Need advice, quickly, on partial removal of lower jaw

Cary Kittrell wrote:

(pardon the crossposting: I need advice in a hurry. followups set to
rec.pets.cats.health+behav)


One of my most beloved cats ever may have a squamous cell carcinoma
of the lower jaw. The only treatment for this is to remove the
affected regions. I'm lucky in having noticed this very early,
long before it's usually detected, and so only a portion of
the jaw -- the apex, and a short distance back on either side --
would be removed.

My first reaction, horrified, was to refuse -- I pictured my cat
disfigured, drooling, eating with difficulty and unable
to groom himself. The oncologist, however, tells me that given
the very limited amount of bone to be resected in his case, he'll
"appear completly normal when his mouth is closed" and will
be able to groom normally and eat almost so.

Of course I desperately want to accept this picture -- my kitty
would be dead in a couple of months otherwise -- but I'm cautious,
and would like to hear from some "satisfied customers", if any
are out there.

So: has anyone had experience with partial resection of the mandible,
and if so, how was the cat's quaility of life afterwards?

I will have to make up my mind VERY quickly, if the biopsy comes
back positive.

Thanks in advance.


-- cary



Cary,
I don't have personal experience but have read and seen pictures of many
kitties who have had jaw surgeries, or were actually born with
disfigurements. Animals are crafty little dear and will learn to
accomodate often with greater ease than people. Your vet may have some
suggestions about food bowl placement, or perhaps changing the shape or
texture of the food but I'd say all in all your kitty will be fine. Good
luck - I'll be thinking of you and kitty. Let us know what happens
please!

Karen

Cary Kittrell wrote:

(pardon the crossposting: I need advice in a hurry. followups set to
rec.pets.cats.health+behav)


One of my most beloved cats ever may have a squamous cell carcinoma
of the lower jaw. The only treatment for this is to remove the
affected regions. I'm lucky in having noticed this very early,
long before it's usually detected, and so only a portion of
the jaw -- the apex, and a short distance back on either side --
would be removed.

My first reaction, horrified, was to refuse -- I pictured my cat
disfigured, drooling, eating with difficulty and unable
to groom himself. The oncologist, however, tells me that given
the very limited amount of bone to be resected in his case, he'll
"appear completly normal when his mouth is closed" and will
be able to groom normally and eat almost so.

Of course I desperately want to accept this picture -- my kitty
would be dead in a couple of months otherwise -- but I'm cautious,
and would like to hear from some "satisfied customers", if any
are out there.

So: has anyone had experience with partial resection of the mandible,
and if so, how was the cat's quaility of life afterwards?

I will have to make up my mind VERY quickly, if the biopsy comes
back positive.

Thanks in advance.


-- cary



Cary,
I don't have personal experience but have read and seen pictures of many
kitties who have had jaw surgeries, or were actually born with
disfigurements. Animals are crafty little dear and will learn to
accomodate often with greater ease than people. Your vet may have some
suggestions about food bowl placement, or perhaps changing the shape or
texture of the food but I'd say all in all your kitty will be fine. Good
luck - I'll be thinking of you and kitty. Let us know what happens
please!

Karen

So: has anyone had experience with partial resection of the mandible,
and if so, how was the cat's quaility of life afterwards?


I have a friend whose poodle had part of his lower jaw removes, and had no
teeth. He lived for years on canned food and did just fine. However he did look
rather odd with no teeth, and his tongue had a tendancy to hang out the side of
his mouth. It wasn't grotesque, but a little funny looking and kind of cute
even though I think poodles are rather grotesque to begin with. ;-)

So: has anyone had experience with partial resection of the mandible,
and if so, how was the cat's quaility of life afterwards?


I have a friend whose poodle had part of his lower jaw removes, and had no
teeth. He lived for years on canned food and did just fine. However he did look
rather odd with no teeth, and his tongue had a tendancy to hang out the side of
his mouth. It wasn't grotesque, but a little funny looking and kind of cute
even though I think poodles are rather grotesque to begin with. ;-)

In article "Karen Chuplis" writes:

"Cary Kittrell" wrote in message
...


The biopsy just came back -- and it's NEGATIVE!

Sorry to have jumped the gun so, but if it had come back positive,
I would have had to decide *right*now* -- typical survival after
diagnosis is two months with this type of tumor.


I want to thank those who have replied so far -- and those
who I know will still want to. I've had such long discussions
on this, often enough in tears, that I'm still quite interested
in hearing the experiences of anyone who has faced this, and
opted for the resection.


What do they think it is then?

Karen


He had a lower canine (you should pardon the expression) pulled about
fifteen months ago. Current thinking is that this is bony changes
resulting from that (changes in the bone are clear on the X-rays).

However, this would have been absolutely classic -- the oncologist
says that these tumors are nearly always discovered after dental work.
And the timing, 15 months, is about right as well. And in fact I had a
very similar experience with another cat a year and a half ago: A tooth
was pulled, it never really healed, a hole opened in the roof of
the mouth, the hole would not heal, and a tumor in the sinus was then discovered.
(unlike my current problem child this cat, though greatly beloved, was
17 years old and well into renal failure, so in her case I
chose not to subject her to the surgery and irradiation that
could at best have given her six to twenty more months of life, and
likely left her blind).



I hasten to say that no one I've talked to thinks that dental work
CAUSES these tumors; on the contrary, the dental problems are thought
to be early manifestations of the tumor.


-- cary

In article "Karen Chuplis" writes:

"Cary Kittrell" wrote in message
...


The biopsy just came back -- and it's NEGATIVE!

Sorry to have jumped the gun so, but if it had come back positive,
I would have had to decide *right*now* -- typical survival after
diagnosis is two months with this type of tumor.


I want to thank those who have replied so far -- and those
who I know will still want to. I've had such long discussions
on this, often enough in tears, that I'm still quite interested
in hearing the experiences of anyone who has faced this, and
opted for the resection.


What do they think it is then?

Karen


He had a lower canine (you should pardon the expression) pulled about
fifteen months ago. Current thinking is that this is bony changes
resulting from that (changes in the bone are clear on the X-rays).

However, this would have been absolutely classic -- the oncologist
says that these tumors are nearly always discovered after dental work.
And the timing, 15 months, is about right as well. And in fact I had a
very similar experience with another cat a year and a half ago: A tooth
was pulled, it never really healed, a hole opened in the roof of
the mouth, the hole would not heal, and a tumor in the sinus was then discovered.
(unlike my current problem child this cat, though greatly beloved, was
17 years old and well into renal failure, so in her case I
chose not to subject her to the surgery and irradiation that
could at best have given her six to twenty more months of life, and
likely left her blind).



I hasten to say that no one I've talked to thinks that dental work
CAUSES these tumors; on the contrary, the dental problems are thought
to be early manifestations of the tumor.


-- cary

I remember this post from someone a while back. You can go to google.com search
groups for "cat" "jaw" and see some other people who've had it done.

There is some truth is spreading a cancer into the bloodstream when certain
types of tumors are biopsied. This holds true with mostly soft tissue
tumors. This does not hold true with bone tumors/cancer. Once a bone tumor
(e.g.. osteosarcoma) has been tentatively diagnosed, it is already
considered a systemic disease because it has a very high metastatic rate.
Treatment of choice is amputation of a limb or removal (total or partial) of
the jaw (or any other bone affected). Chemotherapy is also involved.
Although cats do well with total or partial jaw removal, this is indeed a
radical procedure. I would hate to remove a cat's jaw to later find out that
it was only a benign growth.
A biopsy or a fine needle aspirate (if possible) is the least invasive way
to go to obtain a final diagnosis. However, if there is evidence in the
chest, this is a sign of rapid progression.
Ty, DVM





Miss February wrote in message
. ..
Biopsies have the risk of releasing the cancer into the bloodstream. If it
were me that was told that a biopsy was what the doctor wanted to do, I
would tell him/her to take the growth and all surrounding tissue out and
then he can do all the biopsies he/she wants.

Jonathan Rosenberg wrote in message
...
cdub wrote in message
...

The other day I noticed a small lump under my Sweetie's chin, on the jaw
bone.
. . .
The vet he referred me to couldn't see Sweetie for two weeks so called
another
with dental facilities and took him right in. This one scheduled an
xray,
cleaning and extraction the next day. He thought it was probably an
abcessed
tooth. When I called to check on Sweetie he said the xray showed some
bone loss
and he thought that it could be cancer. His reasons were that Sweetie is
14
years old. He said it could just be a nasty bone infection and the only
way I'd
know is to take him to a bone specialist and have a biopsy. If it was,
they
could remove his jaw but didn't know if they'd do that for such an "old
cat".
He was so compasionate! Anyway, he gave me Clavamox to start treating the
infection, if it was. He said if it was an infection it could take 6
weeks or
more of treatment.

I had a very similar experience with my cat. Read on for details,
suggestions, etc.

I'm giving him the meds faithfully and Sweetie does seem to feel better
on some
days. He's slowed way down and looks like he feels bad. He does still
eat but
I can't get him to drink enough. I'm worried he'll become dehydrated.
I've
tried milk but he won't drink it. He did drink some fat-free chicken
broth but
has stopped drinking that now. I give me canned food with a little water
mixed
in... I'm afraid that taking him to yet another vet at this time might
just
make him feel worse. A biopsy...painful? I can't see putting him
through a lot
of pain. I don't want him to suffer...if he worsens then I'll have to
make a
decision. Has anyone else had this type of thing happen? Was it a bone
infection? Advice or suggestions appreciated.

As I mentioned above, this sounds a lot like the experience we had with our
15 year-old cat last year. In his case, we noticed a "bump" under his
right
eye. Our vet said it was either (i) a nasty bone infection, (iii) cancer.
She also gave me Clavamox & said it would take many weeks to go away, if
that was the problem. She did, however, suspect cancer, since the "bump"
did not feel at all soft.

We agonized for a few days. Then I decided to take him to a local
specialist. I finally decided that I really wanted to know as much as
possible about what was wrong with him & whether we needed to/could do
anything for him.

The specialist noted some tooth decay so she put him under to remove the
tooth & take a biopsy. (It's my impression is not particularly painful,
but
it is invasive surgery & requires anesthesia. Our cat was pretty lethargic
for several days after this surgery, not eating much at all. But he perked
up quite nicely after a few days.)

In his case it turned out to be cancer: squamous cell carcinoma. It was
untreatable. He died 4 months later (being in quite good spirits & healthy
appetite for the entire 4 months).

By no means am I trying to scare you. I just wanted to relate our
experience & how we decided to handle it. If you would like more details,
please feel free to email me.

I do suggest that you take your cat for the biopsy. I think that the more
you know the better you will be prepared to help him.

Your cat will be in my prayers. i am really hoping that this turns out to
be an infection.

Please keep us informed.

--
JR

I remember this post from someone a while back. You can go to google.com search
groups for "cat" "jaw" and see some other people who've had it done.

There is some truth is spreading a cancer into the bloodstream when certain
types of tumors are biopsied. This holds true with mostly soft tissue
tumors. This does not hold true with bone tumors/cancer. Once a bone tumor
(e.g.. osteosarcoma) has been tentatively diagnosed, it is already
considered a systemic disease because it has a very high metastatic rate.
Treatment of choice is amputation of a limb or removal (total or partial) of
the jaw (or any other bone affected). Chemotherapy is also involved.
Although cats do well with total or partial jaw removal, this is indeed a
radical procedure. I would hate to remove a cat's jaw to later find out that
it was only a benign growth.
A biopsy or a fine needle aspirate (if possible) is the least invasive way
to go to obtain a final diagnosis. However, if there is evidence in the
chest, this is a sign of rapid progression.
Ty, DVM





Miss February wrote in message
. ..
Biopsies have the risk of releasing the cancer into the bloodstream. If it
were me that was told that a biopsy was what the doctor wanted to do, I
would tell him/her to take the growth and all surrounding tissue out and
then he can do all the biopsies he/she wants.

Jonathan Rosenberg wrote in message
...
cdub wrote in message
...

The other day I noticed a small lump under my Sweetie's chin, on the jaw
bone.
. . .
The vet he referred me to couldn't see Sweetie for two weeks so called
another
with dental facilities and took him right in. This one scheduled an
xray,
cleaning and extraction the next day. He thought it was probably an
abcessed
tooth. When I called to check on Sweetie he said the xray showed some
bone loss
and he thought that it could be cancer. His reasons were that Sweetie is
14
years old. He said it could just be a nasty bone infection and the only
way I'd
know is to take him to a bone specialist and have a biopsy. If it was,
they
could remove his jaw but didn't know if they'd do that for such an "old
cat".
He was so compasionate! Anyway, he gave me Clavamox to start treating the
infection, if it was. He said if it was an infection it could take 6
weeks or
more of treatment.

I had a very similar experience with my cat. Read on for details,
suggestions, etc.

I'm giving him the meds faithfully and Sweetie does seem to feel better
on some
days. He's slowed way down and looks like he feels bad. He does still
eat but
I can't get him to drink enough. I'm worried he'll become dehydrated.
I've
tried milk but he won't drink it. He did drink some fat-free chicken
broth but
has stopped drinking that now. I give me canned food with a little water
mixed
in... I'm afraid that taking him to yet another vet at this time might
just
make him feel worse. A biopsy...painful? I can't see putting him
through a lot
of pain. I don't want him to suffer...if he worsens then I'll have to
make a
decision. Has anyone else had this type of thing happen? Was it a bone
infection? Advice or suggestions appreciated.

As I mentioned above, this sounds a lot like the experience we had with our
15 year-old cat last year. In his case, we noticed a "bump" under his
right
eye. Our vet said it was either (i) a nasty bone infection, (iii) cancer.
She also gave me Clavamox & said it would take many weeks to go away, if
that was the problem. She did, however, suspect cancer, since the "bump"
did not feel at all soft.

We agonized for a few days. Then I decided to take him to a local
specialist. I finally decided that I really wanted to know as much as
possible about what was wrong with him & whether we needed to/could do
anything for him.

The specialist noted some tooth decay so she put him under to remove the
tooth & take a biopsy. (It's my impression is not particularly painful,
but
it is invasive surgery & requires anesthesia. Our cat was pretty lethargic
for several days after this surgery, not eating much at all. But he perked
up quite nicely after a few days.)

In his case it turned out to be cancer: squamous cell carcinoma. It was
untreatable. He died 4 months later (being in quite good spirits & healthy
appetite for the entire 4 months).

By no means am I trying to scare you. I just wanted to relate our
experience & how we decided to handle it. If you would like more details,
please feel free to email me.

I do suggest that you take your cat for the biopsy. I think that the more
you know the better you will be prepared to help him.

Your cat will be in my prayers. i am really hoping that this turns out to
be an infection.

Please keep us informed.

--
JR

No advice unfortunately, but we are sending best wishes and extra-strong
purrs for the biopsy to come back negative,
--
Polonca & Soncek

"Cary Kittrell" wrote in message
...

(pardon the crossposting: I need advice in a hurry. followups set to
rec.pets.cats.health+behav)


One of my most beloved cats ever may have a squamous cell carcinoma
of the lower jaw. snip I will have to make up my mind VERY quickly, if
the biopsy comes
back positive.

Thanks in advance.


-- cary

No advice unfortunately, but we are sending best wishes and extra-strong
purrs for the biopsy to come back negative,
--
Polonca & Soncek

"Cary Kittrell" wrote in message
...

(pardon the crossposting: I need advice in a hurry. followups set to
rec.pets.cats.health+behav)


One of my most beloved cats ever may have a squamous cell carcinoma
of the lower jaw. snip I will have to make up my mind VERY quickly, if
the biopsy comes
back positive.

Thanks in advance.


-- cary