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  #571  
Old August 21st 03, 04:08 AM
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Alison Smiley Perera wrote in message ...
In article ,
Katra wrote:

Sorry for the long defense, but that was a pretty ugly accusation.
Collectors are horrible.....


It was meant to be an ugly accusation. In animal circles, calling
someone a hoarder is not to be undertaken lightly. It probably shouldn't
be done at all over the internet since number of animals and other
"quantitative"/descriptive characteristics have nothing to do with
whether a person collects or just has a lot of pets and rescues.
However, the illness/compulsion side of collecting leads the afflicted
person to claim loud and long that no matter how less-than-ideal the
circumstances might be for the animals in their care, at least they are
better off than dead or in a shelter. This warped outlook can come
across online, and definitely rings a bell with some of your
protestations.


There are far worse things than death. I know that.

I understand... and am taking precautions not to become a "collector".
My situation is probably borderline, but I am NOT asking for help or
donations.

My offer for you to visit was serious, ask me by private e-mail. I'm
not trying to hide, the posting e-mail works. Gets me spam, but I
don't care.

Come see me. Most of my kitties are healthy. Only some of the older
ones have problems, but heaven knows that is normal, and my vet gets
to see and treat them. I'm also willing to give them up to very
carefully chosen homes... I'd like to get down to under 20, but
understand that I am attached to most of them. They have names and are
individuals, not "just cats". Naturally, I'd be picky, but I WILL give
them up.


However, the rest of your descriptions, and your candid admission that
you've got enough/too many cats, show that you have enough perspective
on the matter to rule out this serious mental illness. Maybe though,
you'll recognize some of these warning signs when you are trying to
explain what a good cat owner you are in terms numbers of cats and
dollars spent on them, and understand why this isn't impressive to some
of us.

-Alison in OH


I know it's not impressive, damn it. And I'm not asking for sympathy.
I try my level best to take care of these cats and am taking further
steps to improve both the kitty and the human condition. :-) Again,
come visit me. I have nothing to hide!!!

I'm not a friggin collector; And I don't want to become one. I've
already recognized the possibilty, and have said no to many cats.
sigh There was a beautiful green eyed, blue short hair tom that got
abandoned at the hospital where I work recently. Goddess knows I was
tempted! I did feed him, he dissapeared after about 3 days. I'm hoping
the shelter did not pick him up. New Braunfels shelter is notorious
for destroying both domestic and wild animals. :-( Very heartless
manager. He was so sweet.....

K.
  #572  
Old August 21st 03, 04:08 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alison Smiley Perera wrote in message ...
In article ,
Katra wrote:

Sorry for the long defense, but that was a pretty ugly accusation.
Collectors are horrible.....


It was meant to be an ugly accusation. In animal circles, calling
someone a hoarder is not to be undertaken lightly. It probably shouldn't
be done at all over the internet since number of animals and other
"quantitative"/descriptive characteristics have nothing to do with
whether a person collects or just has a lot of pets and rescues.
However, the illness/compulsion side of collecting leads the afflicted
person to claim loud and long that no matter how less-than-ideal the
circumstances might be for the animals in their care, at least they are
better off than dead or in a shelter. This warped outlook can come
across online, and definitely rings a bell with some of your
protestations.


There are far worse things than death. I know that.

I understand... and am taking precautions not to become a "collector".
My situation is probably borderline, but I am NOT asking for help or
donations.

My offer for you to visit was serious, ask me by private e-mail. I'm
not trying to hide, the posting e-mail works. Gets me spam, but I
don't care.

Come see me. Most of my kitties are healthy. Only some of the older
ones have problems, but heaven knows that is normal, and my vet gets
to see and treat them. I'm also willing to give them up to very
carefully chosen homes... I'd like to get down to under 20, but
understand that I am attached to most of them. They have names and are
individuals, not "just cats". Naturally, I'd be picky, but I WILL give
them up.


However, the rest of your descriptions, and your candid admission that
you've got enough/too many cats, show that you have enough perspective
on the matter to rule out this serious mental illness. Maybe though,
you'll recognize some of these warning signs when you are trying to
explain what a good cat owner you are in terms numbers of cats and
dollars spent on them, and understand why this isn't impressive to some
of us.

-Alison in OH


I know it's not impressive, damn it. And I'm not asking for sympathy.
I try my level best to take care of these cats and am taking further
steps to improve both the kitty and the human condition. :-) Again,
come visit me. I have nothing to hide!!!

I'm not a friggin collector; And I don't want to become one. I've
already recognized the possibilty, and have said no to many cats.
sigh There was a beautiful green eyed, blue short hair tom that got
abandoned at the hospital where I work recently. Goddess knows I was
tempted! I did feed him, he dissapeared after about 3 days. I'm hoping
the shelter did not pick him up. New Braunfels shelter is notorious
for destroying both domestic and wild animals. :-( Very heartless
manager. He was so sweet.....

K.
  #575  
Old August 21st 03, 02:53 PM
Alison Smiley Perera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
) wrote:

My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
1/8-1/4 c. kibble. But I don't have 36 cats to feed. If I did I think
I'd go to a good yet economical brand of kibble (Sensible Choice comes
to mind) and fill the bowl once per day, probably in the evening, with
an appropriate amount for the number of cats to be fed. Then once per
day I'd feed each animal an individual portion of canned food.


So I'm to set up 36 dishes??? Um, okee.
Right now, I have 10 cats that need their own dishes. The rest share 5
"community" pans. There is always plenty left for the ones that wait
for the others. The canned feeding thing lasts thru the night which is
why I do it at night while we are asleep... That way they have at
least 6 hours to finish it off, and it actually takes that long.


It's what I'd do if I were you, and it's what many people who keep
dozens of cats well do. I know of a woman who exclusively rawfeeds I
think 20 or so cats. Twice per day she puts down 20 or so paper plates.
It's doable, and it's optimal, but I know it's time-consuming so it
might not work for your lifestyle.

After 6 hours do you really think that food is still good? I pick up
plates after 20-30 minutes max, and my boys learn to eat their portion
in that time frame.

By learning how to do a simple physical at home for your young healthy
cats (here from a vet school curriculum
http://education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curri...ct/Techniques/
index.htm and here from a pet first aid site
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=292) you
might not even have to bring them in more than every few years. The
physical is the most important part of the visit though, and not
everyone wants to risk skipping it.


Exactly. :-)
I get the cat physical done with the vaccinations, along with any
needed bloodwork.


But why the vaccinations? If a cat was immunized with last year's
vaccination, why on earth do you think she's magically lost that
immunity at precisely a one-year interval? Chances are, she hasn't
considering that current studies show protection against challenge with
street virus after SEVEN years. So, you are simply injecting an
antigen--which rouses the immune system only enough for the ALREADY
EXISTING antibodies to spend themselves neutralizing the threat--and an
adjuvant--a nasty chemical cocktail that's been implicated in everything
from cancer to immune disorders: hypo-, hyper-, and autoimmune diseases.
After a lifetime of vaccinations what do you think you're adding to your
9+ year old cat's health by injecting them with this admixture over and
over and over?

If your vet's client education puts the emphasis on the exam, that's
great. It probably also means he's putting the bulk of the cost on the
professional service of administering the physical, and minimizing
markup on the vaccines, which means that you won't put much of a dent in
your annual bill by reducing them. But you might find less-immediate
benefits, reductions in your cats' HYPERIMMUNITY to flea saliva, or your
cats' HYPOIMMUNITY to ringworm fungus.

-Alison in OH
  #576  
Old August 21st 03, 02:53 PM
Alison Smiley Perera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
) wrote:

My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
1/8-1/4 c. kibble. But I don't have 36 cats to feed. If I did I think
I'd go to a good yet economical brand of kibble (Sensible Choice comes
to mind) and fill the bowl once per day, probably in the evening, with
an appropriate amount for the number of cats to be fed. Then once per
day I'd feed each animal an individual portion of canned food.


So I'm to set up 36 dishes??? Um, okee.
Right now, I have 10 cats that need their own dishes. The rest share 5
"community" pans. There is always plenty left for the ones that wait
for the others. The canned feeding thing lasts thru the night which is
why I do it at night while we are asleep... That way they have at
least 6 hours to finish it off, and it actually takes that long.


It's what I'd do if I were you, and it's what many people who keep
dozens of cats well do. I know of a woman who exclusively rawfeeds I
think 20 or so cats. Twice per day she puts down 20 or so paper plates.
It's doable, and it's optimal, but I know it's time-consuming so it
might not work for your lifestyle.

After 6 hours do you really think that food is still good? I pick up
plates after 20-30 minutes max, and my boys learn to eat their portion
in that time frame.

By learning how to do a simple physical at home for your young healthy
cats (here from a vet school curriculum
http://education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curri...ct/Techniques/
index.htm and here from a pet first aid site
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=292) you
might not even have to bring them in more than every few years. The
physical is the most important part of the visit though, and not
everyone wants to risk skipping it.


Exactly. :-)
I get the cat physical done with the vaccinations, along with any
needed bloodwork.


But why the vaccinations? If a cat was immunized with last year's
vaccination, why on earth do you think she's magically lost that
immunity at precisely a one-year interval? Chances are, she hasn't
considering that current studies show protection against challenge with
street virus after SEVEN years. So, you are simply injecting an
antigen--which rouses the immune system only enough for the ALREADY
EXISTING antibodies to spend themselves neutralizing the threat--and an
adjuvant--a nasty chemical cocktail that's been implicated in everything
from cancer to immune disorders: hypo-, hyper-, and autoimmune diseases.
After a lifetime of vaccinations what do you think you're adding to your
9+ year old cat's health by injecting them with this admixture over and
over and over?

If your vet's client education puts the emphasis on the exam, that's
great. It probably also means he's putting the bulk of the cost on the
professional service of administering the physical, and minimizing
markup on the vaccines, which means that you won't put much of a dent in
your annual bill by reducing them. But you might find less-immediate
benefits, reductions in your cats' HYPERIMMUNITY to flea saliva, or your
cats' HYPOIMMUNITY to ringworm fungus.

-Alison in OH
  #577  
Old August 21st 03, 02:58 PM
MaryL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
om...
Arjun Ray wrote in message

. ..
In , Alison Smiley
Perera wrote:

| My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
| digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
| 1/8-1/4 c. kibble.

I have 4 cats, ranging in weight from 9.5 to 12.5 lbs (the smallest is
heavy for her apparent size, the largest light for his.) I split 3 cans
of Wellness per day for them, with occasional dry food snacks (either
California Natural or Petguard Premium.) Of course, they inhale the
crunchies, but they don't seem hungry and they are all maintaining their
weight - even my CRF cat.

| Since this will undoubtedly raise your food bill I'd like to offer
| some unsolicited advice on reducing your vet bill concurrently.
| [Good links omitted].

There are other factors worth considering.

Feeding cats good food is not necessarily a full increase in cost. Cats
generally eat *less* when fed good food than when fed junk, because
their dietary needs are met by less. That is, you don't give cats the
same *amount* of good food as the junk they were eating. This is a
savings.

Further, good food will have a beneficial impact on overall health,
which will result in fewer trips to the vet. Another savings.

Penny-pinching on something as basic as food is a classic case of penny
wise, pound foolish.


Agreed... I've read about that aspect. Better quality kibbles equals
less food consumption, also usually equals less litter consumption.
(less poop). Do you thing the sales people at Petsmart will be any
help??? There is usually one of the rescue volunteers there on
Saturday, and one of them is a vet. I know how y'all feel about vets
knowing about nutrition, but this neat lady is also a rescuer.

Maybe I can consult with her.....

K.


I have also found that my cats eat far less food now that I have changed to
premium food (canned Wellness and canned Felidae plus a small amount of dry
Wellness). Their coats are much better, and their optimum weight is being
maintained.

Concerning your question about Petsmart: I like many of the products at
Petsmart, but my experience has been that many of their employees know very
little about cats or even about their own supplies. I buy products there
but do not count on them for advice (and I order my cat food through the
Internet).

MaryL


  #578  
Old August 21st 03, 02:58 PM
MaryL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
om...
Arjun Ray wrote in message

. ..
In , Alison Smiley
Perera wrote:

| My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
| digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
| 1/8-1/4 c. kibble.

I have 4 cats, ranging in weight from 9.5 to 12.5 lbs (the smallest is
heavy for her apparent size, the largest light for his.) I split 3 cans
of Wellness per day for them, with occasional dry food snacks (either
California Natural or Petguard Premium.) Of course, they inhale the
crunchies, but they don't seem hungry and they are all maintaining their
weight - even my CRF cat.

| Since this will undoubtedly raise your food bill I'd like to offer
| some unsolicited advice on reducing your vet bill concurrently.
| [Good links omitted].

There are other factors worth considering.

Feeding cats good food is not necessarily a full increase in cost. Cats
generally eat *less* when fed good food than when fed junk, because
their dietary needs are met by less. That is, you don't give cats the
same *amount* of good food as the junk they were eating. This is a
savings.

Further, good food will have a beneficial impact on overall health,
which will result in fewer trips to the vet. Another savings.

Penny-pinching on something as basic as food is a classic case of penny
wise, pound foolish.


Agreed... I've read about that aspect. Better quality kibbles equals
less food consumption, also usually equals less litter consumption.
(less poop). Do you thing the sales people at Petsmart will be any
help??? There is usually one of the rescue volunteers there on
Saturday, and one of them is a vet. I know how y'all feel about vets
knowing about nutrition, but this neat lady is also a rescuer.

Maybe I can consult with her.....

K.


I have also found that my cats eat far less food now that I have changed to
premium food (canned Wellness and canned Felidae plus a small amount of dry
Wellness). Their coats are much better, and their optimum weight is being
maintained.

Concerning your question about Petsmart: I like many of the products at
Petsmart, but my experience has been that many of their employees know very
little about cats or even about their own supplies. I buy products there
but do not count on them for advice (and I order my cat food through the
Internet).

MaryL


 




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