Prozac instead of Elavil, more frustrations

Philip wrote:
Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends?
Gad ...
how did cats and owners survive centuries of cohabitation without
drugging
the cat? Good Freekin' Grief.


Now now, Phillip, get with the program. It is 2005 ya know.

If such drugs were available in the 50's they would have been used.
Now we have the luxury of psychotropic drugs. There's no reason they
shouldn't be applied in vet medicine.

In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such drugs
for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get it"
either.

For example, in her last days, my dog seemed confused at night,
sometimes. Part of it was old age, part of it was side effects of pain
management. Had she lasted much longer, I would have insisted she be
prescribed something to help her with it. But as it was, she needed
euthanization before it got that bad. I would have had no problem
giving her Clomicalm or Valium to keep her comfy at night.

There's no reason people shouldn't take advantage of all of the drugs
in the pharmacopia for their pets. Pets should be kept as comfortable
as possible, just as humans are.

-L.

On 23 May 2005 22:53:58 -0700, "-L." wrote:

Ok, maybe I'm missing something. Why did they take her off Elavil and
onto Prozac? Is there any reason she can't be on Elavil?

I had ceased to be effective. We had increased her Elavil level and
it was still not effective.

Also have they x-rayed her legs/hindquarters to rule out other things
besides ACL? The reason I ask is because my old dog was diagnosed with
a sprained knee, when in fact, she had a tumor growing underneath her
spine that was affecting the nerves into her leg. I eventually took
her to a different vet and by the time she was properly diagnosed, it
was too late to operate on the tumor.

She's had x-rays of her hind legs, pelvis, and bladder (and surroundin
area) at this point.

So I would seek a second opinion if the treatment she has received
isn't working.

Thanks for any clarification,

I'm seeing a new vet, so yes, second opinion is gotten. She has
kidney insufficiency. Urea Nitrogen is 40, Creatinine is 3.3.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

On 24 May 2005 08:41:10 -0700, "PawsForThought"
wrote:


Hi Janet,
I would definitely have your cat checked out asap. Blood clots can
cause rear leg disfunction so it would be good to rule that out.

Lauren

That's what I thought 3 years ago and none were found. Nothing else
was either - arghhhh. She was totally paralyzed that time (from
midpoint) and regained it. This is weird and different and seems to
come and go a lot. Her legs are not cold (been through clots with a
cat with cardiomyopathy in the past). She's been back to vet, nothing
shows up and it's one of those "when you bring the car in it stops
making that noise" things. I'm sure glad she seems happy at least.

She's been waking me at 5-5:30 to eat. I'm going to try getting my
pop-open feeder back from friends and see if we can get that to work.
I am not ready to get up that early, but happy that she wants to eat
that much!

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

-L. wrote:
Philip wrote:
Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends?
Gad ...
how did cats and owners survive centuries of cohabitation without
drugging the cat? Good Freekin' Grief.


Now now, Phillip, get with the program. It is 2005 ya know.

If such drugs were available in the 50's they would have been used.
Now we have the luxury of psychotropic drugs. There's no reason they
shouldn't be applied in vet medicine.

Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term findings
of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over prescibed mind
altering drugs on adult humans who have been on these powerful drugs from
adolesence. It's a sore subject with me, Lyn. A real sore subject that
points directly to abusive parenting.

In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such
drugs for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get
it" either.

As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up not only
the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the person holding it.

snip
There's no reason people shouldn't take advantage of all of the drugs
in the pharmacopia for their pets. Pets should be kept as comfortable
as possible, just as humans are.

-L.

On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your
"reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug the wife
sufficient to dampen her mood swings so that the rest of the family is
"comfortable." Just mask the symptoms.

Philip wrote:

Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term findings
of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over prescibed mind
altering drugs on adult humans who have been on these powerful drugs from
adolesence. It's a sore subject with me, Lyn. A real sore subject that
points directly to abusive parenting.

I don't advocate the use of psychotropic drugs in children unless all
other methods of behavior modification have failed. I totally believe
that a large portion of ill-behaved children are that way because of
parental rearing - or lack there of. But that's completely different
than behavior modification in cats. Please stay on the subject if you
plan to debate this with me.


In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such
drugs for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get
it" either.

As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up not only
the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the person holding it.

The reason being that I have seen cats who have been helped
tremendously by psychotropic drugs. I have also seen cats euthanized
because their "owners" felt the same way you do. It's a shame.


On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your
"reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug the wife
sufficient to dampen her mood swings so that the rest of the family is
"comfortable." Just mask the symptoms.

Psychotropic drugs help to balance imbalances in brain chemistry. You
wouldn't leave insulin levels (diabetes) unchecked, so why is it ok to
leave seratonin levels unchecked? It just doesn't make any sense from
a medical point of view, not to treat people (or animals) who have true
disorders with drugs that can help them. That doesn't mean you give it
out to any person whom seeks it, however, and concurrent therapeutic
counseling should be mandatory, IMO, for humans.

-L.

-L. wrote:
Philip wrote:

Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term
findings of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over
prescibed mind altering drugs on adult humans who have been on these
powerful drugs from adolesence. It's a sore subject with me, Lyn. A
real sore subject that points directly to abusive parenting.

I don't advocate the use of psychotropic drugs in children unless all
other methods of behavior modification have failed. I totally believe
that a large portion of ill-behaved children are that way because of
parental rearing - or lack there of. But that's completely different
than behavior modification in cats. Please stay on the subject if you
plan to debate this with me.

On this topic, I do not wish to debate with you. Your position is very
wrong headed and emblematic of our quick fix drug oriented culture.

As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up
not only the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the
person holding it.

The reason being that I have seen cats who have been helped
tremendously by psychotropic drugs. I have also seen cats euthanized
because their "owners" felt the same way you do. It's a shame.

It's always the -short term- excuse for using behavior modifying drugs. The
long term affect on people has been a tradgedy.

On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your
"reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug
the wife sufficient to dampen her mood swings so that the rest of
the family is "comfortable." Just mask the symptoms.

Psychotropic drugs help to balance imbalances in brain chemistry. You
wouldn't leave insulin levels (diabetes) unchecked, so why is it ok to
leave seratonin levels unchecked?

Because the long term fallout of brain drugging is only lately coming to
light.

It just doesn't make any sense from a medical point of view, not to treat
people (or animals) who have true disorders with drugs that can help them.

As one who has been through numerous autoimmune suppression therapies, let
me tell you personally that disease modifying drugs often create new
problems that are as bad, more diverse, or worse than the underlying
disease.

That doesn't mean you give it out to any person whom seeks it, however,
and concurrent therapeutic counseling should be mandatory, IMO, for
humans.

-L.

You have a cat counseling service? LOL I mean ... where you counsel the
cat, not the owner? Do you chortle, meow, trill, spit, etc fluently? Who
lays out on the overstuffed couch?

But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify psychotropic
drug therapy on a cat? Cats don't have mental problems .... they have
owners.

"Philip"
But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify
psychotropic
drug therapy on a cat? Cats don't have mental problems .... they have
owners.

I agree with you somewhat, where people are quick to go get a "fix-it" pill

Pharmecuticals are a multi billion dollar industry, and if the makers can
get animals involved then
hallelujah pass the prozac, I realize this, it's a free for all.

Many so called behavior problems are not problems at all, but like you say,
cats have owners!; but If I were to say cats do not have mental problems, I
would not be correct.
Some cats do have mental problems, not that I have ever met one, but if they
live under the same sun as I do, then I know if not just by osmosis, cats
have mental problems.

The real problem with drugging cats, is, first of all, they're already
peculiar little animals, secondly, which was your point, we do live in a
quick fix, push button society.

I think when it comes to psychotropic drugs this is one thing, but I am
leary of any pill that would trick the heart and endocrine system into
thinking, "relax" everything is fine; like a cat vallium.
nothing is free, this is a trade off. You drug-chill a cat too long then
that cats natural strengths are diminished. As an anology, it's like
assisted breathing, where the lungs become dependent on the breathing
machine; I say there is no difference with chill drugs, no matter how that
pill chills..when the end result is a slower heart rate, the heart works
less, and becomes addicted to effect; not to mention side effects.

I believe money is behind much of this, and so called learned men, they
spend alot of time studying for the very chore of drugging, and just like
some doctors they are quick to prescribe something. I knew a man who had no
less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to visit each morning,
they were all spread out on the table. He started on one drug which caused a
side effect, then he got a pill to deal with that side effect, and so
on...he got snowballed.

....back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from
crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop
thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug,
or even a fix.

"Philip" wrote in message
link.net...

Because the long term fallout of brain drugging is only lately coming to
light.

Gads, I hate it when I have to agree with Philip! ; But just like
antibiotics are being overly used, so are psychotropic drugs. And I am
forced to agree (kicking and screaming) that modern society has developed a
"quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time and
effort to cure.

bigbadbarry wrote:
"Philip"
But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify
psychotropic
drug therapy on a cat? Cats don't have mental problems .... they
have owners.

I agree with you somewhat, where people are quick to go get a
"fix-it" pill

Pharmecuticals are a multi billion dollar industry, and if the makers
can get animals involved then
hallelujah pass the prozac, I realize this, it's a free for all.

Many so called behavior problems are not problems at all, but like
you say, cats have owners!; but If I were to say cats do not have
mental problems, I would not be correct.
Some cats do have mental problems, not that I have ever met one, but
if they live under the same sun as I do, then I know if not just by
osmosis, cats have mental problems.

The real problem with drugging cats, is, first of all, they're already
peculiar little animals, secondly, which was your point, we do live
in a quick fix, push button society.

I think when it comes to psychotropic drugs this is one thing, but I
am leary of any pill that would trick the heart and endocrine system
into thinking, "relax" everything is fine; like a cat vallium.
nothing is free, this is a trade off. You drug-chill a cat too long
then that cats natural strengths are diminished. As an anology, it's
like assisted breathing, where the lungs become dependent on the
breathing machine; I say there is no difference with chill drugs, no
matter how that pill chills..when the end result is a slower heart
rate, the heart works less, and becomes addicted to effect; not to
mention side effects.

I believe money is behind much of this, and so called learned men,
they spend alot of time studying for the very chore of drugging, and
just like some doctors they are quick to prescribe something. I knew
a man who had no less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to
visit each morning, they were all spread out on the table. He started
on one drug which caused a side effect, then he got a pill to deal
with that side effect, and so on...he got snowballed.

...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from
crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they
develop thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not
warrant a drug, or even a fix.

Thank you Barry. You and I are on the same page. As my own illness
progresses, I've come to appreciate the degree of "symptom management"
present in Western Medicine ... and I find this very distressing.

Now you lurking readers of the medical persuasion can just put away that
knee jerk impulse to blurt out something defensive and diametetrically
opposed. Just because a substance is available does NOT mean it is
appropriate to use it. And there is AMPLE discussion on this forum quite
recently regarding vaccines and dosing ... overdosing causing horrendous
skin ulcers!

bigbadbarry wrote:
I knew a man who had no
less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to visit each morning,
they were all spread out on the table. He started on one drug which caused a
side effect, then he got a pill to deal with that side effect, and so
on...he got snowballed.

This is becoming more and more common What's sad too is many people
cannot even afford these drugs but will got without in other areas to
pay for them while the drug industry just keeps getting richer.

...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from
crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop
thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug,
or even a fix.

I agree. I think too many vets are quick to medicate without really
finding out what is the root of the problem, or not considering what
the cost will be to the cat's health by prescribing the drugs, and not
always looking for alternatives.