Need info about spaying please

Thanks for the info...

Kim, are there other vets in your area? I agree with Lauren, iso is really the
best. I don't mean to further alarm you when you are feeling worried anyway
and, yes, odds are your cat will be fine even if injectable anesthesia is used
but one of the main reasons why iso and other newer gases like sevo are
superior to injectable anesthesia is that, if problems develop, the gas can be
shut off but, with injections, it's already in the system and there isn't much
that can be done other than to use some other medication to counteract the
problem.

There used to be a very nice and helpful vet, Dr. Martin, who posted to this
newsgroup. Unfortunately, I haven't seen him lately but this is a post he
wrote in Sept. 2001 when I was getting ready to have my Abbey spayed:

I have read countless times in this newsgroup that the ideal anesthesia in
cats is isoflurane only. When the topic of anesthesia is brought up people
are encouraged to request their cats be anesthetized with nothing but
isoflurane. This has bugged me for a long time so I've decided to comment
on it.

Isoflurane only anesthesia involves placing a completely alert cat in a gas
box and running isoflurane gas at maximum concentration for about 5 minutes
until the cat is unconscious, then the cat is intubated and surgery begins.
Isoflurane smells very bad and this procedure is extremely stressful for the
cat. It's not uncommon for the terrified cats to flail around inside the
small box trying to escape the noxious fumes. Not only is this disturbing
to witness, it places the cat at risk of self inflicted trauma. It is this
kind of prolonged intense stress that can cause a cat with asymptomatic
heart disease to decompensate and go into heart failure. Isoflurane is a
very safe anesthetic at regular concentrations but the high concentrations
used for tank inductions can cause profound, life threatening hypotension
(low blood pressure). Being in a sealed box the cat cannot be monitored
closely enough during this critical period. The induction phase of
anesthesia (before securing an airway with intubation) is the most
dangerous. With gas induction we prolong what could be a 30 second induction
to a 5 minute highly stressful induction. Also isoflurane provides no pain
control.

In my opinion ideal anesthesia consists of 3 stages.
1) sedation - an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection tha contains a
sedative, an analgesic and sometimes a anticholinergic to maintain heart
rate. Sedation allows for decreased doses of induction agent (safer). It
also calms the patient to reduce stress and provides preemptive pain
control.
2) induction - an intravenous agent that rapidly anesthetizes the patient so
that an endotracheal tube can be rapidly placed so that we can breathe for
the patient if the patient stops breathing. These agents act so fast that
they can be dosed to effect - we only need to give as much as needed to make
the patient fall asleep. In a high risk cardiac patient I may give a small
amount of induction agent to calm and restrain the animal and finish with a
short period of mask induction.
3) maintenance - I agree isoflurane is a desirable agent for maintenace.

I hate the thought of many cats going through the stress and increased risk
of gas induction because people are insisting on this form of anesthesia.

J. Martin DVM

He further wrote:

,,If you want safe anesthesia for your cat I would suggest requesting
intraoperative IV fluids. Intra-op fluids allow for instantaneous venous
access for IV injections of emergency drugs if needed. Fluids keep the
kidneys perfused and can help maintain blood pressure even in the face of
excessive blood loss.

Proper monitoring is probably the most important aspect of safe anesthesia.
A technician should keep track of anesthetic depth, heart rate and
respiratory rate. Monitoring equipment such as respiratory, blood
pressure, ECG and oxygen saturation monitors can also increase safety.

Hope this helps,

J.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

From: itter (MacCandace)

Isoflurane only anesthesia involves placing a completely alert cat in a gas
box and running isoflurane gas at maximum concentration for about 5 minutes
until the cat is unconscious, then the cat is intubated and surgery begins.
Isoflurane smells very bad and this procedure is extremely stressful for the
cat. It's not uncommon for the terrified cats to flail around inside the
small box trying to escape the noxious fumes. Not only is this disturbing
to witness, it places the cat at risk of self inflicted trauma. It is this
kind of prolonged intense stress that can cause a cat with asymptomatic
heart disease to decompensate and go into heart failure. Isoflurane is a
very safe anesthetic at regular concentrations but the high concentrations
used for tank inductions can cause profound, life threatening hypotension
(low blood pressure). Being in a sealed box the cat cannot be monitored
closely enough during this critical period. The induction phase of
anesthesia (before securing an airway with intubation) is the most
dangerous. With gas induction we prolong what could be a 30 second induction
to a 5 minute highly stressful induction. Also isoflurane provides no pain
control.

In my opinion ideal anesthesia consists of 3 stages.
1) sedation - an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection tha contains a
sedative, an analgesic and sometimes a anticholinergic to maintain heart
rate. Sedation allows for decreased doses of induction agent (safer). It
also calms the patient to reduce stress and provides preemptive pain
control.
2) induction - an intravenous agent that rapidly anesthetizes the patient so
that an endotracheal tube can be rapidly placed so that we can breathe for
the patient if the patient stops breathing. These agents act so fast that
they can be dosed to effect - we only need to give as much as needed to make
the patient fall asleep. In a high risk cardiac patient I may give a small
amount of induction agent to calm and restrain the animal and finish with a
short period of mask induction.
3) maintenance - I agree isoflurane is a desirable agent for maintenace.

I hate the thought of many cats going through the stress and increased risk
of gas induction because people are insisting on this form of anesthesia.

J. Martin DVM

He further wrote:

,,If you want safe anesthesia for your cat I would suggest requesting
intraoperative IV fluids. Intra-op fluids allow for instantaneous venous
access for IV injections of emergency drugs if needed. Fluids keep the
kidneys perfused and can help maintain blood pressure even in the face of
excessive blood loss.

Proper monitoring is probably the most important aspect of safe anesthesia.
A technician should keep track of anesthetic depth, heart rate and
respiratory rate. Monitoring equipment such as respiratory, blood
pressure, ECG and oxygen saturation monitors can also increase safety.

Hope this helps,

J.

Candace

Thanks for posting this, Candace. Great information to have on hand. I wonder
what the drugs are that he mentions.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: itter (MacCandace)

Isoflurane only anesthesia involves placing a completely alert cat in a gas
box and running isoflurane gas at maximum concentration for about 5 minutes
until the cat is unconscious, then the cat is intubated and surgery begins.
Isoflurane smells very bad and this procedure is extremely stressful for the
cat. It's not uncommon for the terrified cats to flail around inside the
small box trying to escape the noxious fumes. Not only is this disturbing
to witness, it places the cat at risk of self inflicted trauma. It is this
kind of prolonged intense stress that can cause a cat with asymptomatic
heart disease to decompensate and go into heart failure. Isoflurane is a
very safe anesthetic at regular concentrations but the high concentrations
used for tank inductions can cause profound, life threatening hypotension
(low blood pressure). Being in a sealed box the cat cannot be monitored
closely enough during this critical period. The induction phase of
anesthesia (before securing an airway with intubation) is the most
dangerous. With gas induction we prolong what could be a 30 second induction
to a 5 minute highly stressful induction. Also isoflurane provides no pain
control.

In my opinion ideal anesthesia consists of 3 stages.
1) sedation - an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection tha contains a
sedative, an analgesic and sometimes a anticholinergic to maintain heart
rate. Sedation allows for decreased doses of induction agent (safer). It
also calms the patient to reduce stress and provides preemptive pain
control.
2) induction - an intravenous agent that rapidly anesthetizes the patient so
that an endotracheal tube can be rapidly placed so that we can breathe for
the patient if the patient stops breathing. These agents act so fast that
they can be dosed to effect - we only need to give as much as needed to make
the patient fall asleep. In a high risk cardiac patient I may give a small
amount of induction agent to calm and restrain the animal and finish with a
short period of mask induction.
3) maintenance - I agree isoflurane is a desirable agent for maintenace.

I hate the thought of many cats going through the stress and increased risk
of gas induction because people are insisting on this form of anesthesia.

J. Martin DVM

He further wrote:

,,If you want safe anesthesia for your cat I would suggest requesting
intraoperative IV fluids. Intra-op fluids allow for instantaneous venous
access for IV injections of emergency drugs if needed. Fluids keep the
kidneys perfused and can help maintain blood pressure even in the face of
excessive blood loss.

Proper monitoring is probably the most important aspect of safe anesthesia.
A technician should keep track of anesthetic depth, heart rate and
respiratory rate. Monitoring equipment such as respiratory, blood
pressure, ECG and oxygen saturation monitors can also increase safety.

Hope this helps,

J.

Candace

Thanks for posting this, Candace. Great information to have on hand. I wonder
what the drugs are that he mentions.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

My Delilah is about the same age and just had her first heat a few weeks
ago. It lasted about five days but we found that when she was really
meowing, it was easy enough to distract her with her favourite toys (she
likes to chase)

She is going in for her spaying tomorrow and although I am not sure of what
kind of anaesthetic they'll be using, I opted to pay a bit more and get the
surgery done with the laser method. The nurse assured me it is less bloody,
less painful to the cats. From what I saw on the internet about it, and
comparing it to the 'old way' it does look much better with only about 5
stitches from what I could see. We have another kitten a few months old
(younger than Delilah) and my concern was their play. I'll restrict Delilah
to our bedroom with water, food and her litter but then let her come out the
next day and supervise everything the two kittens get up to ( I am off after
just having surgery myself and my fiancé is here).

Good luck... I know how stressful this is to you.



--
rach

"Hipsters - UNITE!"

"Kim" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
Not the whys, just the how's. Brio came into heat today and although I'm
terrified of putting my girl through surgery I know it has to be done.
Just
thinking about it makes me feel so sad and worried.

Even though she's young (7 months) I'll be getting pre-anaesthetic testing
done as I want to minimize risk as much as possible.

What I'd like to know is the safest anaesthetic. I heard that there's one
even safer than isoflorane. Any info, recommendations would really be
appreciated.

Also, how long will she be in heat? I've read that cats generally go into
heat a couple times a year... is that true?

And, after spaying, how long is the healing process? I was thinking of
getting it done on a Wed a.m. then picking her up after work and taking
thurs and fri off work to monitor her... in addition to the weekend of
course. I

Please reply to the group as I'm using a spam-protecting email address.

Thanks so much for any info you can provide me with.

My Delilah is about the same age and just had her first heat a few weeks
ago. It lasted about five days but we found that when she was really
meowing, it was easy enough to distract her with her favourite toys (she
likes to chase)

She is going in for her spaying tomorrow and although I am not sure of what
kind of anaesthetic they'll be using, I opted to pay a bit more and get the
surgery done with the laser method. The nurse assured me it is less bloody,
less painful to the cats. From what I saw on the internet about it, and
comparing it to the 'old way' it does look much better with only about 5
stitches from what I could see. We have another kitten a few months old
(younger than Delilah) and my concern was their play. I'll restrict Delilah
to our bedroom with water, food and her litter but then let her come out the
next day and supervise everything the two kittens get up to ( I am off after
just having surgery myself and my fiancé is here).

Good luck... I know how stressful this is to you.



--
rach

"Hipsters - UNITE!"

"Kim" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
Not the whys, just the how's. Brio came into heat today and although I'm
terrified of putting my girl through surgery I know it has to be done.
Just
thinking about it makes me feel so sad and worried.

Even though she's young (7 months) I'll be getting pre-anaesthetic testing
done as I want to minimize risk as much as possible.

What I'd like to know is the safest anaesthetic. I heard that there's one
even safer than isoflorane. Any info, recommendations would really be
appreciated.

Also, how long will she be in heat? I've read that cats generally go into
heat a couple times a year... is that true?

And, after spaying, how long is the healing process? I was thinking of
getting it done on a Wed a.m. then picking her up after work and taking
thurs and fri off work to monitor her... in addition to the weekend of
course. I

Please reply to the group as I'm using a spam-protecting email address.

Thanks so much for any info you can provide me with.

Wow, I've never heard of laser surgery. I'm going to check the yellow pages
to see if anybody does it in my area. Hope all goes well for your little one
tomorrow ... and that you yourself are on the mend...

I have another question for everybody. What vaccinations are needed before
spaying?

Brio hasn't had any shots and when I called to make an appt today I was told
that she'd have to have vacs first (including rabies), then wait a couple
weeks for spaying (until her immune system has time to recover).

I've never had a cat who got vacs before so I was surprised to be told this
today. I know there are 2 schools of thought about whether they're necessary
or not. I kind of lean to the not, as I always keep my pets indoors, but I
certaintly don't want to risk Brio being exposed to something at the vet
clinic.

Thanks to everyone for all the responses... I'm really learning a lot.


".oO rach Oo." wrote in message
...
My Delilah is about the same age and just had her first heat a few weeks
ago. It lasted about five days but we found that when she was really
meowing, it was easy enough to distract her with her favourite toys (she
likes to chase)

She is going in for her spaying tomorrow and although I am not sure of
what
kind of anaesthetic they'll be using, I opted to pay a bit more and get
the
surgery done with the laser method. The nurse assured me it is less
bloody,
less painful to the cats. From what I saw on the internet about it, and
comparing it to the 'old way' it does look much better with only about 5
stitches from what I could see. We have another kitten a few months old
(younger than Delilah) and my concern was their play. I'll restrict
Delilah
to our bedroom with water, food and her litter but then let her come out
the
next day and supervise everything the two kittens get up to ( I am off
after
just having surgery myself and my fiancé is here).

Good luck... I know how stressful this is to you.



--
rach

"Hipsters - UNITE!"

"Kim" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
Not the whys, just the how's. Brio came into heat today and although I'm
terrified of putting my girl through surgery I know it has to be done.
Just
thinking about it makes me feel so sad and worried.

Even though she's young (7 months) I'll be getting pre-anaesthetic
testing
done as I want to minimize risk as much as possible.

What I'd like to know is the safest anaesthetic. I heard that there's
one
even safer than isoflorane. Any info, recommendations would really be
appreciated.

Also, how long will she be in heat? I've read that cats generally go
into
heat a couple times a year... is that true?

And, after spaying, how long is the healing process? I was thinking of
getting it done on a Wed a.m. then picking her up after work and taking
thurs and fri off work to monitor her... in addition to the weekend of
course. I

Please reply to the group as I'm using a spam-protecting email address.

Thanks so much for any info you can provide me with.

Wow, I've never heard of laser surgery. I'm going to check the yellow pages
to see if anybody does it in my area. Hope all goes well for your little one
tomorrow ... and that you yourself are on the mend...

I have another question for everybody. What vaccinations are needed before
spaying?

Brio hasn't had any shots and when I called to make an appt today I was told
that she'd have to have vacs first (including rabies), then wait a couple
weeks for spaying (until her immune system has time to recover).

I've never had a cat who got vacs before so I was surprised to be told this
today. I know there are 2 schools of thought about whether they're necessary
or not. I kind of lean to the not, as I always keep my pets indoors, but I
certaintly don't want to risk Brio being exposed to something at the vet
clinic.

Thanks to everyone for all the responses... I'm really learning a lot.


".oO rach Oo." wrote in message
...
My Delilah is about the same age and just had her first heat a few weeks
ago. It lasted about five days but we found that when she was really
meowing, it was easy enough to distract her with her favourite toys (she
likes to chase)

She is going in for her spaying tomorrow and although I am not sure of
what
kind of anaesthetic they'll be using, I opted to pay a bit more and get
the
surgery done with the laser method. The nurse assured me it is less
bloody,
less painful to the cats. From what I saw on the internet about it, and
comparing it to the 'old way' it does look much better with only about 5
stitches from what I could see. We have another kitten a few months old
(younger than Delilah) and my concern was their play. I'll restrict
Delilah
to our bedroom with water, food and her litter but then let her come out
the
next day and supervise everything the two kittens get up to ( I am off
after
just having surgery myself and my fiancé is here).

Good luck... I know how stressful this is to you.



--
rach

"Hipsters - UNITE!"

"Kim" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
Not the whys, just the how's. Brio came into heat today and although I'm
terrified of putting my girl through surgery I know it has to be done.
Just
thinking about it makes me feel so sad and worried.

Even though she's young (7 months) I'll be getting pre-anaesthetic
testing
done as I want to minimize risk as much as possible.

What I'd like to know is the safest anaesthetic. I heard that there's
one
even safer than isoflorane. Any info, recommendations would really be
appreciated.

Also, how long will she be in heat? I've read that cats generally go
into
heat a couple times a year... is that true?

And, after spaying, how long is the healing process? I was thinking of
getting it done on a Wed a.m. then picking her up after work and taking
thurs and fri off work to monitor her... in addition to the weekend of
course. I

Please reply to the group as I'm using a spam-protecting email address.

Thanks so much for any info you can provide me with.

Kim writes
I've never heard of laser surgery. I'm going to check the yellow pages
to see if anybody does it in my area.

Please don't just depend on a yellow pages ad as validity on the vet's
qualifications.

Kim writes
I've never heard of laser surgery. I'm going to check the yellow pages
to see if anybody does it in my area.

Please don't just depend on a yellow pages ad as validity on the vet's
qualifications.

I would never do that ...

"Luvskats00" wrote in message
...
Kim writes
I've never heard of laser surgery. I'm going to check the yellow pages
to see if anybody does it in my area.

Please don't just depend on a yellow pages ad as validity on the vet's
qualifications.