Natural prey

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:
Yes, I do have to pluck and gut them. But let's be frank, if
anyone eats meat someone has done it all for you.
Exactly! I am fully aware that, if my meat did not come all
neatly butchered and packaged in plastic at the supermarket, I
would become a vegetarian in a hurry.

What an interesting thread drift for this group!

When we lived out in the country, we raised, first, rabbits (and
found we could not kill them, too high a cute factor...had no
problem with the butchering part, but could not slaughter no
matter how humanely), then chickens...which I did regularly
slaughter, butcher and eat.*

It was part of taking responsibility for our food...and if it
turned out that I could not take any animal from "live" to
"dead", I was willing to become vegetarian. It just seemed right
to me.

Deborah

* A touching story, by the way. My son, who was perhaps 13 or 14
at the time, would help catch the chickens we needed to kill. He
felt unable to help with the killing, plucking or gutting parts,
but the catching-them part was harder for me and so he was
actually more help that way. The chicken yard was away from and
out of sight from where I was working...he would catch one of the
chickens, tuck it under his arm and pet its head while walking,
telling it "It's OK, chicken, it's just time to die" in the most
gentle voice. It seemed to me he helped make their transition as
easy as possible. They were almost always calm and easily handled
when they got to me, and I made sure their end was swift and
essentially painless.

Exactly! I am fully aware that, if my meat did not come all neatly
butchered and packaged in plastic at the supermarket, I would become
a vegetarian in a hurry.

I spent some time working in a colossal industrial slaughterhouse when
I was a student (including a week feeding the catfood mincer chute, and
by my estimate disposing of half a million rectums by the bucketful).
It didn't put me off meat, though I found myself becoming hyper-aware
of what my intestines were doing at any moment.

The job that really did put me off the product was working in an ice
cream factory. I don't think my taste for ice cream ever recovered.

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mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

Phoenix wrote:

* A touching story, by the way. My son, who was perhaps 13 or 14 at the
time, would help catch the chickens we needed to kill. He felt unable to
help with the killing, plucking or gutting parts, but the catching-them
part was harder for me and so he was actually more help that way. The
chicken yard was away from and out of sight from where I was
working...he would catch one of the chickens, tuck it under his arm and
pet its head while walking, telling it "It's OK, chicken, it's just time
to die" in the most gentle voice. It seemed to me he helped make their
transition as easy as possible. They were almost always calm and easily
handled when they got to me, and I made sure their end was swift and
essentially painless.

According to urban legend, although the original natives of our country
were a culture of hunters, they always apologized to the animal's spirit
for killing it. (And they certainly used every part of their prey -
unlike modern man, who even kills animals he doesn't eat.)

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
m...


Phoenix wrote:

* A touching story, by the way. My son, who was perhaps 13 or 14 at the
time, would help catch the chickens we needed to kill. He felt unable to
help with the killing, plucking or gutting parts, but the catching-them
part was harder for me and so he was actually more help that way. The
chicken yard was away from and out of sight from where I was working...he
would catch one of the chickens, tuck it under his arm and pet its head
while walking, telling it "It's OK, chicken, it's just time to die" in
the most gentle voice. It seemed to me he helped make their transition as
easy as possible. They were almost always calm and easily handled when
they got to me, and I made sure their end was swift and essentially
painless.

According to urban legend, although the original natives of our country
were a culture of hunters, they always apologized to the animal's spirit
for killing it. (And they certainly used every part of their prey -
unlike modern man, who even kills animals he doesn't eat.)

Not urban legend in Cherokee
There are several things about my native American background. I am part
Cherokee my grandmother was full blooded Tsalagi or Cherokee on my dads side
my moms grand father was Haudenosaunee or Iroquois

We are not allowed to kill eagles, rattlesnakes or wolves. You had to have
a medicine man from a clan of the bird for example to kill and eagle. Some
other traditions

Cherokee preparations for war or for the hunt
Men who are preparing for war must avoid sexual intercourse for four days
prior to leaving and four days after returning. During these periods they
will undergo purification.

Cherokee traditions after killing a deer or other large game

After killing the game the hunter should cut out the hamstrings and leave
them behind. He should not leave them in the meat. He should also not leave
without offering a prayer for pardon to the deer. He should use the tip of
the game's tongue as an offering of thanks by putting it in the fire. It is
also common for us to throw some of the meat from every meal to the fire as
an offering of thanks to the spirits and gods.

On my Cherokee side this is part of our heritage where it was believed that
medicine men started and the prayer of pardon

At one time, animals and people lived together peaceably and talked with
each other. But when mankind began to multiply rapidly, the animals were
crowded into forests and deserts. Man began to destroy animals wholesale for
their skins and furs, not just for needed food. Animals became angry at such
treatment by their former friends, resolving they must punish mankind.
The bear tribe met in council, presided over by Old White Bear, their Chief.
After several bears had spoken against mankind for their bloodthirsty ways,
war was unanimously agreed upon. But what kinds of weapons should the bears
use?
Chief Old White Bear suggested that man's weapon, the bow and arrow, should
be turned against him. All of the council agreed. While the bears worked and
made bows and arrows, they wondered what to do about bowstrings. One of the
bears sacrificed himself to provide the strings, while the others searched
for good arrow-wood.
When the first bow was completed and tried, the bear's claws could not
release the strings to shoot the arrow. One bear offered to cut his claws,
but Chief Old White Bear would not allow him to do that, because without
claws he could not climb trees for food and safety. He might starve.
The deer tribe called together its council led by Chief Little Deer. They
decided that any Indian hunters, who killed deer without asking pardon in a
suitable manner, should be afflicted with painful rheumatism in their
joints.
After this decision, Chief Little Deer sent a messenger to their nearest
neighbors, the Cherokee Indians.
"From now on, your hunters must first offer a prayer to the deer before
killing him," said the messenger. "You must ask his pardon, stating you are
forced only by the hunger needs of your tribe to kill the deer. Otherwise, a
terrible disease will come to the hunter."
When a deer is slain by an Indian hunter, Chief Little Deer will run to the
spot and ask the slain deer's spirit, "Did you hear the hunter's prayer for
pardon?"
If the reply is yes, then all is well and Chief Little Deer returns to his
cave. But if the answer is no, then the Chief tracks the hunter to his lodge
and strikes him with the terrible disease of rheumatism, making him a
helpless cripple unable to hunt again.
All the fishes and reptiles then held a council and decided they would haunt
those Cherokee Indians, who tormented them, by telling them hideous dreams
of serpents twining around them and eating them alive. These snake and fish
dreams occurred often among the Cherokees. To get relief, the Cherokees
pleaded with their Shaman to banish their frightening dreams if they no
longer tormented the snakes and fish.
Now when the friendly plants heard what the animals had decided against
mankind, they planned a countermove of their own. Each tree, shrub, herb,
grass, and moss agreed to furnish a cure for one of the diseases named by
the animals and insects.
Thereafter, when the Cherokee Indians visited their Shaman about their
ailments and if the medicine man was in doubt, he communed with the spirits
of the plants. They always suggested a proper remedy for mankind's diseases.
This was the beginning of plant medicine from nature among the Cherokee
Indian nation a long, long time ago.



If you want to know what the prayer is Sorry I cant type it out you it is
scared to us plus translates weird from Tsalagi to english. If you want a
close example watch avatar when he kills that wolf dog

"Matthew" wrote in message
ng.com...

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
m...


Phoenix wrote:

* A touching story, by the way. My son, who was perhaps 13 or 14 at the
time, would help catch the chickens we needed to kill. He felt unable to
help with the killing, plucking or gutting parts, but the catching-them
part was harder for me and so he was actually more help that way. The
chicken yard was away from and out of sight from where I was
working...he would catch one of the chickens, tuck it under his arm and
pet its head while walking, telling it "It's OK, chicken, it's just time
to die" in the most gentle voice. It seemed to me he helped make their
transition as easy as possible. They were almost always calm and easily
handled when they got to me, and I made sure their end was swift and
essentially painless.

According to urban legend, although the original natives of our country
were a culture of hunters, they always apologized to the animal's spirit
for killing it. (And they certainly used every part of their prey -
unlike modern man, who even kills animals he doesn't eat.)

Not urban legend in Cherokee
There are several things about my native American background. I am part
Cherokee my grandmother was full blooded Tsalagi or Cherokee on my dads
side my moms grand father was Haudenosaunee or Iroquois

We are not allowed to kill eagles, rattlesnakes or wolves. You had to
have a medicine man from a clan of the bird for example to kill and eagle.
Some other traditions

Cherokee preparations for war or for the hunt
Men who are preparing for war must avoid sexual intercourse for four days
prior to leaving and four days after returning. During these periods they
will undergo purification.

Cherokee traditions after killing a deer or other large game

After killing the game the hunter should cut out the hamstrings and leave
them behind. He should not leave them in the meat. He should also not
leave without offering a prayer for pardon to the deer. He should use the
tip of the game's tongue as an offering of thanks by putting it in the
fire. It is also common for us to throw some of the meat from every meal
to the fire as an offering of thanks to the spirits and gods.

On my Cherokee side this is part of our heritage where it was believed
that medicine men started and the prayer of pardon

At one time, animals and people lived together peaceably and talked with
each other. But when mankind began to multiply rapidly, the animals were
crowded into forests and deserts. Man began to destroy animals wholesale
for their skins and furs, not just for needed food. Animals became angry
at such treatment by their former friends, resolving they must punish
mankind.
The bear tribe met in council, presided over by Old White Bear, their
Chief. After several bears had spoken against mankind for their
bloodthirsty ways, war was unanimously agreed upon. But what kinds of
weapons should the bears use?
Chief Old White Bear suggested that man's weapon, the bow and arrow,
should be turned against him. All of the council agreed. While the bears
worked and made bows and arrows, they wondered what to do about
bowstrings. One of the bears sacrificed himself to provide the strings,
while the others searched for good arrow-wood.
When the first bow was completed and tried, the bear's claws could not
release the strings to shoot the arrow. One bear offered to cut his claws,
but Chief Old White Bear would not allow him to do that, because without
claws he could not climb trees for food and safety. He might starve.
The deer tribe called together its council led by Chief Little Deer. They
decided that any Indian hunters, who killed deer without asking pardon in
a suitable manner, should be afflicted with painful rheumatism in their
joints.
After this decision, Chief Little Deer sent a messenger to their nearest
neighbors, the Cherokee Indians.
"From now on, your hunters must first offer a prayer to the deer before
killing him," said the messenger. "You must ask his pardon, stating you
are forced only by the hunger needs of your tribe to kill the deer.
Otherwise, a terrible disease will come to the hunter."
When a deer is slain by an Indian hunter, Chief Little Deer will run to
the spot and ask the slain deer's spirit, "Did you hear the hunter's
prayer for pardon?"
If the reply is yes, then all is well and Chief Little Deer returns to his
cave. But if the answer is no, then the Chief tracks the hunter to his
lodge and strikes him with the terrible disease of rheumatism, making him
a helpless cripple unable to hunt again.
All the fishes and reptiles then held a council and decided they would
haunt those Cherokee Indians, who tormented them, by telling them hideous
dreams of serpents twining around them and eating them alive. These snake
and fish dreams occurred often among the Cherokees. To get relief, the
Cherokees pleaded with their Shaman to banish their frightening dreams if
they no longer tormented the snakes and fish.
Now when the friendly plants heard what the animals had decided against
mankind, they planned a countermove of their own. Each tree, shrub, herb,
grass, and moss agreed to furnish a cure for one of the diseases named by
the animals and insects.
Thereafter, when the Cherokee Indians visited their Shaman about their
ailments and if the medicine man was in doubt, he communed with the
spirits of the plants. They always suggested a proper remedy for mankind's
diseases.
This was the beginning of plant medicine from nature among the Cherokee
Indian nation a long, long time ago.



If you want to know what the prayer is Sorry I cant type it out you it is
scared to us plus translates weird from Tsalagi to english. If you want a
close example watch avatar when he kills that wolf dog

Thank you for this fascinating bit of history.

Joy

On 12/24/2012 1:19 AM, Bastette wrote:
Chak wrote:

"Christina Websell" wrote in
:

Yes, I do have to pluck and gut them. But let's be frank, if anyone
eats meat someone has done it all for you.

I used to think I could never do that, but it turns out I'm pretty handy.
:-)

The idea of doing that seems pretty gross, but yes, it's important to keep
that awareness in mind if you're going to eat meat. I used to say that if
I ever found myself in a situation where I had to hunt and clean my own
meat, I'd become a vegetarian. But if things were so dire that I had to do
all that, I suspect I would eat anything that was available. At first, I'd
probably hate having to kill and clean an animal, but I'd get used to it, I'm
sure. Nothing like the danger of starvation to find yourself doing things you
never thought you could do!

I don't know if people in the UK and AU would know about this, but I
watched the Public Broadcasting series 'Frontier House'. They took
three families, put them in the middle of a setting in 1880's Montana
with some basic supplies, livestock, seeds. They actually had to cross
the US in covered wagons (aka prairie schooners). They had to eke out a
living and PBS followed their progress. It was an interesting
show/experiment. Here's part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvNmOc1QirY

Jill

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:47:16 -0500, jmcquown
wrote:

On 12/24/2012 1:19 AM, Bastette wrote:
Chak wrote:

"Christina Websell" wrote in
:

Yes, I do have to pluck and gut them. But let's be frank, if anyone
eats meat someone has done it all for you.

I used to think I could never do that, but it turns out I'm pretty handy.
:-)

The idea of doing that seems pretty gross, but yes, it's important to keep
that awareness in mind if you're going to eat meat. I used to say that if
I ever found myself in a situation where I had to hunt and clean my own
meat, I'd become a vegetarian. But if things were so dire that I had to do
all that, I suspect I would eat anything that was available. At first, I'd
probably hate having to kill and clean an animal, but I'd get used to it, I'm
sure. Nothing like the danger of starvation to find yourself doing things you
never thought you could do!

I don't know if people in the UK and AU would know about this, but I
watched the Public Broadcasting series 'Frontier House'. They took
three families, put them in the middle of a setting in 1880's Montana
with some basic supplies, livestock, seeds. They actually had to cross
the US in covered wagons (aka prairie schooners). They had to eke out a
living and PBS followed their progress. It was an interesting
show/experiment. Here's part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvNmOc1QirY

Jill

Loved that show. Have the whole series on DVD.