Help - urination

I'm wondering if anyone in this group can help me. I have two
neutered male cats, one 14, the other 9 years. My problem boy is the
younger cat, Smudge. Ever since he was a few months old he has
exhibited strong marking behaviour - which is odd because he was
neutered at 4 months, and the other cat, his role model, virtually
stopped spraying after he was neutered, as near as I can figure, around
2 years. That was long before Smudge came on the scene.

The territorial spraying is bad enough, but it is compounded with his
peeing behaviour. When we babysat a neighbor cat for a few weeks at
our place, he used to pee on her stuff - a catnipped stuffed toy
mouse that came with her, literally SOAKED with urine, yuck. (Yes, I
caught him doing it). So I know that he occasionally uses peeing as a
form of marking.

Finally - probably the worst problem since it occurs the most
frequently and is the hardest to track and clean - his general
urination behaviour. I doubt very much that this is marking, although
I could be wrong. I should mention that he is a highly inquisitive
cat, much more so than any other feline I've owned (his parents were
barn cats, and I should have known better than to take an animal with
this background). He used to follow me around when he was a kitten
(still does although not to the same obsessive degree) and watch me
like a hawk. For example, if I put some bread in the toaster, I had to
be careful not to turn my back or he'd be on the counter sticking his
paws down the toaster slot to find out what I'd put in there. As a
result of his constant observation of me and sometimes imitation, he
taught himself to pee in the toilet. (No joke, no troll...) I've
seen him balanced on the toilet seat, peeing, and found evidence during
times that I haven't been home that he must have used the facilities.
The problem is that he's generalized the idea to understand that
any sort of bowl-like receptacle, especially if it contains water, is
an acceptable substitute. He pees in the bathroom sinks, in the tub
.... (both white porcelain) ... he was peeing in his water dish for a
while until I replaced it with a tall plastic jug. I've just moved
into an upscale condo with a lot of beautiful fixtures, including some
very lovely air duct covers and closures for the furnace vents made of,
you guessed it, white porcelain. I finally figured out why the house
reeked whenever the furnace came on.

I've replaced the more accessible vents with the cheap metal variety.
He still peed in them. I've put those plastic covers that direct
the air horizontally over the suspect vents, and found that he now pees
AROUND the area, since he can no longer lower his butt into the vent.
Sigh.

All the vets I've talked to say, bring him in for tests to determine
whether or no he has a physiological problem. I KNOW that this is a
behavioural issue, at least, I'm certain enough that I'd prefer to
work psychology on him rather than pay for several hundred dollars of
tests that will likely offer me nothing.

Does anyone out there have suggestions?

"james" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm wondering if anyone in this group can help me. I have two
neutered male cats, one 14, the other 9 years. My problem boy is the
younger cat, Smudge. Ever since he was a few months old he has
exhibited strong marking behaviour - which is odd because he was
neutered at 4 months, and the other cat, his role model, virtually
stopped spraying after he was neutered, as near as I can figure, around
2 years. That was long before Smudge came on the scene.

The territorial spraying is bad enough, but it is compounded with his
peeing behaviour. When we babysat a neighbor cat for a few weeks at
our place, he used to pee on her stuff - a catnipped stuffed toy
mouse that came with her, literally SOAKED with urine, yuck. (Yes, I
caught him doing it). So I know that he occasionally uses peeing as a
form of marking.

Finally - probably the worst problem since it occurs the most
frequently and is the hardest to track and clean - his general
urination behaviour. I doubt very much that this is marking, although
I could be wrong. I should mention that he is a highly inquisitive
cat, much more so than any other feline I've owned (his parents were
barn cats, and I should have known better than to take an animal with
this background). He used to follow me around when he was a kitten
(still does although not to the same obsessive degree) and watch me
like a hawk. For example, if I put some bread in the toaster, I had to
be careful not to turn my back or he'd be on the counter sticking his
paws down the toaster slot to find out what I'd put in there. As a
result of his constant observation of me and sometimes imitation, he
taught himself to pee in the toilet. (No joke, no troll...) I've
seen him balanced on the toilet seat, peeing, and found evidence during
times that I haven't been home that he must have used the facilities.
The problem is that he's generalized the idea to understand that
any sort of bowl-like receptacle, especially if it contains water, is
an acceptable substitute. He pees in the bathroom sinks, in the tub
... (both white porcelain) ... he was peeing in his water dish for a
while until I replaced it with a tall plastic jug. I've just moved
into an upscale condo with a lot of beautiful fixtures, including some
very lovely air duct covers and closures for the furnace vents made of,
you guessed it, white porcelain. I finally figured out why the house
reeked whenever the furnace came on.

I've replaced the more accessible vents with the cheap metal variety.
He still peed in them. I've put those plastic covers that direct
the air horizontally over the suspect vents, and found that he now pees
AROUND the area, since he can no longer lower his butt into the vent.
Sigh.

All the vets I've talked to say, bring him in for tests to determine
whether or no he has a physiological problem. I KNOW that this is a
behavioural issue, at least, I'm certain enough that I'd prefer to
work psychology on him rather than pay for several hundred dollars of
tests that will likely offer me nothing.

Does anyone out there have suggestions?


I'd take him to the vet and have some testing done. If it's a medical
problem, it could eventually be life threatening, particularly in a male
cat. If it's a medical problem, you won't be able to change the behavior
until the problem is resolved. It might not require you spending several
hundred dollars. Start with a relatively inexpensive urine test and see
where that goes.

W

These links might help

http://www.fabcats.org/spraying.html
http://www.apbc.org.uk/article10.htm
--
Alison
http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/


"james" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm wondering if anyone in this group can help me. I have two
neutered male cats, one 14, the other 9 years. My problem boy is the
younger cat, Smudge. Ever since he was a few months old he has
exhibited strong marking behaviour - which is odd because he was
neutered at 4 months, and the other cat, his role model, virtually
stopped spraying after he was neutered, as near as I can figure, around
2 years. That was long before Smudge came on the scene.

The territorial spraying is bad enough, but it is compounded with his
peeing behaviour. When we babysat a neighbor cat for a few weeks at
our place, he used to pee on her stuff - a catnipped stuffed toy
mouse that came with her, literally SOAKED with urine, yuck. (Yes, I
caught him doing it). So I know that he occasionally uses peeing as a
form of marking.

Finally - probably the worst problem since it occurs the most
frequently and is the hardest to track and clean - his general
urination behaviour. I doubt very much that this is marking, although
I could be wrong. I should mention that he is a highly inquisitive
cat, much more so than any other feline I've owned (his parents were
barn cats, and I should have known better than to take an animal with
this background). He used to follow me around when he was a kitten
(still does although not to the same obsessive degree) and watch me
like a hawk. For example, if I put some bread in the toaster, I had to
be careful not to turn my back or he'd be on the counter sticking his
paws down the toaster slot to find out what I'd put in there. As a
result of his constant observation of me and sometimes imitation, he
taught himself to pee in the toilet. (No joke, no troll...) I've
seen him balanced on the toilet seat, peeing, and found evidence during
times that I haven't been home that he must have used the facilities.
The problem is that he's generalized the idea to understand that
any sort of bowl-like receptacle, especially if it contains water, is
an acceptable substitute. He pees in the bathroom sinks, in the tub
... (both white porcelain) ... he was peeing in his water dish for a
while until I replaced it with a tall plastic jug. I've just moved
into an upscale condo with a lot of beautiful fixtures, including some
very lovely air duct covers and closures for the furnace vents made of,
you guessed it, white porcelain. I finally figured out why the house
reeked whenever the furnace came on.

I've replaced the more accessible vents with the cheap metal variety.
He still peed in them. I've put those plastic covers that direct
the air horizontally over the suspect vents, and found that he now pees
AROUND the area, since he can no longer lower his butt into the vent.
Sigh.

All the vets I've talked to say, bring him in for tests to determine
whether or no he has a physiological problem. I KNOW that this is a
behavioural issue, at least, I'm certain enough that I'd prefer to
work psychology on him rather than pay for several hundred dollars of
tests that will likely offer me nothing.

Does anyone out there have suggestions?

All the vets I've talked to say, bring him in for tests to determine
whether or no he has a physiological problem. I KNOW that this is a
behavioural issue, at least, I'm certain enough that I'd prefer to
work psychology on him rather than pay for several hundred dollars of
tests that will likely offer me nothing.

Why not take him in for the urine test (it's not expensive) even just to
prove your point to the vets. At least, then you'll know for sure whether
it's psychological or possibly a bladder infection. Then go from there. I
trust you have more than one litter box? With 2 cats, you should have 2
boxes or even 3. And make sure it's scooped as many times a day as possible.

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Urinary tract problems need to be ruled out first. A simple urine test will
tell if there is a problem. You cannot assume it is not one.
Gail
"Alison" wrote in message
...
These links might help

http://www.fabcats.org/spraying.html
http://www.apbc.org.uk/article10.htm
--
Alison
http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/


"james" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm wondering if anyone in this group can help me. I have two
neutered male cats, one 14, the other 9 years. My problem boy is the
younger cat, Smudge. Ever since he was a few months old he has
exhibited strong marking behaviour - which is odd because he was
neutered at 4 months, and the other cat, his role model, virtually
stopped spraying after he was neutered, as near as I can figure, around
2 years. That was long before Smudge came on the scene.

The territorial spraying is bad enough, but it is compounded with his
peeing behaviour. When we babysat a neighbor cat for a few weeks at
our place, he used to pee on her stuff - a catnipped stuffed toy
mouse that came with her, literally SOAKED with urine, yuck. (Yes, I
caught him doing it). So I know that he occasionally uses peeing as a
form of marking.

Finally - probably the worst problem since it occurs the most
frequently and is the hardest to track and clean - his general
urination behaviour. I doubt very much that this is marking, although
I could be wrong. I should mention that he is a highly inquisitive
cat, much more so than any other feline I've owned (his parents were
barn cats, and I should have known better than to take an animal with
this background). He used to follow me around when he was a kitten
(still does although not to the same obsessive degree) and watch me
like a hawk. For example, if I put some bread in the toaster, I had to
be careful not to turn my back or he'd be on the counter sticking his
paws down the toaster slot to find out what I'd put in there. As a
result of his constant observation of me and sometimes imitation, he
taught himself to pee in the toilet. (No joke, no troll...) I've
seen him balanced on the toilet seat, peeing, and found evidence during
times that I haven't been home that he must have used the facilities.
The problem is that he's generalized the idea to understand that
any sort of bowl-like receptacle, especially if it contains water, is
an acceptable substitute. He pees in the bathroom sinks, in the tub
... (both white porcelain) ... he was peeing in his water dish for a
while until I replaced it with a tall plastic jug. I've just moved
into an upscale condo with a lot of beautiful fixtures, including some
very lovely air duct covers and closures for the furnace vents made of,
you guessed it, white porcelain. I finally figured out why the house
reeked whenever the furnace came on.

I've replaced the more accessible vents with the cheap metal variety.
He still peed in them. I've put those plastic covers that direct
the air horizontally over the suspect vents, and found that he now pees
AROUND the area, since he can no longer lower his butt into the vent.
Sigh.

All the vets I've talked to say, bring him in for tests to determine
whether or no he has a physiological problem. I KNOW that this is a
behavioural issue, at least, I'm certain enough that I'd prefer to
work psychology on him rather than pay for several hundred dollars of
tests that will likely offer me nothing.

Does anyone out there have suggestions?

NMR via CatKB.com wrote:

Why not take him in for the urine test (it's not expensive) even just to
prove your point to the vets. At least, then you'll know for sure whether
it's psychological or possibly a bladder infection. Then go from there. I
trust you have more than one litter box? With 2 cats, you should have 2
boxes or even 3. And make sure it's scooped as many times a day as possible.

You've convinced me. I will schedule an appointment. I doubt that
it'll help though. He's been doing this since he was an adolescent
cat, and I really think it is behavioral. Why have I let it go so
long? Until very recently (the move to the new condo) he has always
had access to the outside world, and his forays into the world of
indoor peeing were few and far between. His peeing in the tub was not
a huge problem since clean up was very easy.

Three large litter boxes for two cats - changed daily. I've read the
material on indoor spraying - but it just doesn't resonate with me.
According to both links, spraying is the resort of a nervous cat. I'm
really doubtful that Smudge fits that profile - Buddy, the other cat is
his surrogate parent, and since he was young, has played with him,
slept with him, licked him clean and protected when he was still too
small to do it himself. They still play and sleep together. The
behaviour seems more linked to boredom and the fact that he got used to
spraying and not using his litter box when he was an outdoor cat.