Help Cat with Problem!!!

I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. My friend is now at her wits end both
because of the cat's inappropriate urination and its new obsession with
constantly trying to wake them up at night. (More details re that:
Every morning, around 4:30 M starts waking us up. If the bedroom door
is closed, she jumps on the door so hard that it wakes us up. If the
bedroom is accessible, she brings toys that makes noise [she is quite
bright]) in the bed, and she plays with them until we wake up and get
up. We then follow her to see if there is anything wrong, but no, she
just wants us to be up! Then goes on her chair on the porch and sleeps
there for hours!!!!!) I have asked her to let me post about it here. I
also asked her to get a copy of the vet's report, and she will send that
to me later today. She does say that the vet's report claimed it was
NORMAL for a 2-year-old female cat to have stones. That does not sound
right to me. What do you think?

Anyway, this started on May ----. On May 23rd we heard that M had a
urinary tract infection. She had blood in her urine, but her behavior
was otherwise normal. No pills were prescribed. It sounds like they
were just told to soak her (meaning that area, I'm sure) and use some
topical cream. (Luckily, M LIKES the water!) I can't find any evidence
that her urine was analyzed at that point. Tests were scheduled for the
27th. She went back to the vet on May 29th and x-rays showed stones in
her bladder. She had surgery to remove the stones the next day. There
were two stones. She was back home, post surgery, by June 1st, this
time with a prescription for antibiotics. My friend was worried because
M still had blood in her urine and was peeing a bit on the rug. M was
also somewhat fearful after her hospital experience, and was hiding
behind the furniture. My friend was told to change M's diet to a
prescription food--dry and wet, although it sounds like she has been
mostly eating dry food since then, with a can of non-prescription food
once a week as a treat. (Am I right to assume that dry food is
undesirable no matter what type of stones this cat had???) At one
point, it was reported that she drank a lot of water, but later it
seemed like she didn't. M's owner will get her a fountain in the
immediate future.

In the intervening time, M has started urinating on the bed and had done
so three times by June 28th. (It sounds like two of those times
occurred when M could not access her litterbox; the third seems more
deliberate.) A subsequent visit to the vet revealed that she had bite
marks on her back, probably from a neighbor's cat, who had come onto M's
balcony. (I believe M is now only allowed onto the large screened
porch.) The wounds were cleaned, and she was put on antibiotics for 10
more days. They were also given a topical cream for the wounds. There
may be more tests when the 10-day course of antibiotics is over.

I guess the questions are re the urination--how to prevent it from
happening again/what may be causing it? Do you think it could be
because of the wounds? I did ask for clarification, and it is three
times total, with only ONE time possibly unexplained, since one can't
blame the cat for lacking access to the litterbox. Still, the place of
choice seems to be the bed....

Strategies to help the humans get more sleep? I know this has been
discussed, and I can google--I haven't had this problem with my cat(s),
so I haven't paid attention.

Food? (I'm sure that can be fine-tuned when I have access to the report.)

Note: the litterbox is kept clean, and M is a very pampered and
much-loved cat. M is also overweight, at 14 lbs.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. --
Jean B.

Jean,

Is your email address valid?

--
MaryL

Jean, It sounds like your friend needs a different vet. As you found
with Mingy, an all (or mostly) dry diet can cause these problems. Your
friend should first see a different vet and then try to get the cat on a
canned diet. As far as the morning wakeup is concerned, this may
correct itself as the sunrise gets later and it stays dark longer. Any
vet that says stones are "normal" should be fired.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580')

These people need a NEW vet. Sheesh. It is NOT normal for any cat to have
stones. You will only get rid of a UTI with antibiotics. It may be bad
enough now that she'll need more than one course.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. My friend is now at her wits end both
because of the cat's inappropriate urination and its new obsession with
constantly trying to wake them up at night. (More details re that:
Every morning, around 4:30 M starts waking us up. If the bedroom door
is closed, she jumps on the door so hard that it wakes us up. If the
bedroom is accessible, she brings toys that makes noise [she is quite
bright]) in the bed, and she plays with them until we wake up and get
up. We then follow her to see if there is anything wrong, but no, she
just wants us to be up! Then goes on her chair on the porch and sleeps
there for hours!!!!!) I have asked her to let me post about it here. I
also asked her to get a copy of the vet's report, and she will send that
to me later today. She does say that the vet's report claimed it was
NORMAL for a 2-year-old female cat to have stones. That does not sound
right to me. What do you think?

Anyway, this started on May ----. On May 23rd we heard that M had a
urinary tract infection. She had blood in her urine, but her behavior
was otherwise normal. No pills were prescribed. It sounds like they
were just told to soak her (meaning that area, I'm sure) and use some
topical cream. (Luckily, M LIKES the water!) I can't find any evidence
that her urine was analyzed at that point. Tests were scheduled for the
27th. She went back to the vet on May 29th and x-rays showed stones in
her bladder. She had surgery to remove the stones the next day. There
were two stones. She was back home, post surgery, by June 1st, this
time with a prescription for antibiotics. My friend was worried because
M still had blood in her urine and was peeing a bit on the rug. M was
also somewhat fearful after her hospital experience, and was hiding
behind the furniture. My friend was told to change M's diet to a
prescription food--dry and wet, although it sounds like she has been
mostly eating dry food since then, with a can of non-prescription food
once a week as a treat. (Am I right to assume that dry food is
undesirable no matter what type of stones this cat had???) At one
point, it was reported that she drank a lot of water, but later it
seemed like she didn't. M's owner will get her a fountain in the
immediate future.

In the intervening time, M has started urinating on the bed and had done
so three times by June 28th. (It sounds like two of those times
occurred when M could not access her litterbox; the third seems more
deliberate.) A subsequent visit to the vet revealed that she had bite
marks on her back, probably from a neighbor's cat, who had come onto M's
balcony. (I believe M is now only allowed onto the large screened
porch.) The wounds were cleaned, and she was put on antibiotics for 10
more days. They were also given a topical cream for the wounds. There
may be more tests when the 10-day course of antibiotics is over.

I guess the questions are re the urination--how to prevent it from
happening again/what may be causing it? Do you think it could be
because of the wounds? I did ask for clarification, and it is three
times total, with only ONE time possibly unexplained, since one can't
blame the cat for lacking access to the litterbox. Still, the place of
choice seems to be the bed....

Strategies to help the humans get more sleep? I know this has been
discussed, and I can google--I haven't had this problem with my cat(s),
so I haven't paid attention.

Food? (I'm sure that can be fine-tuned when I have access to the report.)

Note: the litterbox is kept clean, and M is a very pampered and
much-loved cat. M is also overweight, at 14 lbs.

I suggest your friend find a new vet as soon as possible- uroliths are not
normal in *any* cat.

M is probably suffering from feline interstitial cystitis- which is
basically inflammation of the bladder. Inflammation and possibly damage to
the GAG (glycosaminoglycan) layer that coats the bladder wall was probably
caused by irritation by the bladder stones; smaller crystals may have also
irritated and inflamed the urethra. Damage to the GAG layer allows urine to
penetrate the urothelium and induce inflammation. Blood in her urine was
also probably caused by bladder/urethral irritation, inflammation and
possibly laceration by sharp crystals and stones. Bleeding can also be
caused by tearing the bladder mucosa from straining to urinate.

Her inappropriate urination is also probably a result of inflammation
because 1) she may be associating painful urination with the litterbox; 2)
She's trying to tell her owner she has a problem in the only way she know's
how; 3) Inflammation in the bladder and urethra of cats causes a nervous
sensation that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full
bladder. The nervous impulses that control urination are recurrently
stimulated so that the urge to urinate is constant whether her bladder is
full or empty.

She'd definitely benefit from an all-cannned diet and quite probably a GAG
replacement such as Cosequin or Adequan. GAGs may also have analgesic and
antiinflammatory effects which will help reduce pain during urination. The
all-canned diet will result in increased water intake which in turn will
dilute noxious substances in her urine and also cause more frequent
urination- this will also decrease bladder contact time with urine which
will also help reduce inflammation. Frequent urination will also eliminate
crystals before they can grow large enough to cause problems and more damage
to the GAG layer.

However, the first order of business is *find a new vet*! The present vets
sounds like he received his DVM off a matchbook cover!

Best of luck,

Phil

---MIKE--- wrote:

Jean, It sounds like your friend needs a different vet. As you found
with Mingy, an all (or mostly) dry diet can cause these problems. Your
friend should first see a different vet and then try to get the cat on a
canned diet. As far as the morning wakeup is concerned, this may
correct itself as the sunrise gets later and it stays dark longer. Any
vet that says stones are "normal" should be fired.


Yes, I think so, if this info is true. Now I wonder what exactly the
other findings and instructions were, because I have one page of what I
was told was seven pages of faxed info from the vet. The cat turns out
to have had struvite stones. It seems that they may have resulted from
the infection. The information there seems to be general rather than
specifically directed toward this particular cat. The end of this page
mentions both canned and dry food, and does not seem to indicate a
preference.

I am really wondering whether they misheard what the vet said, because
it just seemed so odd. I hope I can get more information, although I
think they are going to be busy for the next several days....

--
Jean B.

Karen wrote:

These people need a NEW vet. Sheesh. It is NOT normal for any cat to have
stones. You will only get rid of a UTI with antibiotics. It may be bad
enough now that she'll need more than one course.


I agree. After making my post, I was reading about someone else's
experience--and that waiting to treat the infection led that person to
need to administer more than one round of antibiotics. I hope this
second round will totally cure the UTI.

--
Jean B.

Phil P. wrote:

"Jean B." wrote in message
...

I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. My friend is now at her wits end both
because of the cat's inappropriate urination and its new obsession with
constantly trying to wake them up at night. (More details re that:
Every morning, around 4:30 M starts waking us up. If the bedroom door
is closed, she jumps on the door so hard that it wakes us up. If the
bedroom is accessible, she brings toys that makes noise [she is quite
bright]) in the bed, and she plays with them until we wake up and get
up. We then follow her to see if there is anything wrong, but no, she
just wants us to be up! Then goes on her chair on the porch and sleeps
there for hours!!!!!) I have asked her to let me post about it here. I
also asked her to get a copy of the vet's report, and she will send that
to me later today. She does say that the vet's report claimed it was
NORMAL for a 2-year-old female cat to have stones. That does not sound
right to me. What do you think?

Anyway, this started on May ----. On May 23rd we heard that M had a
urinary tract infection. She had blood in her urine, but her behavior
was otherwise normal. No pills were prescribed. It sounds like they
were just told to soak her (meaning that area, I'm sure) and use some
topical cream. (Luckily, M LIKES the water!) I can't find any evidence
that her urine was analyzed at that point. Tests were scheduled for the
27th. She went back to the vet on May 29th and x-rays showed stones in
her bladder. She had surgery to remove the stones the next day. There
were two stones. She was back home, post surgery, by June 1st, this
time with a prescription for antibiotics. My friend was worried because
M still had blood in her urine and was peeing a bit on the rug. M was
also somewhat fearful after her hospital experience, and was hiding
behind the furniture. My friend was told to change M's diet to a
prescription food--dry and wet, although it sounds like she has been
mostly eating dry food since then, with a can of non-prescription food
once a week as a treat. (Am I right to assume that dry food is
undesirable no matter what type of stones this cat had???) At one
point, it was reported that she drank a lot of water, but later it
seemed like she didn't. M's owner will get her a fountain in the
immediate future.

In the intervening time, M has started urinating on the bed and had done
so three times by June 28th. (It sounds like two of those times
occurred when M could not access her litterbox; the third seems more
deliberate.) A subsequent visit to the vet revealed that she had bite
marks on her back, probably from a neighbor's cat, who had come onto M's
balcony. (I believe M is now only allowed onto the large screened
porch.) The wounds were cleaned, and she was put on antibiotics for 10
more days. They were also given a topical cream for the wounds. There
may be more tests when the 10-day course of antibiotics is over.

I guess the questions are re the urination--how to prevent it from
happening again/what may be causing it? Do you think it could be
because of the wounds? I did ask for clarification, and it is three
times total, with only ONE time possibly unexplained, since one can't
blame the cat for lacking access to the litterbox. Still, the place of
choice seems to be the bed....

Strategies to help the humans get more sleep? I know this has been
discussed, and I can google--I haven't had this problem with my cat(s),
so I haven't paid attention.

Food? (I'm sure that can be fine-tuned when I have access to the report.)

Note: the litterbox is kept clean, and M is a very pampered and
much-loved cat. M is also overweight, at 14 lbs.


I suggest your friend find a new vet as soon as possible- uroliths are not
normal in *any* cat.

M is probably suffering from feline interstitial cystitis- which is
basically inflammation of the bladder. Inflammation and possibly damage to
the GAG (glycosaminoglycan) layer that coats the bladder wall was probably
caused by irritation by the bladder stones; smaller crystals may have also
irritated and inflamed the urethra. Damage to the GAG layer allows urine to
penetrate the urothelium and induce inflammation. Blood in her urine was
also probably caused by bladder/urethral irritation, inflammation and
possibly laceration by sharp crystals and stones. Bleeding can also be
caused by tearing the bladder mucosa from straining to urinate.

Her inappropriate urination is also probably a result of inflammation
because 1) she may be associating painful urination with the litterbox; 2)
She's trying to tell her owner she has a problem in the only way she know's
how; 3) Inflammation in the bladder and urethra of cats causes a nervous
sensation that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full
bladder. The nervous impulses that control urination are recurrently
stimulated so that the urge to urinate is constant whether her bladder is
full or empty.

She'd definitely benefit from an all-cannned diet and quite probably a GAG
replacement such as Cosequin or Adequan. GAGs may also have analgesic and
antiinflammatory effects which will help reduce pain during urination. The
all-canned diet will result in increased water intake which in turn will
dilute noxious substances in her urine and also cause more frequent
urination- this will also decrease bladder contact time with urine which
will also help reduce inflammation. Frequent urination will also eliminate
crystals before they can grow large enough to cause problems and more damage
to the GAG layer.

However, the first order of business is *find a new vet*! The present vets
sounds like he received his DVM off a matchbook cover!

Best of luck,

Phil


Thanks, Phil. I will relay this information. The info I have is so
odd, esp. the comment re the stones being normal, that I wonder whether
there was a communication problem. (The vet is English-speaking, and my
friend is French-speaking.) I have been telling her that my take,
having gone through Mingy's bout with crystals, is that the most
important thing is that the cat eat canned food and increase its water
intake. I was a bit reluctant to extrapolate totally from my experience
before I heard what kind of stones she had though.

If the stones resulted from the infection, what would predispose the cat
to the infection in the first place? I gather the cat's litter box is
VERY clean, that these folks are very clean in general--which is why the
urination is such a problem for them.

I need to gently remind them that she only urinated inappropriately ONE
time--that the other times she could not access her litterbox--and that
can hardly be the cat's problem....

--
Jean B.

MaryL wrote:

"Jean B." wrote in message
...

I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. --
Jean B.


Jean,

Is your email address valid?

--
MaryL


Yes, it is. (For better or for worse...)

--
Jean B.

Jean B. wrote:
I have an online friend who has been having a problem with her cat
two-year-old female cat, M. My friend is now at her wits end both
because of the cat's inappropriate urination and its new obsession with
constantly trying to wake them up at night. (More details re that:
Every morning, around 4:30 M starts waking us up. If the bedroom door
is closed, she jumps on the door so hard that it wakes us up. If the
bedroom is accessible, she brings toys that makes noise [she is quite
bright]) in the bed, and she plays with them until we wake up and get
up. We then follow her to see if there is anything wrong, but no, she
just wants us to be up! Then goes on her chair on the porch and sleeps
there for hours!!!!!) I have asked her to let me post about it here. I
also asked her to get a copy of the vet's report, and she will send that
to me later today. She does say that the vet's report claimed it was
NORMAL for a 2-year-old female cat to have stones. That does not sound
right to me. What do you think?


I think: Unless they misunderstood the vet somehow, this all seems
pretty odd. A) No, it's not normal to have stones. And B) only
medication will clear up a UTI. Sometimes more than one round of
antibitoic is needed. And sometimes one type of med won't cure the
infection, so another one needs to be given instead.

Blood in the urine can occur because w/ a UTI the urethra can get
inflamed to the point where it bleeds. Which in turn causes painful
peeing.

If they did correctly understand the vet, then... it may well be time
for a new vet.

Cathy


Anyway, this started on May ----. On May 23rd we heard that M had a
urinary tract infection. She had blood in her urine, but her behavior
was otherwise normal. No pills were prescribed. It sounds like they
were just told to soak her (meaning that area, I'm sure) and use some
topical cream. (Luckily, M LIKES the water!) I can't find any evidence
that her urine was analyzed at that point. Tests were scheduled for the
27th. She went back to the vet on May 29th and x-rays showed stones in
her bladder. She had surgery to remove the stones the next day. There
were two stones. She was back home, post surgery, by June 1st, this
time with a prescription for antibiotics. My friend was worried because
M still had blood in her urine and was peeing a bit on the rug. M was
also somewhat fearful after her hospital experience, and was hiding
behind the furniture. My friend was told to change M's diet to a
prescription food--dry and wet, although it sounds like she has been
mostly eating dry food since then, with a can of non-prescription food
once a week as a treat. (Am I right to assume that dry food is
undesirable no matter what type of stones this cat had???) At one
point, it was reported that she drank a lot of water, but later it
seemed like she didn't. M's owner will get her a fountain in the
immediate future.

In the intervening time, M has started urinating on the bed and had done
so three times by June 28th. (It sounds like two of those times
occurred when M could not access her litterbox; the third seems more
deliberate.) A subsequent visit to the vet revealed that she had bite
marks on her back, probably from a neighbor's cat, who had come onto M's
balcony. (I believe M is now only allowed onto the large screened
porch.) The wounds were cleaned, and she was put on antibiotics for 10
more days. They were also given a topical cream for the wounds. There
may be more tests when the 10-day course of antibiotics is over.

I guess the questions are re the urination--how to prevent it from
happening again/what may be causing it? Do you think it could be
because of the wounds? I did ask for clarification, and it is three
times total, with only ONE time possibly unexplained, since one can't
blame the cat for lacking access to the litterbox. Still, the place of
choice seems to be the bed....

Strategies to help the humans get more sleep? I know this has been
discussed, and I can google--I haven't had this problem with my cat(s),
so I haven't paid attention.

Food? (I'm sure that can be fine-tuned when I have access to the report.)

Note: the litterbox is kept clean, and M is a very pampered and
much-loved cat. M is also overweight, at 14 lbs.

--
Jean B.