Just read about what is really in cat food

(Steve Crane) wrote

Sorry that the discussion is freaking you out but people have to
question what is being used in the foods they are feeding their pets.
I've talked to many people, including veterinarians that practiced
forty years ago and they did not see the problems in pets that we are
seeing now. If you have a relative that is older ask them what they
fed their pets prior to the growth of the pet food industry and then
ask them how many illnesses their pets had and how long these pets
lived.

Here we go again with unsubstantiated myths, based on "opinions"
and completely devoid of facts. Pets are living today *FAR* longer
than they ever did in the past.

Perhaps you would like to substantiate these facts. Seeing you feel
other people are wrong and you are always right, show us these facts.
Good chance these facts come from the pet food industry, not any
reputable source.

To insinuate otherwise is completely
false. There are a number of reasons for this, better veterinary care,
better vaccines, and better foods. All of which are resposnible for
cats and dogs living much longer than they ever did before.

Better vaccines, over vaccination, and now we are seeing tumors at
injection sites, higher rates of autoimmune disease which can be
attributed to vaccinations.

Better foods are made by small companies that are using quality
ingredients.

The major
causes of pet death used to be trauma (hit by car) and disease. We've
eliminated most of the common diseases like distemper that used to
kill cats, and the number of trauma deaths has declined as pets have
become more important in everyday life and we take better care of
them. Nothing lives forever. Since we have a much older population
than we ever had in the past, we have to expect to see more cats and
dogs live to a much older age where cancer, kidney failure, etc are
common. This mantra of pets living better and longer lives in the past
is pure poppycock and nonsense. 30 years ago a cat that lived to be 20
years old was a extreme rarity, now they are common place in every
veterinary clinic. The rarity is now a cat a decade older at 30 years
of age, and those aren't so rare anymore.

How many people that are reading this have cats, young cats, that have
not had numerous health problems? Perhaps these people could ask
their parents if this was the case 20-30 years ago? Ask a
veterinarian that practiced 30-40 years ago and see what they have to
say as to the longevity of pets.

(Steve Crane) wrote

I don't think that my conclusions are "unproven." My conclusions are
based on facts, facts provided through research by veterinarians,
specialists in their various fields, worldwide. These are not my
conclusions, these are conclusions reached by professionals.

Please provide proof of your claims from peer reviewed published
sources, not just testimonial opinions.

I am getting a little fed up with your crap. First, what is in my
books is NOT "testimonial opinions." You are quick to make statments
and yet know nothing about what you speak. Perhaps you could check
the "endnote" section of my books before you critize.




According to veterinarians such as Wendell Belfield, Al Plechner, vets
that practiced 30-40 years ago, dogs and cats were living longer and
fed basically table scraps. Our own veterinarian who is from England
stated he observed the same thing in pets there. I know that dogs we
had in that time frame lived longer then the dogs I had 15-20 years
ago and fed commercial pet foods.

That is utter nonsense and completely unsupported by the facts. Look
at your "sources" all people who have something to sell and want to
create fear among pet owners so they can rush into the rescue for
$1.98. Belfield of all people Geesh.

I don't believe Wendell Belfield nor Al Plecner has had anything to
"sell" for a number of years although Al Plecher is coming out with a
new book shortly that will also blow the lid off you little industry.
As for our own vet, I know he has nothing to sell especially Hill's.


I'm speaking about a breed of dog that I know and have raised for many
years, the Newfoundland. Newfs, forty years ago, had a lifespan
between 16-20 years. There lifespan now is an average of 8 years. My
last one was 14 when he died and this was considered "very old" for a
Newf.

Good grief, clearly somone is delusional here. This claim is utter
nonsense. Newfys NEVER lived to an average of "16-20" years old. To
make such a statement is so completely ridiculous one has to assume
somebody's been smoking something or you think we are all so damn
ignorant we would accept such silly nonsense. That certainly has to be
one of the most blatant falsehoods I've seen on this NG in years.

Well then I have to assume that you have been sniffing a substance.
Have you every owned a Newf? Where do you get your facts that a Newfs
did not live 16-20 years. Do you want me to send you the birth and
death certificates from my dogs? Better yet, I have written some
friends who are long-time Newf breeders and asked them their opinions.
When I hear from them I will be pleased to post what they have to
say.

(Steve Crane) wrote

I don't think that my conclusions are "unproven." My conclusions are
based on facts, facts provided through research by veterinarians,
specialists in their various fields, worldwide. These are not my
conclusions, these are conclusions reached by professionals.

Please provide proof of your claims from peer reviewed published
sources, not just testimonial opinions.

I am getting a little fed up with your crap. First, what is in my
books is NOT "testimonial opinions." You are quick to make statments
and yet know nothing about what you speak. Perhaps you could check
the "endnote" section of my books before you critize.




According to veterinarians such as Wendell Belfield, Al Plechner, vets
that practiced 30-40 years ago, dogs and cats were living longer and
fed basically table scraps. Our own veterinarian who is from England
stated he observed the same thing in pets there. I know that dogs we
had in that time frame lived longer then the dogs I had 15-20 years
ago and fed commercial pet foods.

That is utter nonsense and completely unsupported by the facts. Look
at your "sources" all people who have something to sell and want to
create fear among pet owners so they can rush into the rescue for
$1.98. Belfield of all people Geesh.

I don't believe Wendell Belfield nor Al Plecner has had anything to
"sell" for a number of years although Al Plecher is coming out with a
new book shortly that will also blow the lid off you little industry.
As for our own vet, I know he has nothing to sell especially Hill's.


I'm speaking about a breed of dog that I know and have raised for many
years, the Newfoundland. Newfs, forty years ago, had a lifespan
between 16-20 years. There lifespan now is an average of 8 years. My
last one was 14 when he died and this was considered "very old" for a
Newf.

Good grief, clearly somone is delusional here. This claim is utter
nonsense. Newfys NEVER lived to an average of "16-20" years old. To
make such a statement is so completely ridiculous one has to assume
somebody's been smoking something or you think we are all so damn
ignorant we would accept such silly nonsense. That certainly has to be
one of the most blatant falsehoods I've seen on this NG in years.

Well then I have to assume that you have been sniffing a substance.
Have you every owned a Newf? Where do you get your facts that a Newfs
did not live 16-20 years. Do you want me to send you the birth and
death certificates from my dogs? Better yet, I have written some
friends who are long-time Newf breeders and asked them their opinions.
When I hear from them I will be pleased to post what they have to
say.

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote
I'm speaking about a breed of dog that I know and have raised for many
years, the Newfoundland. Newfs, forty years ago, had a lifespan
between 16-20 years. There lifespan now is an average of 8 years. My
last one was 14 when he died and this was considered "very old" for a
Newf.

Could this largely have to do w/ inbreeding & (too) strict breed standards,
perhaps? (Not just w/Newfoundlands - any particular dog breed that has a
relatively short life span.)

As far as I know there has been very little inbreeding with the Newfs,
this is one thing that has been kept very well under control with this
particular breed. Other breeds, I'm not sure of.

I've had cats for over 30 years. Up until 14 years ago my cats were
fed commercial pet food. None of my cats lived past the age of 12 and
had one problem after another through their life.

I've also had cats for just over 30 years - since June '73. My cats, otoh,
have all been fed commercial food - premium since '91, & have so far lived
to be 16 & 17 (almost 18). My current cats are 11 & just 4. For every
story on one side of the table one is liable to find a story on the other
side of the table..

As I have mentioned in a previous post, the cats three cats I have now
are ages 11, 12 and 28 years. A year ago I lost the brother of my 28
year old and that was basically do to kidney failure, something that
can be expected when a cat is 27 years old.

Cathy

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote
I'm speaking about a breed of dog that I know and have raised for many
years, the Newfoundland. Newfs, forty years ago, had a lifespan
between 16-20 years. There lifespan now is an average of 8 years. My
last one was 14 when he died and this was considered "very old" for a
Newf.

Could this largely have to do w/ inbreeding & (too) strict breed standards,
perhaps? (Not just w/Newfoundlands - any particular dog breed that has a
relatively short life span.)

As far as I know there has been very little inbreeding with the Newfs,
this is one thing that has been kept very well under control with this
particular breed. Other breeds, I'm not sure of.

I've had cats for over 30 years. Up until 14 years ago my cats were
fed commercial pet food. None of my cats lived past the age of 12 and
had one problem after another through their life.

I've also had cats for just over 30 years - since June '73. My cats, otoh,
have all been fed commercial food - premium since '91, & have so far lived
to be 16 & 17 (almost 18). My current cats are 11 & just 4. For every
story on one side of the table one is liable to find a story on the other
side of the table..

As I have mentioned in a previous post, the cats three cats I have now
are ages 11, 12 and 28 years. A year ago I lost the brother of my 28
year old and that was basically do to kidney failure, something that
can be expected when a cat is 27 years old.

Cathy

(Ann Martin) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Crane) wrote

Sorry that the discussion is freaking you out but people have to
question what is being used in the foods they are feeding their pets.
I've talked to many people, including veterinarians that practiced
forty years ago and they did not see the problems in pets that we are
seeing now. If you have a relative that is older ask them what they
fed their pets prior to the growth of the pet food industry and then
ask them how many illnesses their pets had and how long these pets
lived.

Here we go again with unsubstantiated myths, based on "opinions"
and completely devoid of facts. Pets are living today *FAR* longer
than they ever did in the past.

Perhaps you would like to substantiate these facts. Seeing you feel
other people are wrong and you are always right, show us these facts.
Good chance these facts come from the pet food industry, not any
reputable source.

Actually the way it works is when someone makes an outlandish
ridiculous claim like yours at the top, that person is responsible for
proving the claim. I diagree with your claim and I'm asking for proof,
not internet fantasy inuuendo, show me some population demographics
that prove your point. You made the original claim now prove it with
hard facts and hard studies, not just your OPINION.


To insinuate otherwise is completely
false. There are a number of reasons for this, better veterinary care,
better vaccines, and better foods. All of which are resposnible for
cats and dogs living much longer than they ever did before.

Better vaccines, over vaccination, and now we are seeing tumors at
injection sites, higher rates of autoimmune disease which can be
attributed to vaccinations.

And we are not seeing distemper in cats, panleuk in cats, lepto in
cats etc etc. Obviously you haven't been around long enough to have
seen the cats dying of these diseases. A great many more cats died of
those diseases in a single year than have ever died as a result of
vaccine induced fibrosarcomas. Perhaps you'd rather go back to the
dark ages and have 25% mortality in cats as a result of untreatable
disease instead of the current 0.000001% which may be dying of vaccine
induced disease.


Better foods are made by small companies that are using quality
ingredients.

So far you haven't shown us a single such food. Halo as we have
discovered is junk science at best. The owners can't even give you a
mineral analysis of thier own food for crying out loud.

(Ann Martin) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Crane) wrote

Sorry that the discussion is freaking you out but people have to
question what is being used in the foods they are feeding their pets.
I've talked to many people, including veterinarians that practiced
forty years ago and they did not see the problems in pets that we are
seeing now. If you have a relative that is older ask them what they
fed their pets prior to the growth of the pet food industry and then
ask them how many illnesses their pets had and how long these pets
lived.

Here we go again with unsubstantiated myths, based on "opinions"
and completely devoid of facts. Pets are living today *FAR* longer
than they ever did in the past.

Perhaps you would like to substantiate these facts. Seeing you feel
other people are wrong and you are always right, show us these facts.
Good chance these facts come from the pet food industry, not any
reputable source.

Actually the way it works is when someone makes an outlandish
ridiculous claim like yours at the top, that person is responsible for
proving the claim. I diagree with your claim and I'm asking for proof,
not internet fantasy inuuendo, show me some population demographics
that prove your point. You made the original claim now prove it with
hard facts and hard studies, not just your OPINION.


To insinuate otherwise is completely
false. There are a number of reasons for this, better veterinary care,
better vaccines, and better foods. All of which are resposnible for
cats and dogs living much longer than they ever did before.

Better vaccines, over vaccination, and now we are seeing tumors at
injection sites, higher rates of autoimmune disease which can be
attributed to vaccinations.

And we are not seeing distemper in cats, panleuk in cats, lepto in
cats etc etc. Obviously you haven't been around long enough to have
seen the cats dying of these diseases. A great many more cats died of
those diseases in a single year than have ever died as a result of
vaccine induced fibrosarcomas. Perhaps you'd rather go back to the
dark ages and have 25% mortality in cats as a result of untreatable
disease instead of the current 0.000001% which may be dying of vaccine
induced disease.


Better foods are made by small companies that are using quality
ingredients.

So far you haven't shown us a single such food. Halo as we have
discovered is junk science at best. The owners can't even give you a
mineral analysis of thier own food for crying out loud.

Aha! Very interesting fact...
Kirsten
"NOSPAM" wrote in message
...
From:

Steve wrote:

I have NEVER hidden my employment in
any way. I do periodically post a note on
this and couple other NG's that I frequent.

In all the time I've read this newsgroup I can recall only one time that
you posted that you worked for Hills on your own without someone else
pointing it out first. You never say you do unless someone brings it up
first.

I remember when I first started reading posts in this newsgroup and came
across
Steve Crane's posts. I always wondered why he so highly recommended
HIll's
foods, but I just figured he liked them. I had no idea he actually worked
for
Hill's until it was pointed out to me.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Lauren
_________
=^..^=
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline

Aha! Very interesting fact...
Kirsten
"NOSPAM" wrote in message
...
From:

Steve wrote:

I have NEVER hidden my employment in
any way. I do periodically post a note on
this and couple other NG's that I frequent.

In all the time I've read this newsgroup I can recall only one time that
you posted that you worked for Hills on your own without someone else
pointing it out first. You never say you do unless someone brings it up
first.

I remember when I first started reading posts in this newsgroup and came
across
Steve Crane's posts. I always wondered why he so highly recommended
HIll's
foods, but I just figured he liked them. I had no idea he actually worked
for
Hill's until it was pointed out to me.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Lauren
_________
=^..^=
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline

You can't be so stupid as to say that this is not a
harmful drug given the fact that it is used to euthanize animals.

Ann, can you get through a post where someone disagrees w/ you w/o insulting
them? Why are you so mean and nasty? Can't take a little criticism?

At the same time you completely ignore the number two killer of cats
in this country. KIDNEY diesase. Phosphorus is a critical factor in
renal failure.

Andy why are we seeing so many cats die from kidney disease? Could it
be from the garbage foods they are being fed?

Could it be that pet food companies are more interested in selling foods that
consumers "react to" while focused on ingredients? Perhaps they should be more
concerned w/ studying nutrition and then formulating foods that achieve the
desired nutrient profile. Worrying about ingredients only is about the
equivilent of being in kindergarten. Why don't you graduate to high school or
college and start worrying about nutrients? Oh, I keep forgetting...that
doesn't sell books for you.

Perhaps you are not concerned but others are and they are not
concerned that the food contain the nutrients as you keep pushing.

....and that's exactly why pet food companies won't ever change. They know that
the vast majority of people don't understand nutrition, yet have a knee-jerk
emotional reaction (something you make your own monies off of--just like the
pet food companies) about ingredients. So they worry about what ingredients
SOUND GOOD and not about what that food will do nutritionally for the pet.

They are concerned that they are feeding foods that don't contain the
garbage ingredients, ingredients that will ultimately lead to the very
thing you describe, kidney disease.

Ann, you are so ignorant here. Ingredients don't matter as much as you think.
The nutrients IN THE INGREDIENTS matter.

And phosphorus seems to be the main thing on your mind. Try checking
a few of the ingredients.

Because phosphorus (and calcium, along w/ magnesium, sodium, etc.) is a key
nutrient to be concerned about. You need a reality check, Ann. The dead dogs
and cats that you allege are a major problem in pet foods don't even come close
to the hundreds (or more) of foods on the market that are excessively high in
nutrients. You can't argue that at all so you just insult and try to change
the subject.