do it. ;-)

If your husband can help you (I'm pretty sure you're married, correct me if
not), it will make it a real piece of cake. My earliest problem - when
getting the lessons at the vets', was handling all of the stuff - the
tubing, cock-stop, bag, needle & its cover, the cat, etc. all w/ just my 2
hands. Rather like a tangle of spaghetti, as my vet put it. But after a
little while, even that was no prob - you hit a routine.

After a few weeks of giving the sub-Qs w/ no problems, all of a sudden, I
couldn't seem to get the needle in. I went back to the vet (w/ Debbie in
tow), explaining that it sounded stupid, but it felt like I was hitting a
wall, instead of mere skin. She said she's never exopereinced it herself,
but that lots of poeple who give fluids at home have come back to her saying
exactly the same thing. So, she gave me another lesson, & that was that -
no more probs.

Cory has been acting very tired and not eating much for about 3 days so I
called in sick today and took him to the vet. Unfortunately, the "real"
vet is
vacationing in the Bahamas and I got the relief vet. All he did was give
him
the fluids and do a UA and bloodwork, which is what I was planning on
having
done anyway. I won't get the bloodwork results until tomorrow but
meanwhile,
this vet said Cory should be on 250ml per day...daily.

That's a helluva lot of fluids, IMO! Esp. since he hasn't been on them,
until now. I can maybe see 100 - 150mL/day, but even more likely - unless
he's very dehydrated, 100 - 150mL 2 times/week to maybe every other day.

That seems really high
to me since we don't even know his BUN and creatinine yet. I know it
won't
hurt to do it for a couple of days and he seems perkier already since
getting
300ml at the vet but I'm surprised at this dosage...going from no sub-qs
to
that high of a volume.

Same here.

I thought most cats got 100ml every other day or such.

Yep. That was my experience, at any rate. IIRC, it was 100mL 2x/week, then
gradually upped as time went by & her numbers became worse, till it was 150
mL each day - I think. At the very end, 2X/day, but that was for a
relatively short time.

I suppose it might just be a difference in the vet's philosophy and maybe
when
the blood work results are back and the "real" vet reviews them, he will
cut it
back. I kind of hope so. I hate to have to do it daily...for Cory's
sake. Is
there a standard for how high the BUN and creatinine should be before
going
sub-q and what the dose would be? It seems as though I read it once, at
least
the point the values should be at before deciding to go that route.

I honestly don't know - would have to look it up. I also have a feeling that
there may be different schools of thought on the best regimen.

I sure hope it works and that I will have my boy with me for a couple more
years...He's lost 2 pounds since September. I'm thinking he might also
need
his tapazole adjusted. Who really knows what is causing his current
problem;
hopefully the blood tests will give some answers.

If his Tapazole needs adjusting, it should show up on the thyroid bw, & give
you direction. Good luck, w/ the whole scenario.

I guess I better go reread Helen's website.

Just what I was thinking! ;-)

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by me. I
know
you've all said it's no big deal after the first couple of times so I hope
you
are right. Tomorrow will be my first attempt.

I had maybe 6 lessons first, at the vets' - by both the vet & sometimes a
tech, if she was really busy. Each of the first 6 times or so debbie needed
fluids, I brought her to the vets' (only 4 min. form my house), & I'd get a
lesson.

My vet made me feel a whole lot better about the whole thing on my first try
(which actually took 2 tries, to get a correct stick; I completely missed
the first time!) by confessing that it took *her* 45 minutes just to get up
the nerve to get the needle into the cat on her first try, in vet school.
;-) Hey, it only took me about 5 minutes of standing there, needle in hand,
before taking the plunge. g

I can't remember - have you ever read Peter Gethers' last book about Norton,
& how he was absolutely petrified of the whole deal, & refused to do the
fluids for the longest time, taking Norton to the vet all of the time
instead? And then wound up sticking *himself* on an early try? g But
even he eventually was able to do it. ;-)

If your husband can help you (I'm pretty sure you're married, correct me if
not), it will make it a real piece of cake. My earliest problem - when
getting the lessons at the vets', was handling all of the stuff - the
tubing, cock-stop, bag, needle & its cover, the cat, etc. all w/ just my 2
hands. Rather like a tangle of spaghetti, as my vet put it. But after a
little while, even that was no prob - you hit a routine.

After a few weeks of giving the sub-Qs w/ no problems, all of a sudden, I
couldn't seem to get the needle in. I went back to the vet (w/ Debbie in
tow), explaining that it sounded stupid, but it felt like I was hitting a
wall, instead of mere skin. She said she's never exopereinced it herself,
but that lots of poeple who give fluids at home have come back to her saying
exactly the same thing. So, she gave me another lesson, & that was that -
no more probs.

Cory has been acting very tired and not eating much for about 3 days so I
called in sick today and took him to the vet. Unfortunately, the "real"
vet is
vacationing in the Bahamas and I got the relief vet. All he did was give
him
the fluids and do a UA and bloodwork, which is what I was planning on
having
done anyway. I won't get the bloodwork results until tomorrow but
meanwhile,
this vet said Cory should be on 250ml per day...daily.

That's a helluva lot of fluids, IMO! Esp. since he hasn't been on them,
until now. I can maybe see 100 - 150mL/day, but even more likely - unless
he's very dehydrated, 100 - 150mL 2 times/week to maybe every other day.

That seems really high
to me since we don't even know his BUN and creatinine yet. I know it
won't
hurt to do it for a couple of days and he seems perkier already since
getting
300ml at the vet but I'm surprised at this dosage...going from no sub-qs
to
that high of a volume.

Same here.

I thought most cats got 100ml every other day or such.

Yep. That was my experience, at any rate. IIRC, it was 100mL 2x/week, then
gradually upped as time went by & her numbers became worse, till it was 150
mL each day - I think. At the very end, 2X/day, but that was for a
relatively short time.

I suppose it might just be a difference in the vet's philosophy and maybe
when
the blood work results are back and the "real" vet reviews them, he will
cut it
back. I kind of hope so. I hate to have to do it daily...for Cory's
sake. Is
there a standard for how high the BUN and creatinine should be before
going
sub-q and what the dose would be? It seems as though I read it once, at
least
the point the values should be at before deciding to go that route.

I honestly don't know - would have to look it up. I also have a feeling that
there may be different schools of thought on the best regimen.

I sure hope it works and that I will have my boy with me for a couple more
years...He's lost 2 pounds since September. I'm thinking he might also
need
his tapazole adjusted. Who really knows what is causing his current
problem;
hopefully the blood tests will give some answers.

If his Tapazole needs adjusting, it should show up on the thyroid bw, & give
you direction. Good luck, w/ the whole scenario.

I guess I better go reread Helen's website.

Just what I was thinking! ;-)

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

MacCandace wrote in on
16 Feb 2004:

Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by
me. I know you've all said it's no big deal after the first couple of
times so I hope you are right. Tomorrow will be my first attempt.


snip
Good luck Candace and many purrs that you both get used to doing this. And
many purrs for Cory to be healthy and helped by the fluids.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II

MacCandace wrote in on
16 Feb 2004:

Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by
me. I know you've all said it's no big deal after the first couple of
times so I hope you are right. Tomorrow will be my first attempt.


snip
Good luck Candace and many purrs that you both get used to doing this. And
many purrs for Cory to be healthy and helped by the fluids.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II

Just what I was thinking! ;-)

Cathy

Thanks for the info, Cathy. I was hoping you would write. Yes, I do have a
husband and I'm sure he will help me...somewhat...but I would like to be able
to do it alone, if necessary, since he goes out of town once in awhile and I
would like him to be able to do it alone, too, since I'll be going out of town
in April for a week. Years ago, I used to be a pharmacy tech in a hospital so
I don't mind handling the bag or the needles or the tubing; it's just the
sticking part I'm going to mind. One time, about 20 years ago, I attempted to
give a poor stray kitty a vaccine, one of those OTC things, and the poor thing
shrieked. I've never attempted to jab anyone since.

I remember you writing that you took the bag to the cat instead of vice versa.
What did you hang it on? I've been looking around and there aren't many (or
any, really) places I can see to hang anything other than the shower rod and I
don't really want to do it in the bathroom. I'd like to do it somewhere comfy
for him. I wish I had an actual IV pole; I'm sure I could buy one if need be
but that seems drastic.

On Helen's website, it said sub-qs generally don't need to be started until the
creatinine hits 3.5-4. Last time he had bloodwork, it was only about 2.8 but,
like I said, he's lost 2 pounds. I'm pretty shocked about that because,
although he did feel lighter to me, I really couldn't see that. It's odd,
though, because he was his old chatty, happy self until Saturday. I guess I'll
just have to wait and see what is reavealed.

I just gave him 1/4 cyproheptadine to get him eating. He seems perkier but
still not hungry. That usually works so hope it does.

I sure didn't get the lessons you got, though. The vet tech just briely showed
me, I didn't try it myself, and that was that. They said they'd show me again
if I couldn't do it.

Thanks again for the info and the encouragment. And, no, I never read the last
Norton book. I read the first 2 but I just couldn't bring myself to read the
last even though you said it wasn't totally depressing.



Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

Just what I was thinking! ;-)

Cathy

Thanks for the info, Cathy. I was hoping you would write. Yes, I do have a
husband and I'm sure he will help me...somewhat...but I would like to be able
to do it alone, if necessary, since he goes out of town once in awhile and I
would like him to be able to do it alone, too, since I'll be going out of town
in April for a week. Years ago, I used to be a pharmacy tech in a hospital so
I don't mind handling the bag or the needles or the tubing; it's just the
sticking part I'm going to mind. One time, about 20 years ago, I attempted to
give a poor stray kitty a vaccine, one of those OTC things, and the poor thing
shrieked. I've never attempted to jab anyone since.

I remember you writing that you took the bag to the cat instead of vice versa.
What did you hang it on? I've been looking around and there aren't many (or
any, really) places I can see to hang anything other than the shower rod and I
don't really want to do it in the bathroom. I'd like to do it somewhere comfy
for him. I wish I had an actual IV pole; I'm sure I could buy one if need be
but that seems drastic.

On Helen's website, it said sub-qs generally don't need to be started until the
creatinine hits 3.5-4. Last time he had bloodwork, it was only about 2.8 but,
like I said, he's lost 2 pounds. I'm pretty shocked about that because,
although he did feel lighter to me, I really couldn't see that. It's odd,
though, because he was his old chatty, happy self until Saturday. I guess I'll
just have to wait and see what is reavealed.

I just gave him 1/4 cyproheptadine to get him eating. He seems perkier but
still not hungry. That usually works so hope it does.

I sure didn't get the lessons you got, though. The vet tech just briely showed
me, I didn't try it myself, and that was that. They said they'd show me again
if I couldn't do it.

Thanks again for the info and the encouragment. And, no, I never read the last
Norton book. I read the first 2 but I just couldn't bring myself to read the
last even though you said it wasn't totally depressing.



Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

Good luck Candace and many purrs that you both get used to doing this. And
many purrs for Cory to be healthy and helped by the fluids.

--
Cheryl

Thank you very much, Cheryl.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

Good luck Candace and many purrs that you both get used to doing this. And
many purrs for Cory to be healthy and helped by the fluids.

--
Cheryl

Thank you very much, Cheryl.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
Well, after almost 2 years of being diagnosed with CRF and hyper-t, my
soon-to-be 18 year old Cory has to get sub-q fluids administered by me.
....
Candace
Best wishes for an uneventful sub-q administration and that Cory will be
doing fine and with you at least a couple of years more.
Annie