Modifying dangerous biting behaviour in difficult cats

We recently had a cat killed by a vet because of a second vicious and
totally unexpected biting incident. In effect, it was the end of an
unsuccessful attempt to adopt a quasi-stray 3-year old male
(originally not neutered). It caused my wife and I considerable
emotional pain because 99% of the short time we had him, the cat was
truly adorable, a unique and extremely interesting animal. A strong,
confident and vicious warrior, he was very kind and respectful to our
12 year old female tabby. I would hike up and down Burnaby Mountain
with him here in Greater Vancouver at a pace that would send most
ordinary folks to hospital. He loved it.

Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?


I have been searching the UseNet groups as well as browsing this one.
I am well aware of most of the biting behaviour mentionned and do not
see those forms of biting as a problem. Discipline biting when
irritated by excessive petting, biting during rough play, affectionate
biting and chewing, etc. That behaviour I understand and can manage
with ease. What I am referring to are reactive bites that pierce to
or almost to the bone, pierce into cartilage, and occur at lightning
speed.

The conventional wisdom is that you "put down" animals like this. We
had to because we could not risk a suburban neighbour, particularly a
child, getting bitten. I want to keep exploring just in case somebody
like an academic egg-head has come up with interesting behavioural
modification techniques that none of the folks we consulted were aware
of. (Please understand that nibbling or biting the cat's ears would
not have worked.)

regards -Erik, British Columbia

"Erik" wrote in message
om...
....Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?
....
regards -Erik, British Columbia

Erik, I wish I could help you find an answer to your question, but all I can
offer is condolences on the loss of your cat. It sounds as though you tried
your best and the decision to let him go was difficult.
Annie

"Erik" wrote in message
om...
....Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?
....
regards -Erik, British Columbia

Erik, I wish I could help you find an answer to your question, but all I can
offer is condolences on the loss of your cat. It sounds as though you tried
your best and the decision to let him go was difficult.
Annie

In article ,
enlightened us with...
We recently had a cat killed by a vet because of a second vicious and
totally unexpected biting incident.

I am very sory for your loss.


Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?


I don't believe there has been anything that is successful enough to
consider the previous biter "safe".
However, you may want to check out the following books. They are mostly
about dogs, but the principals of behavior modification are sound and
might give you a starting point. The only research I am aware of in this
area has been with dogs.
"Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor
"Shelby Marlo's New Art of Dog Training" by Shelby Marlo
"Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson
"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell

All of these authors agree that nothing with teeth is ever 100% safe as
far as biting is concerned and that respect and kindness work best.

What I am referring to are reactive bites that pierce to
or almost to the bone, pierce into cartilage, and occur at lightning
speed.


Reacting to *what*?
Sometimes animals don't learn bite inhibition. Often these are "puppy
mill" (or abandoned) animals that were taken away from their siblings
too soon and never learned how to moderate their bite. These are
dangerous animals if their new people don't teach them this immediately
while they are still young. One bite and they can seriously injure
someone because they don't know their own strength. All young animals
need to learn this skill.
Case in point. I was walking my dog the other day. She's a "rude" dog to
other dogs because she tries to climb on them to play. She doesn't
respect their space. Some dogs tolerate this. Others do not. A collie
did not. In the space of a heartbeat, the collie struck her down with a
muzzle grab. Lighting quick, my dog was chastized and on the ground. The
collie had done NO damage whatsoever. The control was amazing. If that
collie didn't have bite inhibition and control, he'd have cut her to the
bone. But she didn't have a mark on her nor did she even cry. She went
right back to playing, but more respectfully.
In nature, this is how dogs discipline each other. Swift, firm, yet
gentle enough not to do any damage.
Once an animal is an adult, it is difficult to teach them bite
inhibition because of the damage they do with one bite.

The conventional wisdom is that you "put down" animals like this.

Or keep them inside or under your control on lead at all times.
Yes, cats can be leash trained.

(Please understand that nibbling or biting the cat's ears would
not have worked.)

Um, who would ever recommend such a thing?

Again, I'm sorry for the loss of your kitty.

--
--
~kaeli~
He's your God, they're your rules - you burn in Hell.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article ,
enlightened us with...
We recently had a cat killed by a vet because of a second vicious and
totally unexpected biting incident.

I am very sory for your loss.


Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?


I don't believe there has been anything that is successful enough to
consider the previous biter "safe".
However, you may want to check out the following books. They are mostly
about dogs, but the principals of behavior modification are sound and
might give you a starting point. The only research I am aware of in this
area has been with dogs.
"Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor
"Shelby Marlo's New Art of Dog Training" by Shelby Marlo
"Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson
"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell

All of these authors agree that nothing with teeth is ever 100% safe as
far as biting is concerned and that respect and kindness work best.

What I am referring to are reactive bites that pierce to
or almost to the bone, pierce into cartilage, and occur at lightning
speed.


Reacting to *what*?
Sometimes animals don't learn bite inhibition. Often these are "puppy
mill" (or abandoned) animals that were taken away from their siblings
too soon and never learned how to moderate their bite. These are
dangerous animals if their new people don't teach them this immediately
while they are still young. One bite and they can seriously injure
someone because they don't know their own strength. All young animals
need to learn this skill.
Case in point. I was walking my dog the other day. She's a "rude" dog to
other dogs because she tries to climb on them to play. She doesn't
respect their space. Some dogs tolerate this. Others do not. A collie
did not. In the space of a heartbeat, the collie struck her down with a
muzzle grab. Lighting quick, my dog was chastized and on the ground. The
collie had done NO damage whatsoever. The control was amazing. If that
collie didn't have bite inhibition and control, he'd have cut her to the
bone. But she didn't have a mark on her nor did she even cry. She went
right back to playing, but more respectfully.
In nature, this is how dogs discipline each other. Swift, firm, yet
gentle enough not to do any damage.
Once an animal is an adult, it is difficult to teach them bite
inhibition because of the damage they do with one bite.

The conventional wisdom is that you "put down" animals like this.

Or keep them inside or under your control on lead at all times.
Yes, cats can be leash trained.

(Please understand that nibbling or biting the cat's ears would
not have worked.)

Um, who would ever recommend such a thing?

Again, I'm sorry for the loss of your kitty.

--
--
~kaeli~
He's your God, they're your rules - you burn in Hell.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...

Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?

I don't believe there has been anything that is successful enough to
consider the previous biter "safe".

Precisely. If it's a completely unexpected behavior and there are no clues
as to the trigger FOR the behavior, it's pretty much impossible to give
advice. Something IN the advice could trigger the behavior.

However, you may want to check out the following books. They are mostly
about dogs, but the principals of behavior modification are sound and
might give you a starting point. The only research I am aware of in this
area has been with dogs.
"Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor
"Shelby Marlo's New Art of Dog Training" by Shelby Marlo
"Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson
"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell

I can't help but giggle whenever McConnell is mentioned. I've a friend
taking one of her classes, and our previous canine behavior coordinator
works with her regularly.

All of these authors agree that nothing with teeth is ever 100% safe as
far as biting is concerned and that respect and kindness work best.

And no one is more familiar with the truth of that statement than shelter
workers.

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...

Can somebody please direct me to animal behaviour literature that
would suggest techniques of how to modify dangerous biting behaviour?

I don't believe there has been anything that is successful enough to
consider the previous biter "safe".

Precisely. If it's a completely unexpected behavior and there are no clues
as to the trigger FOR the behavior, it's pretty much impossible to give
advice. Something IN the advice could trigger the behavior.

However, you may want to check out the following books. They are mostly
about dogs, but the principals of behavior modification are sound and
might give you a starting point. The only research I am aware of in this
area has been with dogs.
"Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor
"Shelby Marlo's New Art of Dog Training" by Shelby Marlo
"Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson
"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell

I can't help but giggle whenever McConnell is mentioned. I've a friend
taking one of her classes, and our previous canine behavior coordinator
works with her regularly.

All of these authors agree that nothing with teeth is ever 100% safe as
far as biting is concerned and that respect and kindness work best.

And no one is more familiar with the truth of that statement than shelter
workers.

In the first biting incident, my wife's hand became completely swollen
and unusable for about a week. [That was an expensive bite as she
works for herself.]

In the second incident, I had completed another hike up Burnaby mtn
and was once again about to carry the cat across a busy 3-lane road
(the third time I would carry the cat that evening) when he bit me
deeply into the cartlidge of my noise and then used his claws to push
off my forehead missing my right eye by a mm or two. There was blood
all over the place. I am fine BTW; after Hep A, cerebral malaria,
amoebic dysentry (sp?), staph infections, etc., I probably have an
immunity or two built up. Other people do not.

If it was just up to us, we might have kept the cat. Too much respect
for neighbours and small children lead us to put the animal down.

Thanks for the dog-training references. I am an amateur but I
consider cat socialization and dog socialization to be very, very
different.

In the first biting incident, my wife's hand became completely swollen
and unusable for about a week. [That was an expensive bite as she
works for herself.]

In the second incident, I had completed another hike up Burnaby mtn
and was once again about to carry the cat across a busy 3-lane road
(the third time I would carry the cat that evening) when he bit me
deeply into the cartlidge of my noise and then used his claws to push
off my forehead missing my right eye by a mm or two. There was blood
all over the place. I am fine BTW; after Hep A, cerebral malaria,
amoebic dysentry (sp?), staph infections, etc., I probably have an
immunity or two built up. Other people do not.

If it was just up to us, we might have kept the cat. Too much respect
for neighbours and small children lead us to put the animal down.

Thanks for the dog-training references. I am an amateur but I
consider cat socialization and dog socialization to be very, very
different.

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Thanks for the dog-training references. I am an amateur but I
consider cat socialization and dog socialization to be very, very
different.



You consider them very different because you are an amateur.
(note: I'm certainly no professional myself)

Behaviorism is behaviorism. It works in people, monkeys, dolphins, dogs,
and cats, among other mammals. In fact, clicker training, now applied to
dogs and cats, originated with dolphin training. Dolphins are certainly
nothing like cats. Yet the principles of behaviorism (mainly positive
and negative reinforcement and the affects on behavior) hold for both.
Interesting, eh?

--
--
~kaeli~
Dijon vu - the same mustard as before.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace