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In ,
GAUBSTER2 composed with style: They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus, nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc. Well, shouldn't we be? Kidney disease is a MAJOR problem in cats, and yet you act as if you can't be bothered w/ it? It seems to me that those low phosphorus levels aren't coming from foods with meat as the main protein source. |
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om... "Ann Martin" wrote in message All these people Since your post is entitled: " Crane, Gaubster, PhilP", "All these people" include me. have stated that this industry is regulated. Another example of your misrepresentation of other people's statements. I did not say the industry was regulated. Cite the post wherein I said the industry was regulated, otherwise, I'm publicly calling you a *LIAR*. ....and you wonder why people think you're a flim flam artist trying to hustle books by playing on other peoples' fear... ingredient definitions applied to both livestock feed and PET FOOD. To once again clarify your manipulation of my statement, I did not say the ingredients definitions were different between the two types of food, I said ingredients used in feed for livestock were not used in cat food. Regarding your pentobarbital scare tactic, *your* own source did not imply or suggest the drug - obviously in the trace amounts found - posed any danger. In fact, your own source said: "The conclusion arrived at (by the FDA/CVM) was this drug was "probably" safe." No danger was found. Therefore, the pentobarbital scare was *your* *fabrication* and you're even continuing to perpetuate the scare tactic and rumor! You're lucky you're not inconvenienced by morals and conscience! I and others are *still* waiting for you to produce a *single* documented case of pentobarbital toxicity in the *hundreds of millions* of cats that have been eating commercial cat food for *generations* -- who are in fact, living longer today than they have in the past. I'd say your credibility isn't looking too good -- In fact I'd say its shot! |
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om... "Ann Martin" wrote in message All these people Since your post is entitled: " Crane, Gaubster, PhilP", "All these people" include me. have stated that this industry is regulated. Another example of your misrepresentation of other people's statements. I did not say the industry was regulated. Cite the post wherein I said the industry was regulated, otherwise, I'm publicly calling you a *LIAR*. ....and you wonder why people think you're a flim flam artist trying to hustle books by playing on other peoples' fear... ingredient definitions applied to both livestock feed and PET FOOD. To once again clarify your manipulation of my statement, I did not say the ingredients definitions were different between the two types of food, I said ingredients used in feed for livestock were not used in cat food. Regarding your pentobarbital scare tactic, *your* own source did not imply or suggest the drug - obviously in the trace amounts found - posed any danger. In fact, your own source said: "The conclusion arrived at (by the FDA/CVM) was this drug was "probably" safe." No danger was found. Therefore, the pentobarbital scare was *your* *fabrication* and you're even continuing to perpetuate the scare tactic and rumor! You're lucky you're not inconvenienced by morals and conscience! I and others are *still* waiting for you to produce a *single* documented case of pentobarbital toxicity in the *hundreds of millions* of cats that have been eating commercial cat food for *generations* -- who are in fact, living longer today than they have in the past. I'd say your credibility isn't looking too good -- In fact I'd say its shot! |
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:24 -0400, "Cheryl"
wrote: It seems to me that those low phosphorus levels aren't coming from foods with meat as the main protein source. Very well observed. I had a phone talk once with a vet working for a pet food manufacturer and asked him, how they'd arrive at the low phos for the kidney diets. He said "Well, it would be impossible to reduce the phos once it's in the food, so we just don't add stuff that we do add to the normal food." I suspect that most of the phos is introduced either as inorganic additive (to improve processing?), or is of plant byproduct origin. Why would producers (here in Germany) drag their feet to declare phos content if there wasn't a reason for it they are unwilling to expose? BTW, when I did my reading about pet food, it appeared to me that *diet* pet foods in the US are not regulated at all. Eb |
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:24 -0400, "Cheryl"
wrote: It seems to me that those low phosphorus levels aren't coming from foods with meat as the main protein source. Very well observed. I had a phone talk once with a vet working for a pet food manufacturer and asked him, how they'd arrive at the low phos for the kidney diets. He said "Well, it would be impossible to reduce the phos once it's in the food, so we just don't add stuff that we do add to the normal food." I suspect that most of the phos is introduced either as inorganic additive (to improve processing?), or is of plant byproduct origin. Why would producers (here in Germany) drag their feet to declare phos content if there wasn't a reason for it they are unwilling to expose? BTW, when I did my reading about pet food, it appeared to me that *diet* pet foods in the US are not regulated at all. Eb |
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From: E. Kunze
On 1 Sep 2003 05:11:46 -0700, (Ann Martin) wrote: There will be no more shouting as I will not be responding to these people again. I'd very much regret that. Though I'm not quite sure yet as to how far I agree with you, I feel that some provocative voices might be beneficial to all our pets, even if the only effect would be to encourage more people responsible for pets to acquire more knowledge. Absolutely! I think it's important for people to learn about what they are feeding their pets. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#40
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From: "Cheryl"
GAUBSTER2 composed with style: They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus, nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc. Well, shouldn't we be? Kidney disease is a MAJOR problem in cats, and yet you act as if you can't be bothered w/ it? It seems to me that those low phosphorus levels aren't coming from foods with meat as the main protein source. I recently read a study that said kidney disease in cats may actually be related to vaccines. Of course more studies are needed, but it sure makes you think what it is that really causes CRF: PARENTERAL ADMINISTRATION OF FVRCP VACCINES INDUCES ANTIBODIES AGAINST FELINE RENAL TISSUES. MR Lappin, WA Jensen, R Chandrashekar, and SD Kinney. From the Department of Clinical Sciences (Lappin), Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO and the Heska Corporation, Fort Collins CO (Jensen, Chandrashekar, and Kinney). Chronic renal failure is a common cause of death in cats. Lymphocytic/plasmacytic interstitial nephritis is common histopathologically, suggesting immune-mediated reactions may play a role. Feline herpesvirus 1, calicivirus, and panleukopenia virus for use in feline vaccines (FVRCP) are commonly grown in Crandall-Reese Feline Kidney (CRFK) cells. As a consequence, commercially available FVRCP vaccines contain CRFK proteins. The objectives of this study were to determine whether cats inoculated with FVRCP vaccines develop antibodies against CRFK cell extracts and if so, to determine if these antibodies reacted with extracts of feline renal tissue (FRT). Fourteen age-matched, mixed-sex, unvaccinated kittens were divided into seven pairs. To each pair of kittens, one of the following was administered: 10µg of CRFK protein SQ; 50µg of CRFK protein SQ; 50µg of CRFK protein plus an aluminum adjuvant SQ; a FVRCP vaccine for intranasal administration, or one of three FVRCP vaccines for SQ administration. The concentration of CRFK protein used was comparable to the range detected in the vaccines. Kittens receiving CRFK proteins were inoculated every two to four weeks for a total of eight times during the study period and kittens receiving vaccines were inoculated every three weeks for three inoculations. Serum samples were collected prior to inoculation and six months later. ELISAs to detect feline antibodies that bind to CRFK cell extracts or FRT extracts were optimized. All sera were assayed in both ELISAs and absorbance values calculated. An individual cat was considered positive for antibodies against either CRFK cell extracts or FRT extracts if the mean absorbance value of duplicate post-inoculation wells was greater than the mean plus three standard deviations of the 14 pre-inoculation sample absorbance values. None of the cats was positive for antibodies against CRFK or FRT extracts prior to inoculation. All six kittens inoculated with CRFK proteins were positive for anti-CRFK antibodies in the post-inoculation sample; five of these six kittens were positive for anti-FRT antibodies. Neither cat inoculated with the intranasal FVRCP vaccine was positive for anti-CRFK or anti-FRT antibodies post-inoculation. Of the cats inoculated with FVRCP vaccines SQ, five of six and four of six were positive for anti-CRFK antibodies or anti-FRT antibodies in the post-inoculation sample, respectively. Administration of FVRCP vaccines SQ to cats can induce antibody responses to CRFK proteins and feline renal tissues. Further research will be needed to define the role of these autoantibodies in the development of chronic renal failure in cats. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
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