OT - Suicide a Sin?

Christina Websell wrote:

"jmcquown" wrote in message

Depression isn't an excuse to kill yourself. There are medications (even
herbal OTC) to help with that. My LLL's father did the murder/suicide
thing. Shot his second wife then put the gun to his head. He was left to
deal with the consequences, including informing his mother her ex-husband
had killed his wife and himself. 30 years later he's still feeling
guilty, thinking he should have known his father needed help. Thinking
there should have been something he could have done. It's a horrible
thing to do to your family and friends. Which is what makes it morally
reprehesensible. IMHO, of course.

Unless you suffer from diagnosed depression yourself and understand it which
maybe you don't, awful things can happen with it as we just see in your
post.

Besides which, that guy committed murder, not just suicide. A different
thing entirely.

--
Joyce ^..^

To email me, remove the XXX from my user name.

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

(snippage)

I don't even want to know why you're asking.

A Sin? No. I'm not religious in any traditional sense of the word so
that word holds no meaning for me. Morally wrong? Absolutely.

Depression isn't an excuse to kill yourself. There are medications (even
herbal OTC) to help with that. My LLL's father did the murder/suicide
thing. Shot his second wife then put the gun to his head. He was left
to deal with the consequences, including informing his mother her
ex-husband had killed his wife and himself. 30 years later he's still
feeling guilty, thinking he should have known his father needed help.
Thinking there should have been something he could have done. It's a
horrible thing to do to your family and friends. Which is what makes it
morally reprehesensible. IMHO, of course.

Unless you suffer from diagnosed depression yourself and understand it
which maybe you don't, awful things can happen with it as we just see in
your post.

Tweed



I've been on medication for clinical depression since 2002 (and according to
my doctor probably should have been years before that). I would still never
consider putting my family and friends through what a suicide does to the
ones left behind.

Jill

Catholics believe that anyone committing suicide, since they don't
have the chance to be absolved of their sins by the Catholic Church,
will burn in everlasting hell - in unspeakable agony for all of
eternity. Well... that kind of puts a damper on thoughts of "ending
the pain", doesn't it?

The first girl I was in love with was a Catholic with schizophrenia.
She would have been torn apart with guilt anyway, that was one of the
main symptoms of her illness, but the Catholicism put her into even
worse binds. She had that dogma about suicide in her mind almost
all the time, and added to it the belief that was she was so sinful
she couldn't face going to confession either. She was *extremely*
intelligent, and any attempt to discuss the position she'd thought
herself into ended up like one of those dialogues in R.D. Laing's
"Knots".

Drugs and ECT did almost nothing for the schizophrenia, but she did
partially recover from the Catholicism after a while and was a lot
happier for it.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === http://www.campin.me.uk ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

"jmcquown" wrote in message

Depression isn't an excuse to kill yourself. There are medications
(even
herbal OTC) to help with that. My LLL's father did the murder/suicide
thing. Shot his second wife then put the gun to his head. He was left
to
deal with the consequences, including informing his mother her
ex-husband
had killed his wife and himself. 30 years later he's still feeling
guilty, thinking he should have known his father needed help. Thinking
there should have been something he could have done. It's a horrible
thing to do to your family and friends. Which is what makes it morally
reprehesensible. IMHO, of course.

Unless you suffer from diagnosed depression yourself and understand it
which
maybe you don't, awful things can happen with it as we just see in your
post.

Besides which, that guy committed murder, not just suicide. A different
thing entirely.

--
Joyce ^..^


Yeah, he killed his wife which made the situation even worse. But his son
was the one left to deal with it. Even if he hadn't remarried, suicide is
not the answer to life's problems. The grief he left behind was not
pleasant.

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...



I've been on medication for clinical depression since 2002 (and according
to my doctor probably should have been years before that). I would still
never consider putting my family and friends through what a suicide does
to the ones left behind.

Lucky you.

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe
that anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be
absolved of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting
hell - in unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of
puts a damper on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is
probably the vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason
I'm alive right now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing
considering the constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much
mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place where
we could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping we can
retain a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion into a
war thread.



I'm Catholic, too, but I also know that a lot of Catholic children have
received absolutely miserable Catholic educations from thoroughly uninformed
crazy people. This seems to be part and parcel of Catholicism,
unfortunately, and I can say that because I am one. I received a very nutty
Catholic education from women whose sole purpose seemed to be scaring the
bejesus (and I mean that word!) out of children.

This is what I have come to believe-- the Church has sacraments which
Catholics are supposed to receive, including absolution from a priest. This
is misunderstood by many non-Catholics (and Catholics) as a kind of moral
"Get out of jail free" card, but absolution really only comes from God. And
only God knows what is truly in your heart. A loving God would not send his
child, made in his image, to eternal suffering, on a technicality, a
"gotcha."


--
Theresa and Dante

Stinky Forever: http://pets.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

"CatEyes" wrote in
:

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place
where we could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping
we can retain a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this
discussion into a war thread.

Sorry, but I've seen too much chastisement for politics threads to
participate in anything the slightest bit controversial here. I'm going
back to the cat threads.

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
"MLB" wrote in message
...
CatEyes wrote:
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an
"irony meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can
absolve someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants
believe that only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after
death, so suicide isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But
Catholics believe that anyone committing suicide, since they don't have
the chance to be absolved of their sins by the Catholic Church, will
burn in everlasting hell - in unspeakable agony for all of eternity.
Well.... that kind of puts a damper on thoughts of "ending the pain",
doesn't it? I think it is probably the vestiges of that Catholic
upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive right now (and, right now,
being alive *isn't* a good thing considering the constant pain I'm in,
so thank you oh so very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place
where we could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping
we can retain a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion
into a war thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

===
Suicide has been defined as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
mlb

Not being snarky, but my pain isn't temporary - it's real, it's physical,
and it's going to be with me every second of the day, 24/7, for the rest
of my life. Pain killers don't really give any relief because the body
becomes tolerant and they stop working. And even if they did, the FDA and
the DEA are both on a special campaign in the "war on drugs" to make sure
that opiate pain killers are taken off the market as soon as possible (and
they're sending doctors to prison left and right so more doctors are
becoming to afraid to even prescribe them any more). They've order 13
drug companies to take pain meds off the market because they haven't been
"FDA Approved" (because they've been used since before there was an FDA).

Hugs,

CatNipped

My church doesn't believe in sin, as usually defined. My pastor believes
that what many churches define as sin is something that needs to be healed.
I don't think anyone has a right to make such a decision for someone else.

It is true, that suicide can cause pain to those who are left behind.
However, if the person was in constant pain, there must also be a sense of
relief that the person is no longer suffering. I wouldn't presume to tell
you what you should or shouldn't do.

Joy

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
"CatEyes" wrote in message
...

Not being snarky, but my pain isn't temporary - it's real, it's
physical, and it's going to be with me every second of the day, 24/7,
for the rest of my life. Pain killers don't really give any relief
because the body becomes tolerant and they stop working. And even if
they did, the FDA and the DEA are both on a special campaign in the "war
on drugs" to make sure that opiate pain killers are taken off the market
as soon as possible (and they're sending doctors to prison left and
right so more doctors are becoming to afraid to even prescribe them any
more). They've order 13 drug companies to take pain meds off the market
because they haven't been "FDA Approved" (because they've been used
since before there was an FDA).


I wonder if you could find and participate in a clinical trial for new
pain medications? My mom was in one for her balance problem, and she was
able to drop out at any time if she experienced any side effects that
were uncomfortable to her. I found this page for resource for you, too.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149283.php

And more specifically, here is a link from that page:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/135635.php

I hope you don't give up and you can find something to relieve your
constant pain.


Thank you Cheryl! You know, I haven't tried going the clinical trial
route, but that might be an option.

As much as I think about it, I would never actually commit suicide - I
wouldn't do that to my family. I have a granddaughter who is fighting for
her life every day against Hodgkins Lymphoma - my suicide would be a slap
in the face to her and I would *never* do that no matter how badly I'm
hurting.

But I can't say I don't think about it - it is the only end in sight to my
pain (but with my luck I'll die after 20 years of pain and then be
sentenced to hell because I didn't go to church every Sunday, also, I
believe, a mortal sin in the Catholic Church). ;

Hugs,

CatNipped

I don't know whether or not my opinion matters, but I don't believe that for
a minute.

Joy

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the dark topic,

I studied suicide for a year, to help me in my job. It did not help much
except to realise I could not do too much about it.

Tweed