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#51
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In , "rainyseason"
wrote: | And Nicole, you've still not answered the question of why you refuse | to try SoftPaws. | Or claw trimming. | Or even wait and see? Chances are that the vet in question offers a "discount" for a combo spay-and-declaw "deal". So there's still time. | Tiny scratchy kittens soon learn not to scratch. They don't do it on | purpose, they just need to learn how to retract their claws. Yes. This is one of the reasons why a kitten needs other cats, to socialize properly. Claw control is an important part of the early training. (So are things like litterbox habits and grooming.) | If your baby wants to annoy the cat, teach it to respect it. You'll | need to do that whether the cat is declawed anyway. Cats learn to keep | their distance with an over exhuberant toddler. Unfortunately, the reverse may not be true. The fact of the matter is that accidents are *invariably* the human child's fault, but few parents are willing to concede that their darlings could have been responsible. Far more important than teaching pets about children - pets learn much more quickly than they're given credit for - is teaching children about pets - because children as a rule don't learn quickly enough. This is why rescue organizations generally don't adopt out to households with (small) children. | Some ways I taught my kittens not to scratch - play with them a lot with | toys on a stick, never with hands. Withdraw hands if they want to play | with them. This is indeed very important. Use hands to touch their paws only while petting (and/or brushing), never at play time. | Get another kitten and they'll teach each other to play fair. This is very good advice. Kittens should not be alone. As they grow older, playing with each other will keep them out of other mischief. Two littermates I trapped at about 11 weeks of age and then fostered were a case in point. They came with almost perfect claw control - the only time they used claws inadvertently was when they tried to clamber onto my lap rather than jump up. Crying out in pain, and then setting them down and ignoring them, did the trick - it took about a week. By contrast, another kitten I trapped at 14 weeks (and still have) had claw control problems, that took significantly longer to overcome. He was the only survivor of his litter, and there were no other kittens or juvenile cats in his feral colony. He missed out on a very important part of growing up to be a cat. My other cat taught him a lot, but the finer points of claw control were still lost on him for a while (a cat's hide can take a lot more "punishment" than human skin.) | Or maybe he'll learn that from the dog, I don't know about dogs so I'm | just guessing here. Dogs can also be very good teachers. Depends on the dog, of course. | BTW, we just got a rescue kitten who turned scratchy and I received | advice from people here. We just needed to give her a bit of time and | space on her own and she's back to normal. It takes observation, understanding and patience. There is no quick fix. |
#52
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[De-joepardied]
In nk.net, "Nicole" wrote: | "Laura R." wrote in message | .net... | circa Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:04:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, | Nicole ) said, | It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a procedure... | | How much of it did you watch? Did you see exactly what it consists | of? It is *cutting off the cat's first joint*. What if your toes were | cut off at the first joint? How agile would you be? Would you feel | that it was "humane"? | If you would like to talk about inhumane then perhaps we should talk about | your eating habits Changing the subject, as usual. I think you're lying. You have *not* seen the procedure. Here's your chance to prove me wrong. Describe what you saw. I'll even make it easy for you to make things up: http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/ See those bones on the towel? Did you pick one up to see how much came off? Here's a page with diagrams so that you can be absolutely sure of the anatomy: http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm Bonus points for answering this: what about the bleeding during the procedure? Haven't a clue, eh? |
#53
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[De-joepardied]
In nk.net, "Nicole" wrote: | "Laura R." wrote in message | .net... | circa Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:04:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, | Nicole ) said, | It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a procedure... | | How much of it did you watch? Did you see exactly what it consists | of? It is *cutting off the cat's first joint*. What if your toes were | cut off at the first joint? How agile would you be? Would you feel | that it was "humane"? | If you would like to talk about inhumane then perhaps we should talk about | your eating habits Changing the subject, as usual. I think you're lying. You have *not* seen the procedure. Here's your chance to prove me wrong. Describe what you saw. I'll even make it easy for you to make things up: http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/ See those bones on the towel? Did you pick one up to see how much came off? Here's a page with diagrams so that you can be absolutely sure of the anatomy: http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm Bonus points for answering this: what about the bleeding during the procedure? Haven't a clue, eh? |
#54
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Laura R. wrote:
circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cathy Friedmann ) said, Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/ the other person's opinions. Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them. I'm not trying to enter into this particular fray, I'm just pointing out that if you read the whole post, you'll see that that is just what Nicole did. Laura Posting baseless abuse reports puts her in the category they call "Internet Kook" and she deserves anything Arjun dishes out. Instructions : In this section give your Prospective Kook ONE point for every YES answer. Give your Prospective Kook additional points for multiple occurrences. Grading scale follows questions. Have they ever : 1. Been the first to go ad-hominem in a newsgroup debate. 2. Accused someone of breaking a non-existant Federal Law. 3. Called a properly formatted cancel of a BI20 article a *forged cancel* 4. Ranted about *Free Speech* when a moderator rejected your article. Two points if it's spelled "FREE SPEACH". 5. Tried to censor others, yet scream when others suggest that they killfile them or create a moderated newsgroup. 6. Complained to someone's ISP when you got spanked in a flame war. 7. Been complained about to your ISP deservedly. 8. Flamed someone from an anonymous account. 9. Made a spelling flame. (*) 10. Used RANT-CAPS & manic punctuation. 11. Claimed to be qualified to make a legal determination or medical diagnosis with no justification - bonus points if the kook is obviously projecting her/his *own* condition/behaviour. (**) In this section give your Prospective Kook TWO points for every YES |
#55
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Laura R. wrote:
circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cathy Friedmann ) said, Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/ the other person's opinions. Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them. I'm not trying to enter into this particular fray, I'm just pointing out that if you read the whole post, you'll see that that is just what Nicole did. Laura Posting baseless abuse reports puts her in the category they call "Internet Kook" and she deserves anything Arjun dishes out. Instructions : In this section give your Prospective Kook ONE point for every YES answer. Give your Prospective Kook additional points for multiple occurrences. Grading scale follows questions. Have they ever : 1. Been the first to go ad-hominem in a newsgroup debate. 2. Accused someone of breaking a non-existant Federal Law. 3. Called a properly formatted cancel of a BI20 article a *forged cancel* 4. Ranted about *Free Speech* when a moderator rejected your article. Two points if it's spelled "FREE SPEACH". 5. Tried to censor others, yet scream when others suggest that they killfile them or create a moderated newsgroup. 6. Complained to someone's ISP when you got spanked in a flame war. 7. Been complained about to your ISP deservedly. 8. Flamed someone from an anonymous account. 9. Made a spelling flame. (*) 10. Used RANT-CAPS & manic punctuation. 11. Claimed to be qualified to make a legal determination or medical diagnosis with no justification - bonus points if the kook is obviously projecting her/his *own* condition/behaviour. (**) In this section give your Prospective Kook TWO points for every YES |
#56
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In , Laura R.
wrote: | circa 8 Jul 2003 15:11:14 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Arjun | Ray ) said, | http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm | The pictures at the very bottom of the page would certainly seem to | indicate that declawing is *not* a humane or safe procedure. I wonder | if those cats' owners felt as horrible as they deserve to feel for | doing that to their cats. Sure they do - once they know. The guilt is unavoidable, but with rational people, this usually passes. For one thing, what's done is done - they can't go back and undo it. For another, the knowledge is liberating - it's better to know than to be ignorant or deluded and then defensively go into denial. That's what happened in another newsgroup recently. Someone who had declawed her cats insisted that it wasn't abuse, just routine surgery. She didn't believe that declawing was amputation ("Where did you get toes being cut off?? Get real!"), or that the pain is so reliable that declaw post-ops are used to test painkillers. But when presented with the facts, she had the *balls* to say that the knowledge was better than continuing in denial: "I have had a couple cats over the years that were declawed. You giving me the facts like that was like a slap in the face. You think I want to ADMIT I did something barbaric and painful to my cherished and beloved cats? My babies? When you posted those links yesterday, I refused to read them. I was sticking by my guns. I did NOT abuse my babies, no way, no how, no way. Well I did read them today. Thanks a lot!" and signed her name with the comment: "eyes opened a little more and feeling guilty as hell". For someone with as fundmentally healthy attitude as she, the guilt will pass. The knowledge will now allow her to say with conviction, "Never again." |
#57
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In , Laura R.
wrote: | circa 8 Jul 2003 15:11:14 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Arjun | Ray ) said, | http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm | The pictures at the very bottom of the page would certainly seem to | indicate that declawing is *not* a humane or safe procedure. I wonder | if those cats' owners felt as horrible as they deserve to feel for | doing that to their cats. Sure they do - once they know. The guilt is unavoidable, but with rational people, this usually passes. For one thing, what's done is done - they can't go back and undo it. For another, the knowledge is liberating - it's better to know than to be ignorant or deluded and then defensively go into denial. That's what happened in another newsgroup recently. Someone who had declawed her cats insisted that it wasn't abuse, just routine surgery. She didn't believe that declawing was amputation ("Where did you get toes being cut off?? Get real!"), or that the pain is so reliable that declaw post-ops are used to test painkillers. But when presented with the facts, she had the *balls* to say that the knowledge was better than continuing in denial: "I have had a couple cats over the years that were declawed. You giving me the facts like that was like a slap in the face. You think I want to ADMIT I did something barbaric and painful to my cherished and beloved cats? My babies? When you posted those links yesterday, I refused to read them. I was sticking by my guns. I did NOT abuse my babies, no way, no how, no way. Well I did read them today. Thanks a lot!" and signed her name with the comment: "eyes opened a little more and feeling guilty as hell". For someone with as fundmentally healthy attitude as she, the guilt will pass. The knowledge will now allow her to say with conviction, "Never again." |
#58
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In , Laura R.
wrote: | circa Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:10:19 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, | ) | said, | In this section give your Prospective Kook TWO points for every YES | | Where's section two? I was enjoying that! IINM, this is the KAT (Kook Appraisal Test), posted to alt.usenet.kooks quite a while back: There must be um, upgrades around somewhere. |
#59
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In , Laura R.
wrote: | circa Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:10:19 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, | ) | said, | In this section give your Prospective Kook TWO points for every YES | | Where's section two? I was enjoying that! IINM, this is the KAT (Kook Appraisal Test), posted to alt.usenet.kooks quite a while back: There must be um, upgrades around somewhere. |
#60
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| If your baby wants to annoy the cat, teach it to respect it. You'll
| need to do that whether the cat is declawed anyway. Cats learn to keep | their distance with an over exhuberant toddler. You're absolutely right. Cats and babies can be raised together with no permanent damage to either species. I know this. I did it. Sherry |
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