New cat integration update - Megan's no help any more. Need info.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:46:06 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER wrote:


"Brian Link" wrote in message
.. .
snip
The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice
to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with
cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen
door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but
not violent.

We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today
my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the
room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen
door.

Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this
introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY".
Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard
screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was
very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift...

Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry
and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's
left me alone in this process.
snip
BLink


You know, Brian, it is really unfairof you to say that Megan has "left you
alone" in this process. You clearly indicated that you had not followed
some of her advice -- yet she was willing to offer more help, but only if
you followed exactly what she said. That was fair warning, but you ignored
it again. Megan probably does not need anyone to come to her defense, but I
am doing so because she gave me a *great deal* of help when I wanted to
introduce Holly to Duffy. I did explicitly follow her advice -- and had
numerous questions for her throughout the process -- and the results have
been everything I could have hoped for. Holly previously had been so
aggressive to every cat that was in my presence that we called her "the
black tornado." There is a later message in this thread (from "W") which
links to a previous message of mine in which I described the process.
Ironically, all of that was really based on excellent advice from Megan.
She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I always followed
those instructions.

At this point, I would suggest that you try to follow through on the
suggestions that have been given to you. You must be totally committed to
the process if you want to be successful. Yes, some people have been able
to just "throw two cats together and let them work it out themselves," but
that approach has often been a recipe for disaster. Right now, you need to
take a very *slow and careful* approach to the introduction. That was part
of the excellent advice Megan gave me. Every time I was tempted to try to
speed up the process, she would remind me to take it easy -- and she was
right. So, begin again, take it very carefully -- and be aware that you
have undoubtedly cost yourself valuable time by ignoring some sound advice.
In other words, it will probably take even *more* time now because serious
mistakes have been made.

If you want it, I will email a document that I have sent to several people
in which I described the introduction process (much of which is in the link
that "W" provided. All you need to do is send email to me and request it.
Be aware, though, that almost everything I learned came originally from
Megan. Some of the little steps she walked me through turned out to be the
most important. You just can't take shortcuts and expect it to work as
well. Incidentally, she is not so simplistic as to say that every cat will
respond in the same way, but she has had so much experience that she can
usually recognize what steps will work best and what needs to be modified.

The two links below my signature are a pictorial "history" of some of the
integration process with Holly and Duffy.

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")


Thanks for the info. Please don't get me wrong, I have incredible
respect for Megan's skills, and I like her. And as far as some of the
other posts here go, she was not giving me a pre-printed formula for
how to introduce cats. She knows my household and backstory. Her plan
was well thought-out, but I fumbled by not knowing which pieces of
advice were essential, and which were not. I guess I'm feeling a
little sad that she threw up her hands and left me to fend - because I
actually like her quite a bit, and was hoping to have her online for a
resource and friend.

As far as the introduction, I have good reason to be careful. In the
past (11 cats over my lifetime) I've had pretty good luck "just
throwing them together". However, when we adopted a stray (see the
"Henry" posts) the house went nuts. Henry was not sociable, and Louis
the Bengal totally freaked out. Fights, flying fur, blood; the whole 9
yards. We finally had to surrender Henry because we didn't have the
time to do a proper, careful integration, and Megan saved our
household - and Henry - by looking for fosters and finally adopting
him. I will always be grateful for that - and the visit she allowed me
and my son to see her amazing, happy menagerie.

I REALLY don't want to open up the old flame-wars regarding Megan. I'm
on her side - she's demonstrated her competence. Until now she's
seemed friendly and affable - but I was pretty stunned when she
basically washed her hands of me.

Ultimately though, it's her choice what she does with her time, since
she was basically volunteering as an expert. I'm glad to have known
her.

All the cats involved are very, very sweet. I hope we have luck
integrating them all.

Luckily, there's other expertise in this newsgroup, and I'm grateful
for your advice.

BLink

Brian Link wrote:
Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been
living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier
hybrid in an uneasy truce. She's relocated to Minnesota with her
owner, my son's girlfriend. The girlfriend will take the cat with her
when she goes to college next year. We currently own a 10 year old
Maine-Coonish moggie and a 2 year old Bengal. We've had a previous bad
experience adopting a stray male, neutered when we took him into the
house. He and the Bengal mixed it up.

The first week went well. Chloe is a wonderful kitty with a great
temperament, but she's easily overstimulated - which I attribute to
her front paw declawing (present at adoption). She hisses but doesn't
strike, and I figure it's just a matter of learning her cues. She was
cloistered in my son's girlfriend's room.

The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice
to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with
cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen
door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but
not violent.

We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today
my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the
room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen
door.

Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this
introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY".
Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard
screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was
very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift...

Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry
and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's
left me alone in this process. All the things that folks here have
complained about seem to have a grain of truth in them - in that Megan
needs to have total control. Maybe she's a savant who can see the
perfect disposition for kitties. I don't doubt for a minute that she
loves cats and has great expertise in their handling - I've seen her
work firsthand and it's amazing. But I've ****ed her off and no longer
have the luxury of her help.

So now I'm trying to reconstruct what she's suggested to me about the
integration of these kitties. And now I turn to this newsgroup to help
me with a new cat.

1. One week behind closed doors
2. One day with an open screen door, where the residents regarded her
passively, but she felt threatened and hissed. (this was where I
dropped the ball and didn't follow/understand Megan's instructions)
3. Another few days behind closed doors.
4. One escape, where she smelled the other cats and got upset
5. Another week behind closed doors.
6. "mommy" (my son's girlfriend) on vacation, install screen door with
cardboard blocks in place.

What's next? I've apparently squandered my relationship with Megan, so
need help from the newsgroup.

My impulse is to introduce Chloe to the residents under supervision.
However, the Bengal reacted quite badly to the neutered male we
brought in. Perhaps an older, spayed female would be different. I've
trusted Megan's instructions in the past, but now since she's written
me off, I have to rely on my past experience, and other folks on this
newsgroup.

I feel like I have no allies. I hope someone will chime in with
suggestions.

Thanks, as always, for any info.

BLink

Brian Link wrote:
Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been
living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier
hybrid in an uneasy truce. She's relocated to Minnesota with her
owner, my son's girlfriend. The girlfriend will take the cat with her
when she goes to college next year. We currently own a 10 year old
Maine-Coonish moggie and a 2 year old Bengal. We've had a previous bad
experience adopting a stray male, neutered when we took him into the
house. He and the Bengal mixed it up.

The first week went well. Chloe is a wonderful kitty with a great
temperament, but she's easily overstimulated - which I attribute to
her front paw declawing (present at adoption). She hisses but doesn't
strike, and I figure it's just a matter of learning her cues. She was
cloistered in my son's girlfriend's room.

The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice
to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with
cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen
door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but
not violent.

We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today
my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the
room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen
door.

Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this
introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY".
Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard
screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was
very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift...

Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry
and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's
left me alone in this process. All the things that folks here have
complained about seem to have a grain of truth in them - in that Megan
needs to have total control. Maybe she's a savant who can see the
perfect disposition for kitties. I don't doubt for a minute that she
loves cats and has great expertise in their handling - I've seen her
work firsthand and it's amazing. But I've ****ed her off and no longer
have the luxury of her help.

So now I'm trying to reconstruct what she's suggested to me about the
integration of these kitties. And now I turn to this newsgroup to help
me with a new cat.

1. One week behind closed doors
2. One day with an open screen door, where the residents regarded her
passively, but she felt threatened and hissed. (this was where I
dropped the ball and didn't follow/understand Megan's instructions)
3. Another few days behind closed doors.
4. One escape, where she smelled the other cats and got upset
5. Another week behind closed doors.
6. "mommy" (my son's girlfriend) on vacation, install screen door with
cardboard blocks in place.

What's next? I've apparently squandered my relationship with Megan, so
need help from the newsgroup.

My impulse is to introduce Chloe to the residents under supervision.
However, the Bengal reacted quite badly to the neutered male we
brought in. Perhaps an older, spayed female would be different. I've
trusted Megan's instructions in the past, but now since she's written
me off, I have to rely on my past experience, and other folks on this
newsgroup.

I feel like I have no allies. I hope someone will chime in with
suggestions.

Thanks, as always, for any info.

BLink

Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll
chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently).

I think there's an element of you airing your dirty laundry here that
is unattractive. It's one thing to flame other people on the newsgroup
who you have disagreements with but it's kinda tacky for you to flame
Megan since you have a personal relationship with her. You've been to
her house, you've posted pics of her cats, you've sung her praises, and
you've dumped the cat that was inconvenient to you on her who she is
now caring for. And now you want her help again but don't listen to
her. No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could
have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at
all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do.
It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift
horse in the mouth, as it were.

That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat
problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even
though I've had him for 14 months and even though I did what Megan and
everyone else said to do. Everyone always says it always works out if
you do all the right things. Wrong. Maybe it'll work out someday for
me but not yet. Maybe it won't work for you either. So do what the
other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the
girl, your son, and her cat out.

Candace

On 23 Aug 2005 18:55:26 -0700, "Candace" wrote:

Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll
chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently).

Megan is a nut.

I think there's an element of you airing your dirty laundry here that
is unattractive. It's one thing to flame other people on the newsgroup
who you have disagreements with but it's kinda tacky for you to flame
Megan since you have a personal relationship with her. You've been to
her house, you've posted pics of her cats, you've sung her praises, and
you've dumped the cat that was inconvenient to you on her who she is
now caring for. And now you want her help again but don't listen to
her. No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could

I wouldn't be, because I would have no expectations. Brian is a nut
too.

have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at
all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do.
It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift
horse in the mouth, as it were.

A fat dose of Megan is a dubious gift.

That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat
problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even
though I've had him for 14 months and even though I did what Megan and
everyone else said to do. Everyone always says it always works out if
you do all the right things. Wrong. Maybe it'll work out someday for
me but not yet. Maybe it won't work for you either. So do what the
other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the
girl, your son, and her cat out.

I think your situation is somewhat unusual. What would happen if you
didn't separate your cats?

It's certainly wise to follow an orderly process when introducing the
animals, but at some point, I think Brian could just put them in a
room together and see what happens. Maybe when they are both good and
hungry, so he can distract them with food if they start to act feisty.
It seems to me that animals who can be taught to eat peacefully
together will get along the rest of the time, generally. I know there
are many exceptions. Brian may find that he has no problems to speak
of.

Charlie

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
news:22LOe.2158$UI.853@okepread05...

"Brian Link" wrote in message
...
snip
The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice
to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with
cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen
door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but
not violent.

We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today
my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the
room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen
door.

Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this
introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY".
Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard
screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was
very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift...

Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry
and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's
left me alone in this process.
snip
BLink


You know, Brian, it is really unfairof you to say that Megan has "left you
alone" in this process. You clearly indicated that you had not followed
some of her advice -- yet she was willing to offer more help, but only if
you followed exactly what she said. That was fair warning, but you
ignored it again. Megan probably does not need anyone to come to her
defense, but I am doing so because she gave me a *great deal* of help when
I wanted to introduce Holly to Duffy. I did explicitly follow her
advice -- and had numerous questions for her throughout the process -- and
the results have been everything I could have hoped for. Holly previously
had been so aggressive to every cat that was in my presence that we called
her "the black tornado." There is a later message in this thread (from
"W") which links to a previous message of mine in which I described the
process. Ironically, all of that was really based on excellent advice from
Megan. She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I always
followed those instructions.

At this point, I would suggest that you try to follow through on the
suggestions that have been given to you. You must be totally committed to
the process if you want to be successful. Yes, some people have been able
to just "throw two cats together and let them work it out themselves," but
that approach has often been a recipe for disaster. Right now, you need
to take a very *slow and careful* approach to the introduction. That was
part of the excellent advice Megan gave me. Every time I was tempted to
try to speed up the process, she would remind me to take it easy -- and
she was right. So, begin again, take it very carefully -- and be aware
that you have undoubtedly cost yourself valuable time by ignoring some
sound advice. In other words, it will probably take even *more* time now
because serious mistakes have been made.

If you want it, I will email a document that I have sent to several people
in which I described the introduction process (much of which is in the
link that "W" provided. All you need to do is send email to me and
request it. Be aware, though, that almost everything I learned came
originally from Megan. Some of the little steps she walked me through
turned out to be the most important. You just can't take shortcuts and
expect it to work as well. Incidentally, she is not so simplistic as to
say that every cat will respond in the same way, but she has had so much
experience that she can usually recognize what steps will work best and
what needs to be modified.

The two links below my signature are a pictorial "history" of some of the
integration process with Holly and Duffy.

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

Sorry about the "W". That's what happens when you get interrupted in the
middle of doing something. I hope you didn't mind my posting that link but I
remembered you talking about the introduction before and had seen the
pictures. Figured between the two He'd be able to figure it out.

W

"Wendy" wrote in message
...

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
news:22LOe.2158$UI.853@okepread05...

snip
There is a later message in this thread (from
"W") which links to a previous message of mine in which I described the
process. Ironically, all of that was really based on excellent advice
from Megan. She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I
always followed those instructions.

snip

MaryL

Sorry about the "W". That's what happens when you get interrupted in the
middle of doing something. I hope you didn't mind my posting that link but
I remembered you talking about the introduction before and had seen the
pictures. Figured between the two He'd be able to figure it out.

W


No, actually I was very pleased to see that you had posted the link (and
glad to know who "W" is). It's always nice to see that someone thinks that
information I have posted is helpful.

Thanks!

MaryL

On 23 Aug 2005 18:55:26 -0700, "Candace" wrote:

Brian Link wrote:
Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been
living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier
hybrid in an uneasy truce. She's relocated to Minnesota with her
owner, my son's girlfriend. The girlfriend will take the cat with her
when she goes to college next year. We currently own a 10 year old
Maine-Coonish moggie and a 2 year old Bengal. We've had a previous bad
experience adopting a stray male, neutered when we took him into the
house. He and the Bengal mixed it up.

The first week went well. Chloe is a wonderful kitty with a great
temperament, but she's easily overstimulated - which I attribute to
her front paw declawing (present at adoption). She hisses but doesn't
strike, and I figure it's just a matter of learning her cues. She was
cloistered in my son's girlfriend's room.

The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice
to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with
cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen
door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but
not violent.

We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today
my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the
room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen
door.

Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this
introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY".
Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard
screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was
very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift...

Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry
and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's
left me alone in this process. All the things that folks here have
complained about seem to have a grain of truth in them - in that Megan
needs to have total control. Maybe she's a savant who can see the
perfect disposition for kitties. I don't doubt for a minute that she
loves cats and has great expertise in their handling - I've seen her
work firsthand and it's amazing. But I've ****ed her off and no longer
have the luxury of her help.

So now I'm trying to reconstruct what she's suggested to me about the
integration of these kitties. And now I turn to this newsgroup to help
me with a new cat.

1. One week behind closed doors
2. One day with an open screen door, where the residents regarded her
passively, but she felt threatened and hissed. (this was where I
dropped the ball and didn't follow/understand Megan's instructions)
3. Another few days behind closed doors.
4. One escape, where she smelled the other cats and got upset
5. Another week behind closed doors.
6. "mommy" (my son's girlfriend) on vacation, install screen door with
cardboard blocks in place.

What's next? I've apparently squandered my relationship with Megan, so
need help from the newsgroup.

My impulse is to introduce Chloe to the residents under supervision.
However, the Bengal reacted quite badly to the neutered male we
brought in. Perhaps an older, spayed female would be different. I've
trusted Megan's instructions in the past, but now since she's written
me off, I have to rely on my past experience, and other folks on this
newsgroup.

I feel like I have no allies. I hope someone will chime in with
suggestions.

Thanks, as always, for any info.

BLink

Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll
chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently).

I think there's an element of you airing your dirty laundry here that
is unattractive.
It's one thing to flame other people on the newsgroup
who you have disagreements with but it's kinda tacky for you to flame
Megan since you have a personal relationship with her.

"Had" - apparently. And I don't regard what I've said as a flame. If
you need help identifying a flame, you haven't been reading this
newsgroup very closely. And it must not have been much of a
relationship.

You've been to
her house, you've posted pics of her cats, you've sung her praises, and
you've dumped the cat that was inconvenient to you on her who she is
now caring for.

Eh. Now you're sounding like Mary. Siegfried and Roy had to dump a cat
that was inconvenient for them. Anyway, we had Henry for over six
months, and were told he would need 10 hour a day supervision to do
the integration properly. My wife and I couldn't quit our jobs,
unfortunately.

And now you want her help again but don't listen to
her.

No, I was totally willing to listen to her. I misunderstood what she'd
asked me for.

No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could
have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at
all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do.
It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift
horse in the mouth, as it were.

Well, I was pretty unhappy. And I have a tendency to speak right up,
not unlike Megan. She was coaching me through brain surgery, and when
I picked up the wrong instrument she told me I was on my own. Now I
have to finish brain surgery.

That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat
problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even
though I've had him for 14 months and even though I did what Megan and
everyone else said to do. Everyone always says it always works out if
you do all the right things. Wrong. Maybe it'll work out someday for
me but not yet. Maybe it won't work for you either. So do what the
other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the
girl, your son, and her cat out.

Kind of an extreme solution..

Yes, the problem is decaying every day. This would have been a good
time to have a pro to rely on.

I'll probably end up hiring someone.

Sorry about the dirty laundry. But I hope you saw the parts in the OP
about my respect for Megan's competence, if not for her bedside
manner.

Candace