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[OT] [PW] [Long] America Bashing



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 27th 04, 02:30 AM
GraceCat
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...

I'm talking about calling Americans (as in *ALL* Americans)
evil, stupid, greedy, dumb,

*snipped*

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
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I think case in point here (we haven't left for Denver yet... in the morning
btw) is something similar that happened to me earlier.

A week or so ago, in a chat room I visit we were discussing among ourselves
the infant that was removed from her mother, resulting in a homicide on the
mother's part. Another individual vists quite often, she lives in Tel Aviv
Israel. Instantly she virtually threw up her arms and exclaimed "WHAT'S WITH
AMERICANS!" etc etc because in the last month there have been two infant
deaths in our media and they were both from the USA. That offended me a
great deal but of course, smartass b*tchymouthed Gracie threw back that
until recently the greater area of the persian gulf and African regions
performed preadolscent genital removals on young girls. "What's with the
arabs?"

You'd have thought I threw boiling water on an already wet hen. And I have
nothing against the location folks, I *know* that many locals there are
against the genital mutilation, in fact it's widely NOT practiced.

Oh, it went back and forth for a while until she was using twisting
confusing logic that she loved America and wants to live here but she never
hears about crimes in any other country like she does the US. My response
that she spent most of her time in an American-esque chatroom, that yes it
stood to reason she'd hear USA and Canadian news more readily than she would
of other places. We may have some deviant criminals and women that need to
be shot (some of these stories kept me in tears a week) but it's not a
requirement you *must* be American to abuse your child. In the end she
just "retired to her non-american corner" since she was clearly
misunderstood and picked on.

A few minutes later someone picked up on that what makes America so hated by
other countries is our leader. Sure, I can accept that just as soon as you
explain to me how Bush was responsible for someone cutting out an unborn
child from it's mother.

Grace


  #22  
Old December 27th 04, 02:31 AM
Yoj
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"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...
CatNipped wrote

I'm not asking that everyone else in the world praise us, or even give us
our due, however grudgingly. I'm only asking that you quit taking every
opportunity to criticize, "bash", and sneer at us just because it's
currently the fashionable thing to do. I'm asking Americans to quit

hanging
your head and agreeing with those who bash us.


While much of what you say is true, there seems a problem that
Americans tend to invite criticism.


While much of what *you* say is also true, David, you have done one thing
that does tend to inflame Americans. When you talk about certain behavior,
it would be accurate and true to say "some Americans" or even "many
Americans". I doubt if any of your statements applies to all Americans, and
it would be nice if you could realize that. Just as many Americans have a
knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of our country, many people in other
countries tend to paint all Americans with the same brush. We are a
multiracial, multicultural country, and even within the same race or
culture, not all of us feel the same way. As far as I'm concerned, feel
free to criticize those Americans who behave boorishly, including our
government if you desire. Just make it clear that you are criticizing those
particular Americans and not every single one of us.

Joy


  #23  
Old December 27th 04, 02:33 AM
GraceCat
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"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
If you have seen me bash America/Americans on this group, as a Brit I
apologise, but we would sure like you all to sign up to the emissions

thing.
No offence intended.

Tweed


Can we share the declawing laws too?

Grace


  #24  
Old December 27th 04, 02:44 AM
CatNipped
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"Yoj" wrote in message
. ..
You make a lot of good points here, CatNipped. However, many other
countries, especially Canada, came to our aid after the 9-11 attacks.

I also think that one reason some people resent the United States is that
many Americans keep telling them they should be grateful to us. Telling
someone they must be grateful is a sure way to generate resentment. So is
constantly telling someone else we are better than they are. I consider
myself to be a patriotic American, but I would not dream of telling

someone
in or from another country that this is the "best country in the world".

I
know many people who do that. Ideally, everyone should feel that their
country is the best, but they shouldn't go around telling that to people

in
other countries.


You're very right, Joy. Mea culpa. In trying to defend my country I
commited some of the same offenses that we're being accused of.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Joy

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
OK, this is probably totally inappropriate for this group, but other

rants
are allowed and this one has been building for some time now.

I'm getting tired of America bashing. I'm getting tired of Americans
agreeing that we should be bashed.

Are we, as a nation, perfect? Of course not. Have we done things that

we
should be ashamed of? Of course. But so has every other country that

has
ever existed. To quote a popular guy, "Let ye who is without sin cast

the
first stone." We are *NOT* a nation of evil, greedy, stupid,

egotistical
maniacs who are out to conquer the world.

Here are the things I'll concede:

Does America put its own interests first in its policy making?
- Of course, ALL COUNTRIES DO!

Is America "selective" about its economic and military support
internationally?
- Absolutely. The U.S. is not a "bottomless well" of financial aid and

good
will.

Does American foreign policy contain some prejudices and favoritism?
- Naturally. Lawless regimes or those opposed to the U.S. will not be

viewed
favorably.

Will America manipulate a country or political situation to advance its
goals?
- Necessarily, as world politics are a dangerous chess game. Remember

the
U.S.S.R.?

Are some of the many "conspiracy theories" about the U.S. government

true?
- Probably one or two of the more "sane" theories are in fact true.

All that being conceded, that does *NOT* change the following facts:

NOT ONE MAJOR NATION could truthfully answer "NO" to any of the above
criticisms either. Only in a perfect world without rivalry is this
possible, and we are most certainly NOT in a perfect world.

Only America can say it has liberated many countries from occupation or
oppression and "COLONIZED NONE!"

America is still the "land of dreams" as evidenced by people of ALL the
world's nations immigrating to America, including those nations

professing
to hate the U.S.

America is a positive force in the world as recorded by its actions
throughout history which have propelled mankind forward.

America, a young nation of just 228 years, achieved economic superiority
ultimately because of it's many tolerances for the ways in which a

person
may pursue life, liberty and prosperity.

To quote journalist Neil Cavuto:

"This whole foreigners versus the U.S. thing brings out strong feelings.
And I won't lie to you: I have clear biases here. I love this country,

so
I
take exception when people criticize this country. I'm no fool. I know
we're not perfect. But I know we're still the last, best hope on this
planet. So to those foreigners who question us, some questions for you:

# If we're so greedy, why do you crave our money?
# If our culture's so base, why do you seek out our movies?
# If our people are so tacky, why do you hunger for our tourism?
# If our fast food is so passé, why do your countrymen rarely pass up

going
to a McDonald's?
# If our people are so stupid, why do your people seek out our

universities?
# If we're so backwards, why do you buy our computers?
# If we're so unconcerned about the world, why did we commit $15 billion

to
wipe out AIDS in this world?
# And if we're so selfish, why are we always there when you need us?

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot -- for the life of me -- remember the

last
time I saw peasants in rickety boats, risking life and limb to come to

your
country. They risked it all to be in "this" country. Now, I'm not

asking
you to love us all days. But maybe think about us this Normandy

anniversary
day. Dead men do tell tales. Hear them.

Someone said I had a problem with foreigners. That's not true. I just

have
a problem with lying and ungrateful ones."

Back to my own comments...

America has been responsible for most of the inventions of the modern

world
that make life easier, more enjoyable, and including medical inventions,
longer and more satisfying.

America is always there when disaster happens anywhere in the world -

how
many other countries send *us* help when a major hurricane hits or an
America city is hit with a devastating earthquake?

OK, I could go on like this for pages and pages, but I think you get my
drift.

I'm not asking that everyone else in the world praise us, or even give

us
our due, however grudgingly. I'm only asking that you quit taking every
opportunity to criticize, "bash", and sneer at us just because it's
currently the fashionable thing to do. I'm asking Americans to quit

hanging
your head and agreeing with those who bash us.

No, we're not a perfect nation, but I don't know of any other nation,
present or past, that has been so caring, so generous with it's money

and
volunteers, so willing to try to "save the world", so adamant in trying

to
spread freedom, wealth, and happiness, and so willing to sit back and

take
the criticism without ceasing that help in retaliation.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. In fact I'll sit back and wait for the
firestorm (even from some Americans, I'm sure) that this will surely
generate for the gall of me for being proud of my country and tired of

being
demonized just for where I live.

Hugs,

CatNipped






  #25  
Old December 27th 04, 02:45 AM
GraceCat
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"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


bonbon wrote:

I'm proud to be American.


I WAS, until our moronic majority actually ELECTED the
current idiot to the White House for a second term! What's
to be "proud of", now? Does the loss of the Bill of Rights
mean NOTHING to you?


I haven't had to give up my pistol. And I doubt I will the next four years,
George is/was a member of the NRA.

I haven't been arrested for suggesting our president is moronic at times.

I haved had a soldier knocking on my door announcing that my home has been
seized.

I haven't had to sit at the back of the bus.

I haven't had to endure a trial and possible hanging because I'm pagan.

What has upset me about the political debates here and there and everywhere
else is that I've had friends tell me they cannot "in good faith" tolerate a
Bush supporter. That every single person that voted for Bush "needed to be
shot", that they couldn't be friends or even carry on conversations with
people that voted for him. I mourned these people because they're
disregarding several million individuals that are smart and witty and caring
and loving. It was a decision these people made, it may not have been the
best decision, it may have been a vote between bad and worse. Respect was
lost by me for several people. Disagree with my ideas, disapprove of my
decisions but I would like to think you know me well enough to still remain
a friend. Unfortunately many in this country didn't agree.

Grace



  #26  
Old December 27th 04, 03:58 AM
David Stevenson
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Yoj wrote
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...
CatNipped wrote

I'm not asking that everyone else in the world praise us, or even give us
our due, however grudgingly. I'm only asking that you quit taking every
opportunity to criticize, "bash", and sneer at us just because it's
currently the fashionable thing to do. I'm asking Americans to quit

hanging
your head and agreeing with those who bash us.


While much of what you say is true, there seems a problem that
Americans tend to invite criticism.


While much of what *you* say is also true, David, you have done one thing
that does tend to inflame Americans. When you talk about certain behavior,
it would be accurate and true to say "some Americans" or even "many
Americans". I doubt if any of your statements applies to all Americans, and
it would be nice if you could realize that. Just as many Americans have a
knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of our country, many people in other
countries tend to paint all Americans with the same brush. We are a
multiracial, multicultural country, and even within the same race or
culture, not all of us feel the same way. As far as I'm concerned, feel
free to criticize those Americans who behave boorishly, including our
government if you desire. Just make it clear that you are criticizing those
particular Americans and not every single one of us.


Generalisations never apply to everyone, of course.

But I know a lot of people from a variety of countries, and I do have
the feeling that Americans tend to react more to criticism, whether
implied or outspoken, whether mild or not.

I believe there are such things as national characteristics.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-
  #27  
Old December 27th 04, 04:08 AM
David Stevenson
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Yoj wrote
You make a lot of good points here, CatNipped. However, many other
countries, especially Canada, came to our aid after the 9-11 attacks.

I also think that one reason some people resent the United States is that
many Americans keep telling them they should be grateful to us. Telling
someone they must be grateful is a sure way to generate resentment. So is
constantly telling someone else we are better than they are. I consider
myself to be a patriotic American, but I would not dream of telling someone
in or from another country that this is the "best country in the world". I
know many people who do that. Ideally, everyone should feel that their
country is the best, but they shouldn't go around telling that to people in
other countries.


Let me give you one example of the way to make people's blood boil,
and to get anti-American feeling.

On one of the other cat newsgroups someone posted and said that "The
English would never have supported the Americans if it had not been for
all the English who died in the towers at 9/11".

The English have supported the Americans for many years, and I for one
did not know there were any English who died in the towers at 9/11. But
it is this type of remark that makes people start to wonder.

Another remark made recently by an American politician [ok, why would
I take a politician seriously ] is that Europe was not trying hard
enough to stop terrorism. Remember that we have been fighting terrorism
for forty years, and at times pleading with the Americans to stop
certain Americans from supporting terrorism financially [collections for
the IRA, for example]. It appeared to take 9/11 for the Americans to
actually appreciate the problem: we have had too many bombs in the UK
not to take terrorism seriously.

If you want people not to criticise Americans one method is to stop
some of the unfortunate critical remarks made by Americans. Terrorism,
for example, is a global problem. Sure the US is now fighting it
whole-heartedly, but so are many other nations.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-
  #28  
Old December 27th 04, 05:26 AM
Howard Berkowitz
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In article , "jmcquown"
wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
bonbon wrote:

I'm proud to be American.


I WAS, until our moronic majority actually ELECTED the
current idiot to the White House for a second term!


Last night I roasted a very nice pork tenderloin. It was nearly 2 lbs.
in
weight rather than the usual smaller 1/2 pound hunk of pork. I brushed
it
with olive oil, slathered it generously with minced garlic, sprinkled it
with a bit of lemon-pepper, currey powder and just a pinch of salt. I
roasted it at 400F for a little over an hour. Sadly, my meat thermometer
broke last year and I neglected to purchase a new one. I don't like
over-done pork but I didn't want it to be undercooked, either.

The roast was perfect; nice and juicy. I will be able to gently reheat
slices of this to eat for a couple of days. Accompanied by my favourite
and
that often bashed vegetable, Brussels Sprouts.

I suspect that some of the secrets of making decent Brussels Sprouts are
far more sensitive than most political strategies. I find that halving
and blanching them, so they just turn bright green, is an essential to
get out the bitterness before using the main method of cooking.

The primary cooking method can be a saute, steam, or braise, usually
some thought given to the sauce. I tend toward the Asian, but am not
dogmatic about it. Sauteing them in a ginger-soy-garlic, preferably with
toasted sesame seeds rather than sesame oil, is one approach.
Stir-frying with hoisin sauce, sherry, five spice powder, perhaps a bit
of ground beef, and then lightly tossing with noodles.

I dehydrate celery and powder it, and then make a light sauce with milk,
pepper, and celery powder. This tastes like a white sauce made with
chicken stock, but, for some reason, using actual chicken stock doesn't
work as well.

Whatever the cooking method, the degree of doneness is critical.
Undercooked sprouts won't take up the flavor of the sauce, while
overcooked are mush. Blanching definitely helps with early sauce
absorption.
  #29  
Old December 27th 04, 05:48 AM
Sherry
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Last night I roasted a very nice pork tenderloin. It was nearly 2 lbs. in
weight rather than the usual smaller 1/2 pound hunk of pork. I brushed it
with olive oil, slathered it generously with minced garlic,


That sounds great, Jill. Pork loin is actually on the heart-healthy diet. I eat
so much chicken now I swear sometimes I'm going to lay an egg.Your post made me
want to try that recipe.

Sherry
  #30  
Old December 27th 04, 05:49 AM
Sherry
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I hate American bashing too and unfortunately I hear plenty of it here
in New Zealand. I think it is just plain jealousy -
I have made several trips to the US, loved the country and its wonderful
hospitable people.

Bev
--

That's one of the nicest things I've ever read on any newsgroup. Thanks Bev.

Sherry
 




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