Just read about what is really in cat food

(Quarn77) wrote

In fact, I would dare you
to finger Hill's as being guilty of any of the things you allege. You would
be
sued so fast, you wouldn't know what hit you.

Apparently Hill's doesn't have a basis for a lawsuit. I believe they were
named in Ms. Martin's book and they haven't sued her. Kinda makes you wonder
why not, now doesn't it? Maybe Hill's that you think is so great, really
isn't.

Hill's, along with other pet food companies are mentioned in my books
and as yet none of these companies, including Hill's have chose to
take any action. I have to question why. If, as this person
purports, Hill's or any of the other companies do not carry on the
practices I've outlined then I am sure legal action would be taken to
clear their name. This person has no idea what is in my book or they
would be aware that everything is documented by government agencies,
veterinarians, PhD's, veterinary journals, research papers, meat
inspectors, V.P's of rendering plants, etc. etc.. I would welcome a
lawsuit by any of these companies but the industry knows darn well
that a lawsuit would bring to light what is happening within this
industry.

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...

Mary, don't waste your time with this person. Write them off as a lost
cause.

Ann

Ann,

I agree, and I have now done that. Incidentally, thanks for posting the
letter you received from USDA/FSIS. I plan to check out the web site.

MaryL

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...

Mary, don't waste your time with this person. Write them off as a lost
cause.

Ann

Ann,

I agree, and I have now done that. Incidentally, thanks for posting the
letter you received from USDA/FSIS. I plan to check out the web site.

MaryL

(Ann Martin) wrote in message . com...

I do but apparently you don't. Better yet, do you know the risks from
pentobarbital and other items like heavy metals that are found in pet
food? I do, I've had a "premium brand" tested and I do know.


Therein lies your problem. You have absolutely no proof of a single
kitty that eve succumbed to the pentobarbital you claim to exist and
which has been proven to be another gross exageration.

At the same time you completely ignore the number two killer of cats
in this country. KIDNEY diesase. Phosphorus is a critical factor in
renal failure.

What you are doing is no different that standing in middle of an LA
freeway on a clear day and being frightened that you will get killed
by lightning. It is indeed that silly. You're sitting there with cars
whizzing by you at 70 miles per hour in the middle of the freeway
(KIDNEY disease) and worrying about lightning (pentobarbital) coming
at you out of a clear blue sky.

But then of course if you waged war on foods with too much phosphorus
in them it wouldn't sell many books, and wouldn't make the TV news
shows would it.

(Ann Martin) wrote in message . com...

I do but apparently you don't. Better yet, do you know the risks from
pentobarbital and other items like heavy metals that are found in pet
food? I do, I've had a "premium brand" tested and I do know.


Therein lies your problem. You have absolutely no proof of a single
kitty that eve succumbed to the pentobarbital you claim to exist and
which has been proven to be another gross exageration.

At the same time you completely ignore the number two killer of cats
in this country. KIDNEY diesase. Phosphorus is a critical factor in
renal failure.

What you are doing is no different that standing in middle of an LA
freeway on a clear day and being frightened that you will get killed
by lightning. It is indeed that silly. You're sitting there with cars
whizzing by you at 70 miles per hour in the middle of the freeway
(KIDNEY disease) and worrying about lightning (pentobarbital) coming
at you out of a clear blue sky.

But then of course if you waged war on foods with too much phosphorus
in them it wouldn't sell many books, and wouldn't make the TV news
shows would it.

(Steve Crane) wrote,

Please provide the name of single company producing such foods.

Halo, produces a food, Spot's Stew, made in USDA kitchens, kitchens
that produce human food products.

Then while you are at it, pick a food and give us the nutrient
breakdown, particularly the calcium and phosphorus level in the food.
No need to name names here, simply give us an example of the actual
food nutrient levels. Be sure that the levels you provide are either
on a Dry Matter Basis or you also provide the moisture levels for
calculation.

And what the hell does this have to do with anything? You can go to
any pet food site and get that info.

Ann

What a great choice of foods. I spent nearly an hour on the phone with
this lady and found out she had never had the food analyzed and could
not even begin to give me an answer about the calcium and phosphorus
levels in the food. She kept insisting that since it was all "human
grade" the levels of these minerals didn't matter.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? You can't possibly
be serious can you? I'm assuming this is a joke right? No one could
possibly be so ignorant of the importance of nutrients in a food?
Right?

FACT 36% of cats over age 12 have undetected renal failure.
FACT Feeding these cats a food with high phosphorus 1.0% will KILL
them twice as fast as a food with 0.4% phosphorus.

Where do you think calcium comes from in a pet food? You want to keep
kidding yourself about foods that claim to be "human grade",
"holistic" etc. Let's walk through this just a bit. Chicken, beef etc
all contain 0.01% calcium. Then how does a pet food get to a calcium
level as high as 1.2%? There is little to no calcium in grains veggies
etc. So where does high calcium come from? The cheaper the meat meals,
the more ground up bone tissue is in them. NOT human grade by any
stretch of the imagination. The calcium numbers tell you a lot about
the real quality of the food, calcium levels above 1% exceed maximum
levels recommended for adult cats. Food with calcium levels that high
invariably have chosen cheaper grades of meat meals with very high
levels of ground up bone meal in the meat meal.


I just spoke with Andi Brown, owner of Halo, Purely for Pets (Spot's
Stew) and she has never spoken with you. I would say that a food such
as Halo makes, using human grade ingredients would far exceed the
garbage used in products such as Hill's. Below is the e-mail I
receive from Andi Brown. Perhaps you would like to tell us who "this
lady" was that you spoke with.

Hi Ann,
I have no idea about what's being said here. Is this message
referring to
us? I haven't spoken with anyone about percentages of minerals, etc.
in
months. Is this person saying that he spoke with someone (staff
member) in
my office? I know that I haven't been in my office in a week.
We have our food analyzed many times a year to make sure that we're
always
in compliance and if this guy spoke to anyone in my office, what we
try to
let people know is that often times the "numbers" are not what's key,
but
the quality of the ingredients and their proportions are what really
matters.
We have ALWAYS said that the sources of ingredients are the most
important
thing.
i.e.: If a commercial pet food company needs to "boost" their protein
levels, they could conceivably add more hair! If higher fiber is
required,
companies may choose to use peanut hulls. (Hills does). So many
people are
concerned that our protein is "too high" or in other cases "too low",
(depending on the point their veterinarian is trying to make) but I
have
always told our staff that it's neither high, nor low, - but
assimilable as
it's coming from a high quality protein source - that the body can use
and
eliminate gracefully. As far as the calcium is concerned, it would be
fabulous if we were actually using the entire chicken (bones and all),
but
since we make our food in a USDA Kitchen - we cannot bring bones into
the
plant. It's against the law. Wish we could, because then we wouldn't
have
to add any calcium lactate.
Thanks for bringing this situation to my attention. Our goal is to
make
this world a better place and to help the animals and the people who
love
them.
Warmest regards,
Andi

(Steve Crane) wrote,

Please provide the name of single company producing such foods.

Halo, produces a food, Spot's Stew, made in USDA kitchens, kitchens
that produce human food products.

Then while you are at it, pick a food and give us the nutrient
breakdown, particularly the calcium and phosphorus level in the food.
No need to name names here, simply give us an example of the actual
food nutrient levels. Be sure that the levels you provide are either
on a Dry Matter Basis or you also provide the moisture levels for
calculation.

And what the hell does this have to do with anything? You can go to
any pet food site and get that info.

Ann

What a great choice of foods. I spent nearly an hour on the phone with
this lady and found out she had never had the food analyzed and could
not even begin to give me an answer about the calcium and phosphorus
levels in the food. She kept insisting that since it was all "human
grade" the levels of these minerals didn't matter.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? You can't possibly
be serious can you? I'm assuming this is a joke right? No one could
possibly be so ignorant of the importance of nutrients in a food?
Right?

FACT 36% of cats over age 12 have undetected renal failure.
FACT Feeding these cats a food with high phosphorus 1.0% will KILL
them twice as fast as a food with 0.4% phosphorus.

Where do you think calcium comes from in a pet food? You want to keep
kidding yourself about foods that claim to be "human grade",
"holistic" etc. Let's walk through this just a bit. Chicken, beef etc
all contain 0.01% calcium. Then how does a pet food get to a calcium
level as high as 1.2%? There is little to no calcium in grains veggies
etc. So where does high calcium come from? The cheaper the meat meals,
the more ground up bone tissue is in them. NOT human grade by any
stretch of the imagination. The calcium numbers tell you a lot about
the real quality of the food, calcium levels above 1% exceed maximum
levels recommended for adult cats. Food with calcium levels that high
invariably have chosen cheaper grades of meat meals with very high
levels of ground up bone meal in the meat meal.


I just spoke with Andi Brown, owner of Halo, Purely for Pets (Spot's
Stew) and she has never spoken with you. I would say that a food such
as Halo makes, using human grade ingredients would far exceed the
garbage used in products such as Hill's. Below is the e-mail I
receive from Andi Brown. Perhaps you would like to tell us who "this
lady" was that you spoke with.

Hi Ann,
I have no idea about what's being said here. Is this message
referring to
us? I haven't spoken with anyone about percentages of minerals, etc.
in
months. Is this person saying that he spoke with someone (staff
member) in
my office? I know that I haven't been in my office in a week.
We have our food analyzed many times a year to make sure that we're
always
in compliance and if this guy spoke to anyone in my office, what we
try to
let people know is that often times the "numbers" are not what's key,
but
the quality of the ingredients and their proportions are what really
matters.
We have ALWAYS said that the sources of ingredients are the most
important
thing.
i.e.: If a commercial pet food company needs to "boost" their protein
levels, they could conceivably add more hair! If higher fiber is
required,
companies may choose to use peanut hulls. (Hills does). So many
people are
concerned that our protein is "too high" or in other cases "too low",
(depending on the point their veterinarian is trying to make) but I
have
always told our staff that it's neither high, nor low, - but
assimilable as
it's coming from a high quality protein source - that the body can use
and
eliminate gracefully. As far as the calcium is concerned, it would be
fabulous if we were actually using the entire chicken (bones and all),
but
since we make our food in a USDA Kitchen - we cannot bring bones into
the
plant. It's against the law. Wish we could, because then we wouldn't
have
to add any calcium lactate.
Thanks for bringing this situation to my attention. Our goal is to
make
this world a better place and to help the animals and the people who
love
them.
Warmest regards,
Andi

(Steve Crane) wrote

I do but apparently you don't. Better yet, do you know the risks from
pentobarbital and other items like heavy metals that are found in pet
food? I do, I've had a "premium brand" tested and I do know.


Therein lies your problem. You have absolutely no proof of a single
kitty that eve succumbed to the pentobarbital you claim to exist and
which has been proven to be another gross exageration.

In case you have not read the FDA/CVM report, sodium pentobarbital
does exist in over half the dry commercial dog foods they tested.
Unfortunately, they did not test any cat foods. As for cases of cats
dying from this drug, I have no proof but it is clear from the basic
testing the FDA/CVM undertook on dogs, an eight week study that
measured nothing more then a single enzyme, that even you could not
state this drug can effect various other organs in pets. You might
also consider that the FDA/CVM did not consider the interactions with
other chemicals found in pet foods nor check for interaction with
other drugs. You can't be so stupid as to say that this is not a
harmful drug given the fact that it is used to euthanize animals.

At the same time you completely ignore the number two killer of cats
in this country. KIDNEY diesase. Phosphorus is a critical factor in
renal failure.

Andy why are we seeing so many cats die from kidney disease? Could it
be from the garbage foods they are being fed?

What you are doing is no different that standing in middle of an LA
freeway on a clear day and being frightened that you will get killed
by lightning. It is indeed that silly. You're sitting there with cars
whizzing by you at 70 miles per hour in the middle of the freeway
(KIDNEY disease) and worrying about lightning (pentobarbital) coming
at you out of a clear blue sky.

Perhaps you are not concerned but others are and they are not
concerned that the food contain the nutrients as you keep pushing.
They are concerned that they are feeding foods that don't contain the
garbage ingredients, ingredients that will ultimately lead to the very
thing you describe, kidney disease.

But then of course if you waged war on foods with too much phosphorus
in them it wouldn't sell many books, and wouldn't make the TV news
shows would it.

And phosphorus seems to be the main thing on your mind. Try checking
a few of the ingredients.

(Steve Crane) wrote

I do but apparently you don't. Better yet, do you know the risks from
pentobarbital and other items like heavy metals that are found in pet
food? I do, I've had a "premium brand" tested and I do know.


Therein lies your problem. You have absolutely no proof of a single
kitty that eve succumbed to the pentobarbital you claim to exist and
which has been proven to be another gross exageration.

In case you have not read the FDA/CVM report, sodium pentobarbital
does exist in over half the dry commercial dog foods they tested.
Unfortunately, they did not test any cat foods. As for cases of cats
dying from this drug, I have no proof but it is clear from the basic
testing the FDA/CVM undertook on dogs, an eight week study that
measured nothing more then a single enzyme, that even you could not
state this drug can effect various other organs in pets. You might
also consider that the FDA/CVM did not consider the interactions with
other chemicals found in pet foods nor check for interaction with
other drugs. You can't be so stupid as to say that this is not a
harmful drug given the fact that it is used to euthanize animals.

At the same time you completely ignore the number two killer of cats
in this country. KIDNEY diesase. Phosphorus is a critical factor in
renal failure.

Andy why are we seeing so many cats die from kidney disease? Could it
be from the garbage foods they are being fed?

What you are doing is no different that standing in middle of an LA
freeway on a clear day and being frightened that you will get killed
by lightning. It is indeed that silly. You're sitting there with cars
whizzing by you at 70 miles per hour in the middle of the freeway
(KIDNEY disease) and worrying about lightning (pentobarbital) coming
at you out of a clear blue sky.

Perhaps you are not concerned but others are and they are not
concerned that the food contain the nutrients as you keep pushing.
They are concerned that they are feeding foods that don't contain the
garbage ingredients, ingredients that will ultimately lead to the very
thing you describe, kidney disease.

But then of course if you waged war on foods with too much phosphorus
in them it wouldn't sell many books, and wouldn't make the TV news
shows would it.

And phosphorus seems to be the main thing on your mind. Try checking
a few of the ingredients.

(Steve Crane) wrote

Sorry that the discussion is freaking you out but people have to
question what is being used in the foods they are feeding their pets.
I've talked to many people, including veterinarians that practiced
forty years ago and they did not see the problems in pets that we are
seeing now. If you have a relative that is older ask them what they
fed their pets prior to the growth of the pet food industry and then
ask them how many illnesses their pets had and how long these pets
lived.

Here we go again with unsubstantiated myths, based on "opinions"
and completely devoid of facts. Pets are living today *FAR* longer
than they ever did in the past.

Perhaps you would like to substantiate these facts. Seeing you feel
other people are wrong and you are always right, show us these facts.
Good chance these facts come from the pet food industry, not any
reputable source.

To insinuate otherwise is completely
false. There are a number of reasons for this, better veterinary care,
better vaccines, and better foods. All of which are resposnible for
cats and dogs living much longer than they ever did before.

Better vaccines, over vaccination, and now we are seeing tumors at
injection sites, higher rates of autoimmune disease which can be
attributed to vaccinations.

Better foods are made by small companies that are using quality
ingredients.

The major
causes of pet death used to be trauma (hit by car) and disease. We've
eliminated most of the common diseases like distemper that used to
kill cats, and the number of trauma deaths has declined as pets have
become more important in everyday life and we take better care of
them. Nothing lives forever. Since we have a much older population
than we ever had in the past, we have to expect to see more cats and
dogs live to a much older age where cancer, kidney failure, etc are
common. This mantra of pets living better and longer lives in the past
is pure poppycock and nonsense. 30 years ago a cat that lived to be 20
years old was a extreme rarity, now they are common place in every
veterinary clinic. The rarity is now a cat a decade older at 30 years
of age, and those aren't so rare anymore.

How many people that are reading this have cats, young cats, that have
not had numerous health problems? Perhaps these people could ask
their parents if this was the case 20-30 years ago? Ask a
veterinarian that practiced 30-40 years ago and see what they have to
say as to the longevity of pets.