Best way to keep us all cool?

I hope someone with a brain for physics can explain to me how to maximize
cooling of this non-air-conditioned house. It's been super hot here lately
and the cats, the hoomins and the bunny wabbit are all suffering. But maybe
we are doing something wrong....

Early in the morning we close up the thermal windows and doors against the
heat. This usually keeps the indoor temp about 20 degrees cooler than
outdoors until the middle to late afternoon. As the day wears on, the temp
differential shrinks until finally around 9 PM it is equal and that's when
we open all the windows and doors to let the house cool down during the
night.

Except lately the house isn't cooling down enough during the night for it to
be pleasant inside the next day. It was still 80 degrees inside at 7 AM
today. Normally it's at least down to 75. The outdoor temp is going down
lower than that most nights. Right now, at 10 PM, it's 87 in here.

Tonight I want to do something to change the situation, if possible. If I
can figure out what it will take.

There is a 2'x3' hole in the floor in the center of the house, where a floor
furnace used to be. As of now, there is a metal grate sitting in that hole
and it lets cool air from the basement come up. There's a window fan in the
upper sash of one window sucking air out, which helps to pull the cooler air
up from the basement (door to the outside is open down there). When I stand
on the grate, I can feel the cool air coming up.

I've also got 4 ceiling fans running at top speed. I noticed while cleaning
them yesterday that each one has a switch that can be used to make it turn
in the opposite direction. I don't know which way the fans *should* be
turning to help cool down the house at night, but I know that when one is
turning counter-clockwise, it produces more of a "breeze" on my body if I
stand under it.

Would it help if I put a box fan on top of the floor grate, blowing upward?
Should the window fan be blowing in, rather than sucking out? If this was
your house, how would you arrange it? (don't tell me to install a/c; I can't
afford the appliance OR the extra electricity) (and no, I am not in a place
where a swamp cooler would do any good)

Thanks in advance for any advice. And BTW I wear wet clothes in the house,
even in bed at night. It is the only way I've managed to survive so far. But
I'd really like for the house to be cooler, for many reasons, not least of
which is I think this computer would last longer. Certainly the cats would
be more comfortable, and so would the bunny.

In ,
Pat typed:
I hope someone with a brain for physics can explain to me how to
maximize cooling of this non-air-conditioned house. It's been super
hot here lately and the cats, the hoomins and the bunny wabbit are
all suffering. But maybe we are doing something wrong....

Early in the morning we close up the thermal windows and doors
against the heat. This usually keeps the indoor temp about 20 degrees
cooler than outdoors until the middle to late afternoon. As the day
wears on, the temp differential shrinks until finally around 9 PM it
is equal and that's when we open all the windows and doors to let the
house cool down during the night.

Except lately the house isn't cooling down enough during the night
for it to be pleasant inside the next day. It was still 80 degrees
inside at 7 AM today. Normally it's at least down to 75. The outdoor
temp is going down lower than that most nights. Right now, at 10 PM,
it's 87 in here.
Tonight I want to do something to change the situation, if possible.
If I can figure out what it will take.

There is a 2'x3' hole in the floor in the center of the house, where
a floor furnace used to be. As of now, there is a metal grate sitting
in that hole and it lets cool air from the basement come up. There's
a window fan in the upper sash of one window sucking air out, which
helps to pull the cooler air up from the basement (door to the
outside is open down there). When I stand on the grate, I can feel
the cool air coming up.
I've also got 4 ceiling fans running at top speed. I noticed while
cleaning them yesterday that each one has a switch that can be used
to make it turn in the opposite direction. I don't know which way the
fans *should* be turning to help cool down the house at night, but I
know that when one is turning counter-clockwise, it produces more of
a "breeze" on my body if I stand under it.

Would it help if I put a box fan on top of the floor grate, blowing
upward? Should the window fan be blowing in, rather than sucking out?
If this was your house, how would you arrange it? (don't tell me to
install a/c; I can't afford the appliance OR the extra electricity)
(and no, I am not in a place where a swamp cooler would do any good)

Thanks in advance for any advice. And BTW I wear wet clothes in the
house, even in bed at night. It is the only way I've managed to
survive so far. But I'd really like for the house to be cooler, for
many reasons, not least of which is I think this computer would last
longer. Certainly the cats would be more comfortable, and so would
the bunny.

Its as simple as this:

Hot air rises, cold air falls.

Which is why the air in your basement is cooler than the air in your
ceiling.

What you need to do is suck as much cool air from the basement *into* your
house, and blow as much hot air from the ceiling/roof out of your house.

The fan blowing upwards over hte basement grate is *exactly* what you should
be doing. At the top of each window, blow the air out. Even better, blow it
out the top of yoru roof

I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get yor roof
fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the hottest air from
your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply by convection. It needs
no power. What is a whirley bird? They look like this:

http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are pumping into
your house.

And yes, closing up the house from the heat is the right thing to do until
it gets to the point where the house and the atmosphere are about the same
temp, and then you need to get rid of the heat in your house pronto.

The ceiling fans are there to mix the air up so there's not hot and no cold
spots, not necessarily to move air from one place to another. They are
generally set to provide a breeze in summer so as to increase the
evaopration of sweat on your skin, leaving you feeling a little cooler. If
you like the breeze, set it that way, but remember that they'll 'mix up' the
air. If you are trying to blow coool air in and blow hot air out, don't use
the ceiling fan in any other room than the one you are in and need the
'breeze'.

Placing a damp open weave cloth over the basement grate will cool the air
even more - this is the essence of a swamp cooler.

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south & west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating the
heat into the house.

Common sense dictates that you restict the use of 'heat making' equipment -
including computers, tvs, incandescent lights, cooking etc etc - to the
minimum necessary, and preferrably in a room where you can close the door
and go to a cooler part of the house when finished.

In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing walls,
you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out walls in summer,
but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter. Another trick is to paint
your roof white and use as much insulation as you can in your roof cavity.

Yowie
(Aussies are great at keeping cool in summer. We have no idea about how to
keep warm in winter, though)

Yowie wrote
I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get yor roof
fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the hottest air from
your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply by convection. It needs
no power. What is a whirley bird? They look like this:

http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are pumping
into your house.

I do have a bunch of attic vents, but I mainly did that because mold was
growing up on the rafters. If I get this thing, do I then need to leave the
attic entrance open at all times? It's just a hole in the ceiling, covered
with a board. It's inside a small closet which is normally kept closed. I
used to think if I left both closet and attic entry open in summer, it would
help, but I don't think it worked, it didn't seem to make a difference. I
once left the attic entry open with the closet door shut. This caused the
contents of the closet to heat up a lot and made me wonder if the heat was
coming down even more when the closet door was open..

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south & west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating
the heat into the house.

The walls stay pretty cool. The ceiling doesn't. Wouldn't spraying the roof
work better? It doesn't really matter, because the water here isn't free;
any extra used has to go on the garden.

In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing walls,
you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out walls in summer,
but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter. Another trick is to
paint your roof white and use as much insulation as you can in your roof
cavity.

No can do about the trees, unless I want the sewer line invaded by roots,
nor the paint, because the roof is asphalt shingles. I thought I might get
four large barrels and plant kudzu vines at each corner of the house and let
them cover the roof! If they tried to run elsewhere than up the house, I'd
have to stop them, of course. But I'm not sure having kudzu vines attaching
to the shingles would be good for the shingles....

On Jul 12, 8:03*am, "Pat" wrote:
Yowie wrote

I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get *yor roof
fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the hottest air from
your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply by convection. It needs
no power. What is a whirley bird? They look like this:

http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are pumping
into your house.

I do have a bunch of attic vents, but I mainly did that because mold was
growing up on the rafters. If I get this thing, do I then need to leave the
attic entrance open at all times? It's just a hole in the ceiling, covered
with a board. It's inside a small closet which is normally kept closed. I
used to think if I left both closet and attic entry open in summer, it would
help, but I don't think it worked, it didn't seem to make a difference. I
once left the attic entry open with the closet door shut. This caused the
contents of the closet to heat up a lot and made me wonder if the heat was
coming down even more when the closet door was open..

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south & west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating
the heat into the house.

The walls stay pretty cool. The ceiling doesn't. Wouldn't spraying the roof
work better? It doesn't really matter, because the water here isn't free;
any extra used has to go on the garden.

In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing walls,
you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out walls in summer,
but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter. Another trick is to
paint your roof white and use as much insulation as you can in your roof
cavity.

No can do about the trees, unless I want the sewer line invaded by roots,
nor the paint, because the roof is asphalt shingles. I thought I might get
four large barrels and plant kudzu vines at each corner of the house and let
them cover the roof! If they tried to run elsewhere than up the house, I'd
have to stop them, of course. But I'm not sure having kudzu vines attaching
to the shingles would be good for the shingles....

My house in FL had asphalt shingles (much better to resist ripping off
in 'canes than
the barrel tile roof it had before Andrew did a number on it and I had
it reroofed with asphalt,
but I share Pat's apprehension about any vines incorporating
themselves into the shingles
even though she has no 'canes in MO.
More important: her fear re the water/sewer line being invaded by
water-seeking tree roots
is not only totally valid but expensive to deal with as you have to
get professionals to dig in
there and remove root twinings all up and down the line.....one *big*
expense, I have BTDT
at the house in FL. (those lovely old mature treees, ficus and rubber,
were the culprits...if you
remember the pics I posted a long time ago of backyard of house in FL
(the trees that the
iguanas hung out in those trees hung out on a cliff over the lake
behind house; do you think
they were happy with going for *lake water*? NO, the roots went for
the water line *beside*
the house.
Pat is not in FL but lives in MO however I don't think trees roots
behave any differently there
than where I lived seeking water source handy to invade.

Pat wrote:

I do have a bunch of attic vents, but I mainly did that because mold was
growing up on the rafters. If I get this thing, do I then need to leave the
attic entrance open at all times? It's just a hole in the ceiling, covered
with a board. It's inside a small closet which is normally kept closed. I
used to think if I left both closet and attic entry open in summer, it would
help, but I don't think it worked, it didn't seem to make a difference. I
once left the attic entry open with the closet door shut. This caused the
contents of the closet to heat up a lot and made me wonder if the heat was
coming down even more when the closet door was open..

The "whirly bird" is essentially a fan operated by the convective air
current. The hot air naturally rises to the top of the house - with the
convective exhaust fan operating, it just continues on up through the
attic vent, allowing cooler air to rise and occupy the attic space. (It
only "runs" in one direction - which is why you close it off in winter
to prevent warm air escaping when you WANT it to stay indoors.)

Pat wrote:

Yowie wrote

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south & west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating
the heat into the house.

The walls stay pretty cool. The ceiling doesn't. Wouldn't spraying the roof
work better? It doesn't really matter, because the water here isn't free;
any extra used has to go on the garden.

Pat, you should look into gray water. That's water that has already been
used for something else, such as laundry. You have to invest some amount to
set it up, but once you have it in place, it could reduce your water usage
by a significant amount. Gray water is good for things like watering a
garden or, in your case, hosing down the sides of the house on hot days.

Joyce

In ,
Pat typed:
Yowie wrote
I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get yor
roof fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the
hottest air from your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply
by convection. It needs no power. What is a whirley bird? They look
like this: http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are
pumping into your house.

I do have a bunch of attic vents, but I mainly did that because mold
was growing up on the rafters. If I get this thing, do I then need to
leave the attic entrance open at all times? It's just a hole in the
ceiling, covered with a board. It's inside a small closet which is
normally kept closed. I used to think if I left both closet and attic
entry open in summer, it would help, but I don't think it worked, it
didn't seem to make a difference. I once left the attic entry open
with the closet door shut. This caused the contents of the closet to
heat up a lot and made me wonder if the heat was coming down even
more when the closet door was open..

No, no need to keep the attic entry open.

Although if you do install a whirley bird (or whatever you call them over
there) you could experiment :-)


And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always
restricted here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the
south & west walls of the house. It will cool them down and stop
them continuing radiating the heat into the house.

The walls stay pretty cool. The ceiling doesn't. Wouldn't spraying
the roof work better? It doesn't really matter, because the water
here isn't free; any extra used has to go on the garden.

Sorry, thinking you wouldn't be able to spray the roof. Yes, spraying the
roof would work to some degree or other, but you'd have to work out for
yourself - through trial and error - whether it works well enough for you to
bother with.


In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing
walls, you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out
walls in summer, but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter.
Another trick is to paint your roof white and use as much insulation
as you can in your roof cavity.

No can do about the trees, unless I want the sewer line invaded by
roots, nor the paint, because the roof is asphalt shingles. I thought
I might get four large barrels and plant kudzu vines at each corner
of the house and let them cover the roof! If they tried to run
elsewhere than up the house, I'd have to stop them, of course. But
I'm not sure having kudzu vines attaching to the shingles would be
good for the shingles....

Actually, having a 'living' roof is a great idea, and certianly would keep
it much cooler than bare asphalt shingle. But yes, agree with your concern
about the integrity of the shingle and would also have to mention the
*weight* of the roof once it has a decent amount of green matter growing on
it. Again, why not experiment? Get some roof shingles and grow some kudzu on
it and see what happens?

Yowie

"Yowie" wrote in message ...

Again, why not experiment? Get some roof shingles and grow some kudzu on
it and see what happens?

Yowie

- - - - - - - - - -

No!! I hope she will not seriously consider kudzu. It is a rampant and
invasive species. It was apparently imported to the U.S. for erosion
control and in the hope that it would make good fodder for cows. Instead,
it has literally taken over certain areas of the south and has become a
major pest that seems to be almost immune to attempts to control it. I
don't know if it would thrive as far north as Pat lives. If it does, she
and everyone else in her area could live to regret it. It will cover trees
and block out light so that they are killed, cover telephone poles, etc.
Once established, it is fast-growing and almost impossible to control. I
remember the first time I saw it--it looked like some foliage monster out of
a horror movie that had taken over everything. Take a look at these
pictures:
http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9671/

MaryL

On Jul 13, 5:20*am, "MaryL" wrote:
"Yowie" *wrote in ...

Again, why not experiment? Get some roof shingles and grow some kudzu on
it and see what happens?

Yowie

- - - - - - - - - -

No!! *I hope she will not seriously consider kudzu. *It is a rampant and
invasive species. *It was apparently imported to the U.S. for erosion
control and in the hope that it would make good fodder for cows. *Instead,
it has literally taken over certain areas of the south and has become a
major pest that seems to be almost immune to attempts to control it. *I
don't know if it would thrive as far north as Pat lives. *If it does, she
and everyone else in her area could live to regret it. *It will cover trees
and block out light so that they are killed, cover telephone poles, etc.
Once established, it is fast-growing and almost impossible to control. *I
remember the first time I saw it--it looked like some foliage monster out of
a horror movie that had taken over everything. *Take a look at these
pictures:http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9671/

MaryL

Kudzu is all over south FL and is a PITA, locally treated with some
evil herbicide
or other to kill it by environmental agencies there. I know what it
looks like, etc.
but your link sent me to some educational house journal of a renowned
college
in upstate NY; nothing re kudzu and when I typed it into the search
line....nada.
Another try got me a 404.
I dunno about MO where Pat lives at all. People in sourh FL diligently
avoid stuff
growing on their roofs, as during 'canes big wind finds vines, etc.
like a handy
living *lever* as it assists wind ripping off roof material, then
entire roof if wind
strong enough and blowing just right direction, leaving you in your
bathtub gazing
up at a whole lotta trouble. Cutesy "vine-covered cottages" are rare
there, except
for the very old ones still existing in areas like Coconut Grove,
where homes of
*coral rock* construction were common in Miami's early settlement
eras. My
dead body would live in or buy one of those; scorpions *love* rock
houses.
Click on the pic to enlarge photo.
http://www.miami-fl-real-estate.com/...erty/M1248863/
Big, big bucks...valuable property location. Waterfront on south end
of town where
barrier islands (Key Biscayne) protect largely from Atlantic 'canes.

In ,
MaryL typed:
"Yowie" wrote in message ...

Again, why not experiment? Get some roof shingles and grow some kudzu
on it and see what happens?

Yowie

- - - - - - - - - -

No!! I hope she will not seriously consider kudzu. It is a rampant
and invasive species. It was apparently imported to the U.S. for
erosion control and in the hope that it would make good fodder for
cows. Instead, it has literally taken over certain areas of the
south and has become a major pest that seems to be almost immune to
attempts to control it. I don't know if it would thrive as far north
as Pat lives. If it does, she and everyone else in her area could
live to regret it. It will cover trees and block out light so that
they are killed, cover telephone poles, etc. Once established, it is
fast-growing and almost impossible to control. I remember the first
time I saw it--it looked like some foliage monster out of a horror
movie that had taken over everything. Take a look at these pictures:
http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9671/


And there I was, thinking Kudzu was a variety of lawn grass!!! Ooops!

Have you thought of native grasses up on your roof, Pat?

Yowie