rec.pets.cats.breeds

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:38:56 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 wrote:
|The rescue people don't realize how much purebred cat owners and
|reputable breeders HATE the backyard breeders.

Hm. Do reputable breeders actually take their cats' offspring to
veterinarians for DNA testing? I'd think their reputations actually
depend on more than just a wink and a handshake, but on independently
verifiable credentials.

I am not a breeder. I have not yet heard of DNA testing. Maine Coon
breeders carefully check their studs and queens for cardio and hip
problems. The whole idea is to try to eliminate genetic defects that
are common to the breed. I am totally ignorant of how " new " breeds
are created.


|The problem is with a certain " militant " type of rescue worker
|who can't deal with the idea that some people ONLY want a certain
|type of purebred.

I wish I had my purebred albino tabby back... It's a long story...

|They take the position that every home given to a purebred is one
|less home for a moggie. In their eyes , you are a " cat killer. "
|
|I suspect that is the main reason for the proposal of
|rec.pets.cats.breeds.

|The real question: Are there enough owners and breeders to support
|the group NOW? Over the years many people have left newsgroups
|because of the hostility encountered over this issue. Will they
|come back? I guess we will find out if and when there is a vote
|for rec.pets.cats.breeds

It will produce an interesting result. I was thinking of abstaining
until Arthur said he'd probably vote yes, so I am tempted to vote
yes, too. I still am uncertain how these organizations maintain
their registries, though. Are they judging these cats on their
genetic makeup, or on whether they are winners of cat shows?

Genetic makeup, as I understand it. Once a breed has been accepted
into one of the organizations , it must conform to certain standards.
Breeders take the cats that they think will win to the shows. ALL
purebred cats are in the registry. There is little difference in looks
and no difference in temperament between " show " cats , breeder cats,
and pet quality cats. Unless a buyer is planning on breeding or
showing , all the cats that are sold are pet quality.

Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an
expensive and time consuming endeavor.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Misty9999 wrote:
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:38:56 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:
|
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 wrote:
||The rescue people don't realize how much purebred cat owners and
||reputable breeders HATE the backyard breeders.
|
|Hm. Do reputable breeders actually take their cats' offspring to
|veterinarians for DNA testing? I'd think their reputations actually
|depend on more than just a wink and a handshake, but on independently
|verifiable credentials.
|
|I am not a breeder. I have not yet heard of DNA testing.

It ought to cost something in the $50 to $99 range, like a urinalysis
test for humans. Surely different organizations offer different
degrees of services for certifying a lineage.

|Maine Coon breeders carefully check their studs and queens for cardio
|and hip problems.

Okay.

|The whole idea is to try to eliminate genetic defects that are
|common to the breed.

Breeding for strength and health is thereby facilitated.

|I am totally ignorant of how " new " breeds are created.

This something that could be discussed in us.support.cat-registries,
not just rec.pet.cat.breeding. You don't suppose that fraud runs
rampant in certain organizations that guarantee the lineages that
are inherent in the pedigrees awarded?

||The problem is with a certain " militant " type of rescue worker
||who can't deal with the idea that some people ONLY want a certain
||type of purebred.
|
|I wish I had my purebred albino tabby back... It's a long story...
|
||They take the position that every home given to a purebred is one
||less home for a moggie. In their eyes , you are a " cat killer. "
||
||I suspect that is the main reason for the proposal of
||rec.pets.cats.breeds.

hmm

||The real question: Are there enough owners and breeders to support
||the group NOW? Over the years many people have left newsgroups
||because of the hostility encountered over this issue. Will they
||come back? I guess we will find out if and when there is a vote
||for rec.pets.cats.breeds
|
|It will produce an interesting result. I was thinking of abstaining
|until Arthur said he'd probably vote yes, so I am tempted to vote
|yes, too. I still am uncertain how these organizations maintain
|their registries, though. Are they judging these cats on their
|genetic makeup, or on whether they are winners of cat shows?
|
|Genetic makeup, as I understand it.

Then DNA sampling ought to be a good thing, even if a little on the
expensive side.

|Once a breed has been accepted into one of the organizations ,
|it must conform to certain standards.

Well, certain organizations might be a lot more reputable than others.

|Breeders take the cats that they think will win to the shows.

Based on appearance, I suppose.

|ALL purebred cats are in the registry.

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

|There is little difference in looks and no difference in temperament
|between " show " cats , breeder cats, and pet quality cats.

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

|Unless a buyer is planning on breeding or showing , all the cats that
|are sold are pet quality.

This may turn around if it can be shown that a cat's personality
does have an identifiable genetic characteristic underlying it.

|Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an
|expensive and time consuming endeavor.

It can be a lot of work restricting access to your cats if you allow
them to roam around in your south forty, a couple hundred miles from
civilization.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Misty9999 wrote:
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:38:56 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:
|
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 wrote:
||The rescue people don't realize how much purebred cat owners and
||reputable breeders HATE the backyard breeders.
|
|Hm. Do reputable breeders actually take their cats' offspring to
|veterinarians for DNA testing? I'd think their reputations actually
|depend on more than just a wink and a handshake, but on independently
|verifiable credentials.
|
|I am not a breeder. I have not yet heard of DNA testing.

It ought to cost something in the $50 to $99 range, like a urinalysis
test for humans. Surely different organizations offer different
degrees of services for certifying a lineage.

|Maine Coon breeders carefully check their studs and queens for cardio
|and hip problems.

Okay.

|The whole idea is to try to eliminate genetic defects that are
|common to the breed.

Breeding for strength and health is thereby facilitated.

|I am totally ignorant of how " new " breeds are created.

This something that could be discussed in us.support.cat-registries,
not just rec.pet.cat.breeding. You don't suppose that fraud runs
rampant in certain organizations that guarantee the lineages that
are inherent in the pedigrees awarded?

||The problem is with a certain " militant " type of rescue worker
||who can't deal with the idea that some people ONLY want a certain
||type of purebred.
|
|I wish I had my purebred albino tabby back... It's a long story...
|
||They take the position that every home given to a purebred is one
||less home for a moggie. In their eyes , you are a " cat killer. "
||
||I suspect that is the main reason for the proposal of
||rec.pets.cats.breeds.

hmm

||The real question: Are there enough owners and breeders to support
||the group NOW? Over the years many people have left newsgroups
||because of the hostility encountered over this issue. Will they
||come back? I guess we will find out if and when there is a vote
||for rec.pets.cats.breeds
|
|It will produce an interesting result. I was thinking of abstaining
|until Arthur said he'd probably vote yes, so I am tempted to vote
|yes, too. I still am uncertain how these organizations maintain
|their registries, though. Are they judging these cats on their
|genetic makeup, or on whether they are winners of cat shows?
|
|Genetic makeup, as I understand it.

Then DNA sampling ought to be a good thing, even if a little on the
expensive side.

|Once a breed has been accepted into one of the organizations ,
|it must conform to certain standards.

Well, certain organizations might be a lot more reputable than others.

|Breeders take the cats that they think will win to the shows.

Based on appearance, I suppose.

|ALL purebred cats are in the registry.

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

|There is little difference in looks and no difference in temperament
|between " show " cats , breeder cats, and pet quality cats.

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

|Unless a buyer is planning on breeding or showing , all the cats that
|are sold are pet quality.

This may turn around if it can be shown that a cat's personality
does have an identifiable genetic characteristic underlying it.

|Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an
|expensive and time consuming endeavor.

It can be a lot of work restricting access to your cats if you allow
them to roam around in your south forty, a couple hundred miles from
civilization.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Misty9999 wrote:
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:38:56 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:
|
|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 wrote:
||The rescue people don't realize how much purebred cat owners and
||reputable breeders HATE the backyard breeders.
|
|Hm. Do reputable breeders actually take their cats' offspring to
|veterinarians for DNA testing? I'd think their reputations actually
|depend on more than just a wink and a handshake, but on independently
|verifiable credentials.
|
|I am not a breeder. I have not yet heard of DNA testing.

It ought to cost something in the $50 to $99 range, like a urinalysis
test for humans. Surely different organizations offer different
degrees of services for certifying a lineage.

|Maine Coon breeders carefully check their studs and queens for cardio
|and hip problems.

Okay.

|The whole idea is to try to eliminate genetic defects that are
|common to the breed.

Breeding for strength and health is thereby facilitated.

|I am totally ignorant of how " new " breeds are created.

This something that could be discussed in us.support.cat-registries,
not just rec.pet.cat.breeding. You don't suppose that fraud runs
rampant in certain organizations that guarantee the lineages that
are inherent in the pedigrees awarded?

||The problem is with a certain " militant " type of rescue worker
||who can't deal with the idea that some people ONLY want a certain
||type of purebred.
|
|I wish I had my purebred albino tabby back... It's a long story...
|
||They take the position that every home given to a purebred is one
||less home for a moggie. In their eyes , you are a " cat killer. "
||
||I suspect that is the main reason for the proposal of
||rec.pets.cats.breeds.

hmm

||The real question: Are there enough owners and breeders to support
||the group NOW? Over the years many people have left newsgroups
||because of the hostility encountered over this issue. Will they
||come back? I guess we will find out if and when there is a vote
||for rec.pets.cats.breeds
|
|It will produce an interesting result. I was thinking of abstaining
|until Arthur said he'd probably vote yes, so I am tempted to vote
|yes, too. I still am uncertain how these organizations maintain
|their registries, though. Are they judging these cats on their
|genetic makeup, or on whether they are winners of cat shows?
|
|Genetic makeup, as I understand it.

Then DNA sampling ought to be a good thing, even if a little on the
expensive side.

|Once a breed has been accepted into one of the organizations ,
|it must conform to certain standards.

Well, certain organizations might be a lot more reputable than others.

|Breeders take the cats that they think will win to the shows.

Based on appearance, I suppose.

|ALL purebred cats are in the registry.

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

|There is little difference in looks and no difference in temperament
|between " show " cats , breeder cats, and pet quality cats.

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

|Unless a buyer is planning on breeding or showing , all the cats that
|are sold are pet quality.

This may turn around if it can be shown that a cat's personality
does have an identifiable genetic characteristic underlying it.

|Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an
|expensive and time consuming endeavor.

It can be a lot of work restricting access to your cats if you allow
them to roam around in your south forty, a couple hundred miles from
civilization.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

Unlikely. The registry includes lineage, so an inexpensive
test would not be adequate to match Tom and Queen's DNA.
A full DNA analysis showing and EXACTLY 50% match might
be reasonable evidence of descent*, but....

And would this question be appropriate for rcp.breeds?

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

Unlikely. The registry includes lineage, so an inexpensive
test would not be adequate to match Tom and Queen's DNA.
A full DNA analysis showing and EXACTLY 50% match might
be reasonable evidence of descent*, but....

And would this question be appropriate for rcp.breeds?

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could
compel the organization to have her cat recorded? Assuming the fee
is paid?

Unlikely. The registry includes lineage, so an inexpensive
test would not be adequate to match Tom and Queen's DNA.
A full DNA analysis showing and EXACTLY 50% match might
be reasonable evidence of descent*, but....

And would this question be appropriate for rcp.breeds?

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

Actually personality can be a factor in showing. Cats that don't enjoy showing
don't generally do as well with the judges, so breeders will stop showing them.
That doesn't mean the cat wouldn't still make a great pet, however.

I think just as in dog shows, personality can mean the difference between first
and second place, it can work the same way in cat shows. And yes, there is
certainly a genetic component to personality.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

Actually personality can be a factor in showing. Cats that don't enjoy showing
don't generally do as well with the judges, so breeders will stop showing them.
That doesn't mean the cat wouldn't still make a great pet, however.

I think just as in dog shows, personality can mean the difference between first
and second place, it can work the same way in cat shows. And yes, there is
certainly a genetic component to personality.

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

I've noticed that different cats have different personalities. This
may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic
basis to the cat's personality. With enough DNA samples, modern
science might realize a new discovery or two.

Actually personality can be a factor in showing. Cats that don't enjoy showing
don't generally do as well with the judges, so breeders will stop showing them.
That doesn't mean the cat wouldn't still make a great pet, however.

I think just as in dog shows, personality can mean the difference between first
and second place, it can work the same way in cat shows. And yes, there is
certainly a genetic component to personality.