kidney failure and force feeding

arda wrote:

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
: But, she is also addicted to her dry science
: diet,
:
: Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat
with
: kidney disease and he

How long has he had kidney disease, how old is he, and was it ever at a
critical stage? Did he lose weight?

: hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
: protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite

Well, I will check that out.
Actually, it's C/D she's still eating, I think it's 30% protein!

She produced another nice (yam-coloured) poop today. Yippee.

palatable
: and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you
have a
: lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure
they
: can order it for you.

I will check into that, thanks.

arda


Also, if I may jump in, if your cat doesn't like either of those, you
may want to try Purina's prescription low-protein diet. A friend of mine
tried that on her cat who didn't like the SD (I believe the cat liked
other kinds of SD, can't remember for sure), but she loved the Purina.
Something else to try if you need to.

arda wrote:

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
: But, she is also addicted to her dry science
: diet,
:
: Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat
with
: kidney disease and he

How long has he had kidney disease, how old is he, and was it ever at a
critical stage? Did he lose weight?

: hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
: protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite

Well, I will check that out.
Actually, it's C/D she's still eating, I think it's 30% protein!

She produced another nice (yam-coloured) poop today. Yippee.

palatable
: and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you
have a
: lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure
they
: can order it for you.

I will check into that, thanks.

arda


Also, if I may jump in, if your cat doesn't like either of those, you
may want to try Purina's prescription low-protein diet. A friend of mine
tried that on her cat who didn't like the SD (I believe the cat liked
other kinds of SD, can't remember for sure), but she loved the Purina.
Something else to try if you need to.

arda wrote:

"MacCandace" wrote in message
...
: But, she is also addicted to her dry science
: diet,
:
: Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat
with
: kidney disease and he

How long has he had kidney disease, how old is he, and was it ever at a
critical stage? Did he lose weight?

: hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
: protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite

Well, I will check that out.
Actually, it's C/D she's still eating, I think it's 30% protein!

She produced another nice (yam-coloured) poop today. Yippee.

palatable
: and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you
have a
: lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure
they
: can order it for you.

I will check into that, thanks.

arda


Also, if I may jump in, if your cat doesn't like either of those, you
may want to try Purina's prescription low-protein diet. A friend of mine
tried that on her cat who didn't like the SD (I believe the cat liked
other kinds of SD, can't remember for sure), but she loved the Purina.
Something else to try if you need to.

"arda" wrote in message
news:qnSrb.361621$pl3.105639@pd7tw3no...
Well, I've read many archive posts (about 200 there are about
force-feeding) and I came up with something different on my own that
seeeems to be working.

Vet had said I should either get her to eat special wet food, or mix up
something with meat AND VEG. My cat likes things like fish, chicken, and
raw steak. Kind of a purist. But, she is also addicted to her dry
science
diet, lord knows I've tried many types of canned food, but all she would
eat was the foul smelling Fancy Feast, fish flavours, a grocery store
catfood that stinks to high heavens. I gave her a tablespoon a day, just
as a treat, in the past. So this has been her habit. She has kidney
failure and for 6 weeks I've been struggling with watching her, basically,
dying. She's often been up on the counters hunting around for any source
of the dry food she likes. When I give her some, she barfs.

Yes, it's good to feed a low protein food if you can, but it's not the end
of the world if you can't. Personally, I feel controlling phosphorus is more
important than controlling protein (though the two can go hand in hand to
some extent).

But now, the solution. Well, I wanted to find any kidney support herbs,
but all I came up with so far was parsley, celery and dandelion. Makes
sense. I incorporated this with another attempt to follow the vet's
orders
to get her to eat veggies.

Dandelion for one is a diuretic. I don't see the point of giving a diuretic
to a CRF cat who already has problems maintaining hydration.

I took celery root, carrot and yam, cooked soft. I mashed that with a
little butter and a crushed vitamin tablet the vet'd recommended. Then I
wrap my girl in a towel and force this goo into her mouth with a syringe,
10cc per time. Only a couple ccs go in her mouth at once though. With
her
head tilted back 45 degrees or so, she eats the stuff without choking.
Then I let her have the dry food, which she looooooves, but it's too high
protein. All the carb in the veggies should balance that off. Well, I
started this last night and was rewarded this morning with no barf, no
restlessness, and a nice big properly formed poop.

Cats have no nutritional need for vegetables, they would normally only eat
the small amount that might be found in a mouse's stomach. Feeding her
vegetables is not going to do a thing for her weight loss. If you're trying
to offset protein, you would be better off doing it with fat.

I suggest you read this page:

http://www.felinecrf.org/diet_and_nutrition.htm

They say she won't put on weight, but even if she doesn't lose any more
off
her skinny bones, maybe she can live longer.

If she's losing muscle as well as weight, she could have metabolic acidosis.
High phosphorus levels may also be a concern. I'd suggest you read up on the
basics of CRF here so you can decide what to focus on:

http://www.felinecrf.org/quick_summary.htm

HTH

Helen

She's 16, has subcutaneous fluids once or twice daily now.

I didn't xna this because who knows, it might be useful to someone else.

arda

"arda" wrote in message
news:qnSrb.361621$pl3.105639@pd7tw3no...
Well, I've read many archive posts (about 200 there are about
force-feeding) and I came up with something different on my own that
seeeems to be working.

Vet had said I should either get her to eat special wet food, or mix up
something with meat AND VEG. My cat likes things like fish, chicken, and
raw steak. Kind of a purist. But, she is also addicted to her dry
science
diet, lord knows I've tried many types of canned food, but all she would
eat was the foul smelling Fancy Feast, fish flavours, a grocery store
catfood that stinks to high heavens. I gave her a tablespoon a day, just
as a treat, in the past. So this has been her habit. She has kidney
failure and for 6 weeks I've been struggling with watching her, basically,
dying. She's often been up on the counters hunting around for any source
of the dry food she likes. When I give her some, she barfs.

Yes, it's good to feed a low protein food if you can, but it's not the end
of the world if you can't. Personally, I feel controlling phosphorus is more
important than controlling protein (though the two can go hand in hand to
some extent).

But now, the solution. Well, I wanted to find any kidney support herbs,
but all I came up with so far was parsley, celery and dandelion. Makes
sense. I incorporated this with another attempt to follow the vet's
orders
to get her to eat veggies.

Dandelion for one is a diuretic. I don't see the point of giving a diuretic
to a CRF cat who already has problems maintaining hydration.

I took celery root, carrot and yam, cooked soft. I mashed that with a
little butter and a crushed vitamin tablet the vet'd recommended. Then I
wrap my girl in a towel and force this goo into her mouth with a syringe,
10cc per time. Only a couple ccs go in her mouth at once though. With
her
head tilted back 45 degrees or so, she eats the stuff without choking.
Then I let her have the dry food, which she looooooves, but it's too high
protein. All the carb in the veggies should balance that off. Well, I
started this last night and was rewarded this morning with no barf, no
restlessness, and a nice big properly formed poop.

Cats have no nutritional need for vegetables, they would normally only eat
the small amount that might be found in a mouse's stomach. Feeding her
vegetables is not going to do a thing for her weight loss. If you're trying
to offset protein, you would be better off doing it with fat.

I suggest you read this page:

http://www.felinecrf.org/diet_and_nutrition.htm

They say she won't put on weight, but even if she doesn't lose any more
off
her skinny bones, maybe she can live longer.

If she's losing muscle as well as weight, she could have metabolic acidosis.
High phosphorus levels may also be a concern. I'd suggest you read up on the
basics of CRF here so you can decide what to focus on:

http://www.felinecrf.org/quick_summary.htm

HTH

Helen

She's 16, has subcutaneous fluids once or twice daily now.

I didn't xna this because who knows, it might be useful to someone else.

arda

"arda" wrote in message
news:qnSrb.361621$pl3.105639@pd7tw3no...
Well, I've read many archive posts (about 200 there are about
force-feeding) and I came up with something different on my own that
seeeems to be working.

Vet had said I should either get her to eat special wet food, or mix up
something with meat AND VEG. My cat likes things like fish, chicken, and
raw steak. Kind of a purist. But, she is also addicted to her dry
science
diet, lord knows I've tried many types of canned food, but all she would
eat was the foul smelling Fancy Feast, fish flavours, a grocery store
catfood that stinks to high heavens. I gave her a tablespoon a day, just
as a treat, in the past. So this has been her habit. She has kidney
failure and for 6 weeks I've been struggling with watching her, basically,
dying. She's often been up on the counters hunting around for any source
of the dry food she likes. When I give her some, she barfs.

Yes, it's good to feed a low protein food if you can, but it's not the end
of the world if you can't. Personally, I feel controlling phosphorus is more
important than controlling protein (though the two can go hand in hand to
some extent).

But now, the solution. Well, I wanted to find any kidney support herbs,
but all I came up with so far was parsley, celery and dandelion. Makes
sense. I incorporated this with another attempt to follow the vet's
orders
to get her to eat veggies.

Dandelion for one is a diuretic. I don't see the point of giving a diuretic
to a CRF cat who already has problems maintaining hydration.

I took celery root, carrot and yam, cooked soft. I mashed that with a
little butter and a crushed vitamin tablet the vet'd recommended. Then I
wrap my girl in a towel and force this goo into her mouth with a syringe,
10cc per time. Only a couple ccs go in her mouth at once though. With
her
head tilted back 45 degrees or so, she eats the stuff without choking.
Then I let her have the dry food, which she looooooves, but it's too high
protein. All the carb in the veggies should balance that off. Well, I
started this last night and was rewarded this morning with no barf, no
restlessness, and a nice big properly formed poop.

Cats have no nutritional need for vegetables, they would normally only eat
the small amount that might be found in a mouse's stomach. Feeding her
vegetables is not going to do a thing for her weight loss. If you're trying
to offset protein, you would be better off doing it with fat.

I suggest you read this page:

http://www.felinecrf.org/diet_and_nutrition.htm

They say she won't put on weight, but even if she doesn't lose any more
off
her skinny bones, maybe she can live longer.

If she's losing muscle as well as weight, she could have metabolic acidosis.
High phosphorus levels may also be a concern. I'd suggest you read up on the
basics of CRF here so you can decide what to focus on:

http://www.felinecrf.org/quick_summary.htm

HTH

Helen

She's 16, has subcutaneous fluids once or twice daily now.

I didn't xna this because who knows, it might be useful to someone else.

arda

On 11 Nov 2003 02:29:44 GMT, itter (MacCandace)
wrote:

But, she is also addicted to her dry science
diet,

Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat with
kidney disease and he hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite palatable
and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you have a
lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure they
can order it for you.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

I'll second that. My kidney cat, Cosmo, has been on Hill's g/d for
quite awhile now, since he started to refuse eating the k/d and I read
the Hill's booklet and discovered g/d (he also has a heart murmur, so
it seemed appropriate to me, and the vet agreed). He still seems to
be doing great, 3-1/2 years after diagnosis -- still grooming himself,
eating, drinking, peeing, even playful sometimes. Might just help
your CRF kitty, too.

Ginger-lyn

On 11 Nov 2003 02:29:44 GMT, itter (MacCandace)
wrote:

But, she is also addicted to her dry science
diet,

Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat with
kidney disease and he hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite palatable
and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you have a
lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure they
can order it for you.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

I'll second that. My kidney cat, Cosmo, has been on Hill's g/d for
quite awhile now, since he started to refuse eating the k/d and I read
the Hill's booklet and discovered g/d (he also has a heart murmur, so
it seemed appropriate to me, and the vet agreed). He still seems to
be doing great, 3-1/2 years after diagnosis -- still grooming himself,
eating, drinking, peeing, even playful sometimes. Might just help
your CRF kitty, too.

Ginger-lyn

On 11 Nov 2003 02:29:44 GMT, itter (MacCandace)
wrote:

But, she is also addicted to her dry science
diet,

Have you tried Hill's k/d for cats with kidney disease? I have a cat with
kidney disease and he hates it but he does love Hill's g/d which is lower
protein than normal Hill's but not as low as k/d. He finds it quite palatable
and yummy. I hope your protocol works out for your little girl and you have a
lot more time with her. Try the g/d, not all vets carry it but I'm sure they
can order it for you.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

I'll second that. My kidney cat, Cosmo, has been on Hill's g/d for
quite awhile now, since he started to refuse eating the k/d and I read
the Hill's booklet and discovered g/d (he also has a heart murmur, so
it seemed appropriate to me, and the vet agreed). He still seems to
be doing great, 3-1/2 years after diagnosis -- still grooming himself,
eating, drinking, peeing, even playful sometimes. Might just help
your CRF kitty, too.

Ginger-lyn

"Helen" wrote in message
...

: Yes, it's good to feed a low protein food if you can, but it's not the
end
: of the world if you can't. Personally, I feel controlling phosphorus is
more
: important than controlling protein (though the two can go hand in hand to
: some extent).

I'm going based on what the vet said. I will look into the links you
suggest. Thanks.

: Dandelion for one is a diuretic. I don't see the point of giving a
diuretic
: to a CRF cat who already has problems maintaining hydration.

Well, dandelion is high in minerals. Anyway, didn't give her any of that.


: Cats have no nutritional need for vegetables, they would normally only
eat
: the small amount that might be found in a mouse's stomach. Feeding her
: vegetables is not going to do a thing for her weight loss. If you're
trying
: to offset protein, you would be better off doing it with fat.

The vet said not too much fat, but that's not clear. How much is too much?
Well, I guess we'll see.
For now I'm overjoyed that food is going in her mouth and not coming out
the same end. That's a critical improvement.

: If she's losing muscle as well as weight, she could have metabolic
acidosis.
: High phosphorus levels may also be a concern. I'd suggest you read up on
the
: basics of CRF here so you can decide what to focus on:
:
: http://www.felinecrf.org/quick_summary.htm

She had a full blood test at the vet's. He knows she's losing weight since
she was poisoned by the painkiller the other vet had given. I'll ask my
vet about phosporus levels. Thanks.

arda