Candidate Friedman vows declawing ban

gaubster2 wrote:

The overwhelmingly vast majority of students that are having sex is not
in middle school. It's *much* older.

You might be surprised to find out how many middle school students are
having sex. I have taught middle school aged children for the past 8
years so I do have a few insights.

Birth control does not fall under the parameters of HEALTH. Demonstrating how to utilize birth
control doesn't either.

In my opinion it does. But that's okay. We disagree.

And yes, I'm talking about learning ABOUT
religion. I'm not talking about FORCING "group" prayer or telling kids
that it "is now time to start praying". The conversation here has gone
in that direction, but I don't condone that. I'm discussing the fact
that the left wants to turn our government school system into a secular
place where there is no mention of God or religion (especially
Christianity), although learning all about and basing lesson plans on
practicing certain tenets of Islam seems to be ok.

I think there are *people* on the left that feel that way...just as
there are people on the right that want EVOLUTION taken out of our
schools. You are making a HUGE sweeping generalization. HUGE. Most
teachers are quite liberal..it is true. However, using my school as an
example, in the 6th grade there is a HUGE unit on religion,
including...you bet...Christianity...and as far as I know, at least in
my area, this is common practice. And there is nothing wrong with
teaching about Islam...even in our "post 9/11 world"...as a matter of
fact it can only serve to HELP ease the divide that is there between the
Western world and the Muslim world. Remember, fears of Islam are based
on the actions of the FANATICS. Even you agree that this is not what we
base our judgments on. See your next statment...


Again, you are pointing to extreme religious zealots.

See?

I don't believe in killing abortion doctors. There are extremeists on each side.

Agreed. So stop worry about what the big bad LEFT wants to do because
trust me...the big bad RIGHT has their own agenda for our school system
and frankly what we need is a BALANCE.

I don't condone either one.

But it is clear where your preferences lay.

The run-of-the-mill everyday citizen who believes in Christianity is
not going around commiting horrible felonies. That's picture that is
being attempted to be painted, but it's certainly not true.

And the run-of-the-mill everyday "leftist" is not going around insisting
that teachers put condoms on bananas while eliminating a unit about
religion. That's the PICTURE that is being attempted to be painted, but
it's certainly not true.


....snip diatribe about forcing religion/prayer in school...


Who's advocating for that? Not me.

You may not be advocating for it but you have repeatedly questioned what
could be the harm in it. That *does* imply that you could be for it.

I agree that you should send your children to a religious school if that is what is
important. However, what is happening is that the government school
system is bending over backwards to take ALL mention of GOD of
religion (except Islam) OUT of school.

Not true. And your particular "irritiation" against Islam is starting to
smack of bigotry. If that is not your intention, you might consider
rephrasing your words.



Pam, I don't think you're a nutcase. We simply disagree on the sex ed
in schools issue. That is definitely something that should be covered
AT HOME, just as one should practice their religion AT HOME (on private
time).

Too idealistic. Parents who most need to teach their kids about sex ed
are simply not doing so. Then the kids get pregnant or a disease...and
guess what? The young girl wants an abortion...and...guess what? The
same "big bad right" that doesn't want sex ed in schools, also does not
want to allow that teenager the right to have one. It is a vicious
cycle. And one thing is certain. Education has been the proven cure-all
for prevention of unwanted pregnancies, diseases, etc. We are far from
perfecting the system, but if we take it away...we are literally going
from taking 2 steps forward to 150 steps backward.

Pam

-L. wrote:
gaubster2 wrote:


We have liberated millions of Muslims from
the tyrannical rule of Saddam and the Taliban. Apparently you have
a
problem with people being set free?

I have a problem with any country imposing their religious and other
beliefs on any other country. What we did was wage an unprovoked
offensive war. It has nothing to do with "freedom".

Gee, do you have any proof that we are trying to convert Iraq? Get a
grip, woman! BTW, it has everything to do w/ freedom. The Iraqis had
a free election and are on a path to self-goverance--not dictatorship.
And if you don't think Saddam was provoking us by shooting at our
planes in the no-fly zone (which he agree to under the terms of the '91
CEASE-FIRE), then you are seriously deluded.




We are saving Muslims, not killing
them.

All those dead bodies of Muslim people really donm't look too saved
to
me. In fact, they look pretty dead. Especially the children - ooops
-
I forgot - that's just "collateral damage".

Yep, all those dead Muslims killed by the Taliban and Saddam weren't
really Muslims, or were they? Apparently you think we are the evil
country. If you hate us so much, why don't you move to China, N.
Korea, Cuba, Syria, Iran, etc. Apparently you'll be much happier
living in a country that openly opposes us. That way you won't be
"underground" any longer.



We are killing the ones who are extreme and trying to kill us
first.

You aren't really *that* naive, are you?



So, you are making a moral equivalency between Satan and Christ?
You
are surely mad? Whom would you rather worship?

Neither. I don't believe Satan exists. I believe JC existed but I
don't believe he was any more the "son of God" than you or I am.


How do you explain the presence of evil in the world? That's the
problem w/ you liberals--you don't believe that there is such a thing
as evil. Do you think there is moral equivalency between child
molestors, rapists, murderers, and say, construction workers? Or do
you just think the bad guys are just "misguided"? Also, how exactly,
did Jesus Christ become so famous throughout history? Luck? A big
conspiracy to tick you off? Please explain.


(a little mention
to the Almighty, there....just to tick you off

Doesn't bother me one bit. Just don't try to tell me when,
where,
and
whom to worship.

Quit being so darned parnoid. Nobody is telling you what to do.

When you tell my kid he has to sit thorough your prayer seesion in my
public school, you are. When you tell my kid he has to recite the
pledge of allience in my school, you are. When you make him sing
Christmas songs and celebrate Christian holidays at school, you are.
Need I go on...?


You are being paranoid, since there is no harm in being exposed to
something you don't neccessarily agree with. Where's your tolerance
and diversity? Not to mention the fact, that none of what you state
above is actually, you know, HAPPENING!!? You're quickly losing your
grasp on reality.

PawsForThought wrote:


About 2 years ago, you were outed as a liar on the subject of your
cats. I'm not the one that lied, you were and you must take
responsibility for that.

No, 2 years ago you called me a liar, not only that, you continually
harrassed me until I had to dig out the medical records for my
deceased
cat, something I did not enjoy since it brought back a lot of painful
memories. You're just sore because my cats did so poorly on your
beloved Scie Die catfood and you can't let go of it. You really are
a
freak. You have no credibility whatsoever in this newsgroup, you
never
have, and you never will. You're a narrow-minded idiot who can't see
past his stuck up nose.




HELLOOOOO---EARTH TO LAUREN, COME IN LAUREN!! AGAIN, you've got me
confused w/ somebody else. In this case, Phil P. Nobody harrased you.
You felt the need to justify your story and he posted copious amounts
of archived posts that YOU made and HE is the one that caught YOU in
YOUR LIES, not me. In your haste to blame your the death of your cats
on Science Diet, you made up a bunch of lies. Your war at that time
was with Phil P, and I notice that you don't bother him much ever since
he "outed" you. Anyway, nobody can harrass you, you just killfile
them. I wonder why you never did that, if you believe you were being
harrassed? Again, your stories never make much sense.

I highly disagree with you on this one Gaubster. Sex ed should not only be
taught but the parents should be involved as well. As far as handing out
free birth control at all the schools in America, I have to wonder where you
get your information since I have yet to hear about too many schools doing
that. Sex-ed definately should be taught as a part of the health courses.
Educating kids about STD's, pregnancy, etc can give the kids the right
ammunition to make the right choices. Of course, no matter what someone says
that is in disagreement to you, you'll just ignore their post and of course
post your "Gaubster knows best" post and how all of us are wrong.

As for prayer in public school, it does not belong and no religion should be
pushed onto people. You seem to think that it should. Believe it or not
prayer in the public school can be harmful because a religious war can
ensue. Of course with your thinking and posts you have no problems with
that. When I went to school, there was a teacher who felt it necessary to
push her religious beliefs on her students no matter what religion they
were. I know being Jewish I felt uncomfortable with this teacher's beliefs
being pushed on me. Prayer in school is not protected under the first
amendment as you would like to believe. In fact one case regarding public
schools and prayer had a rather direct response from the U.S. Supreme Court
which states:

Official prayer in public schools is a violation of the Constitution which
states "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of
religion..."

You may think the Supreme Court is wrong but I would think they know the
constitution better than anyone else. It is interesting how you have come up
with absolutely no facts to back up your theory but then again I am not
surprised. All you seem to be doing is pulling things out of the air and
stating them as facts. You also are resorting to name calling as well if
someone disagrees with you and then playing the victim. You are wrong and
should just admit it.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

"gaubster2" wrote in message
ups.com...
The problem in this country is that everywhere you go, you're being
told to have sex and that you can do so w/o consequences. Ever stood
in the checkout line of your local grocery store? Just look at the
numerous magazines that are shouting out SEX to anyone and everyone
within arm's distance (including our kids and teens). That's not to
mention the sexually suggestive ads on billboards, from tv, etc. The
problem is not that our teens (and younger) are learning about the
mechanics of sex, but that they are not being taught about the very
real consequences--first of which is pregnancy, then STDs, then AIDS,
not to mention that the vast majority of our youngters aren't prepared
mentally. I would suggest that since just about every governement high
school in America hands out free birth control to our kids (sending the
message that you're expected to do this, so here, use this as a tool),
that the standard is set very low and people will achieve what you
expect out of them. The bottom line is that teaching "sex ed" in
schools in not only unneccesary it is harmful as well. I have no
problem with the teaching the basics of the reproductive system, and
STDs as part of health, but when you go further than that, it becomes
something that has no place in our public school system--just as you
feel that religion has no place in our public school system.


As for your claiming nobody is trying to force religion on kids in
school,
it seems that by your posts that you feel their needs to be prayer in
school
which of course leads to that. Of course Gaubster nobody can really
tell you
that without getting picked on.


Oh, if only I had that power--if I "feel" that something needs to
happen, then it does!

Don't be so thin-skinned. I'm not picking on you, I'm simply debating
you. You haven't been able to show any harm in a student "praying" at
school, AND IN FACT....nobody has been able to show where in the
Constitiution it says that we should even have a government school
system, let alone whether prayer or mention of religion is disallowed,
etc. There is a lot of opinion being thrown around here and that's
about it!

Kelly, it is pointless to argue with Gaubster. He seems to think his beliefs
are right and that everyone should be following and agreeing with him or you
are considered a bad person. I think we should just end this thread and stop
posting so he can live in his delusional world where he eventually proclaims
himself king.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

"KellyH" wrote in message
...
I'm not forcing my beliefs on anybody. BTW - I'm an Agnostic, not an
Atheist. It doesn't matter if the phrase "under God" harms anyone or not,
it doesn't belong there. Last time I checked, this is not a theocracy.
Just because Christians are the majority, doesn't mean they get to make
the rules for everyone.

Oh boy, yeah, you sure sound happy. Nobody here is trying to "educate"
you. Why are you so paranoid? Since you have rebelled against your
upbrining, what exactly is it about Christianity that you "aren't
falling for" any longer? Is there something that the rest of need to
know?


I'm a lot happier now that I don't have the threat of going to hell
hanging over me. Just a few examples of some of the things I'm "not
falling for" any longer: the universe was created in 7 days, if you don't
accept Jesus into your heart, you're going to hell, even if you are an
upstanding citizen, but happen to be a Jew, Muslim, Atheist, etc., all the
numerous inconsistencies in the Bible, that homosexuality is a sin, need I
go on?
--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

No. I have read every one of your posts and all you seem to do is name call
and pick on people when they don't share your views. It is pointless to talk
to someone who doesn't want to listen to what others have to say. I guess
with you, ignorance is bliss.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com

"gaubster2" wrote in message
oups.com...
You're selectively remembering here. I don't talk down to others
(well, I do to Lauren, but she reaps what she sows!), but since you
worked in a Chris Jericho reference, I'll forgive you!

gaubster2 wrote:
(...)
You can't just "make up" your own religion.

Better ask L. Ron Hubbard about that...

Steve.

KellyH wrote:


I'm not forcing my beliefs on anybody. BTW - I'm an Agnostic, not an

Atheist. It doesn't matter if the phrase "under God" harms anyone or
not,
it doesn't belong there. Last time I checked, this is not a
theocracy.
Just because Christians are the majority, doesn't mean they get to
make the
rules for everyone.

Right, and you don't have to say it if you don't want to--in fact,
nobody does. The fact that it is said that way seems to bother you??
Let's say that I think I pay too much in taxes (which I do). But I am
compelled to go along with the plan or else I go to jail. Nobody is
compelling you to say the Pledge of Allegience. See the difference?


Oh boy, yeah, you sure sound happy. Nobody here is trying to
"educate"
you. Why are you so paranoid? Since you have rebelled against
your
upbrining, what exactly is it about Christianity that you "aren't
falling for" any longer? Is there something that the rest of need
to
know?


I'm a lot happier now that I don't have the threat of going to hell
hanging
over me.

I'm glad I could help!

Just a few examples of some of the things I'm "not falling for"
any longer: the universe was created in 7 days, if you don't accept
Jesus
into your heart, you're going to hell, even if you are an upstanding
citizen, but happen to be a Jew, Muslim, Atheist, etc., all the
numerous
inconsistencies in the Bible, that homosexuality is a sin, need I go
on?


Interesting. Let's say for one second that you believe in a Divine
Creator. Just go w/ me for a moment on this one...why couldn't the
universe be created in 6 days? God rested on the seventh, you know!


FWIW, the *practice* of homosexuality is a sin. Perhaps you don't see
the difference, though?

Cat Protector wrote:
No. I have read every one of your posts and all you seem to do is
name call
and pick on people when they don't share your views. It is pointless
to talk
to someone who doesn't want to listen to what others have to say. I
guess
with you, ignorance is bliss.

Sorry, CP, you're wrong. The person who calls people names around here
is Lauren. And just because I disagree w/ somebody and ask them to
back up their opinions doesn't mean that I'm "picking" on them.
Interestingly enough, you have no problem when others "pick on" me!
Don't you think you're being hypocritical? It seems to me that you've
haven't given your positions much serious thought, or perhaps you would
be able to defend them better?


"gaubster2" wrote in message
oups.com...
You're selectively remembering here. I don't talk down to others
(well, I do to Lauren, but she reaps what she sows!), but since you
worked in a Chris Jericho reference, I'll forgive you!

Cat Protector wrote:
Kelly, it is pointless to argue with Gaubster. He seems to think his
beliefs
are right and that everyone should be following and agreeing with him
or you
are considered a bad person. I think we should just end this thread
and stop
posting so he can live in his delusional world where he eventually
proclaims
himself king.

Oy vey. CP, if you really think this, then you need some help.
Everyone who has posted here (including you) must think that your
beliefs are right or you wouldn't hold them? No? Good grief! If you
want to stop posting here, then go for it...nobody is stopping you. In
fact, you could probably also killfile me if you wish to partake in
censorship.