A cat forum. CatBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CatBanter forum » Cat Newsgroups » Cat health & behaviour
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Socializing shy cat to dog?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 11th 04, 11:02 PM
NEM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Socializing shy cat to dog?

Hi the I could really use some advice from the cat experts.

We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back
but is terrified of everyone else. In the interest of full disclosure,
I should admit that we did everything wrong to socialize her as a
kitten. (We had no idea what we were doing.) We adopted her from the
shelter when she was very, very young (the rescue workers said 8
weeks, but my guess is 5) and she bonded intensely to my partner
(still nurses her multiple times a day). We had just moved to a new
city and didn't know anyone, and so she interacted with very few
people and animals during her critical period for socialization. We
also did not work to build a food drive, so she isn't food motivated
at all (doesn't like treats or any food other than her bland
kibble--won't touch wet food or even milk, and we have tried many
different brands).

This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have
been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success. Since
we have a multistory home, we have kept the puppy on the first floor,
so the cat can have the second and third floors as her own territory.
We tried to entice the cat downstairs, first with food (no dice), and
then by ignoring her all day and calling her downstairs. This worked
for a while, but when we started crate training the puppy (lots of
crying and whining and barking) she got scared off and it's now very
difficult to get her on the same floor with him, even when he's crated
and/or asleep. Once he went upstairs and got a mouthful of her food.
She refused to eat until we put new, clean dishes down in a different
place.

The puppy has been wonderful. He does not chase her or bark at her.
But he is a loud, bumbling dork, and even mild interest in her on his
part (he will strike a play bow when he sees her) scares her half to
death. We have been training him to ignore her, but it is hard, slow
work, especially since she hardly ever makes herself visible to him.

We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be
nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any
ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a
positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything
motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally
loves, like petting and fetching toys).

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to give the details. Thanks for
any advice--

Nathan
  #2  
Old February 12th 04, 03:38 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004:

We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be
nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any
ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a
positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything
motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally
loves, like petting and fetching toys).


I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be
intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try
to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered
better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be
in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the
dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while
he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and
my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was
intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it
works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed
with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't
like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to
[reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #3  
Old February 12th 04, 03:38 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004:

We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be
nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any
ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a
positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything
motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally
loves, like petting and fetching toys).


I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be
intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try
to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered
better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be
in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the
dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while
he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and
my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was
intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it
works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed
with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't
like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to
[reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #4  
Old February 13th 04, 06:27 PM
NEM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Cheryl wrote in message ...
NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004:

We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be
nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any
ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a
positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything
motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally
loves, like petting and fetching toys).


I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be
intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try
to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered
better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be
in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the
dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while
he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and
my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was
intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it
works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed
with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't
like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to
[reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior.



Thanks, Cheryl. We have tried tethering (the dog, that is); even
holding the cat in our arms is too overwhelming to her. When he's
crated, she still hisses from a distance, which causes him to bark,
which causes her to retreat behind the radiator for hours. I will
try the Wysong treats and the livers; I had minor success with
freeze-dried chicken breast, but she now sees through that little
scheme. (She's a smart little @#$%!)

We're going to get much more systematic about having controlled
periods with both in the same room, but we need to find something
motivating to get her in the room in the first place. She hates his
smell and doesn't like to be anywhere she can smell him (won't get in
our bed if he's been on the sheets, for example). He holds a down-stay
pretty solidly now, so it should be easier than when he was a little
puppy. But she is so gloriously stubborn!
  #5  
Old February 13th 04, 06:27 PM
NEM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Cheryl wrote in message ...
NEM wrote in om on 11 Feb
2004:

We don't want to force the cat to interact with him, but it would be
nice to be able to have him upstairs sometimes. Does anyone have any
ideas? I'd like to classically condition it, so she develops a
positive association with his presence, but I can't think of anything
motivating (she's too freaked out to tolerate the things she normally
loves, like petting and fetching toys).


I don't have a dog, but have friends who do. I can see how they can be
intimidating to a timid cat. How about a harness for the dog? Maybe try
to get the kitty used to one, as well? Dogs can tolerate being tethered
better than cats which is why I say ease into it with the cat. Let them be
in each others presense briefly while both, or one, is tethered. Is the
dog kennel trained? If so, can you try to get the cat around the dog while
he's kenneled? I have a feral who was in a cage while being socialized and
my other cats got to know her while she was caged and no one was
intimidated. It would be good to find a treat that your cat will eat; it
works wonders. My feral sounds a lot like your cat and can't be bribed
with anything other than Wysong Cat treats. One of my other cats doesn't
like any treats or meat but loves raw chicken liver. These are "treats" to
[reward] enforce [good/desirable] behavior.



Thanks, Cheryl. We have tried tethering (the dog, that is); even
holding the cat in our arms is too overwhelming to her. When he's
crated, she still hisses from a distance, which causes him to bark,
which causes her to retreat behind the radiator for hours. I will
try the Wysong treats and the livers; I had minor success with
freeze-dried chicken breast, but she now sees through that little
scheme. (She's a smart little @#$%!)

We're going to get much more systematic about having controlled
periods with both in the same room, but we need to find something
motivating to get her in the room in the first place. She hates his
smell and doesn't like to be anywhere she can smell him (won't get in
our bed if he's been on the sheets, for example). He holds a down-stay
pretty solidly now, so it should be easier than when he was a little
puppy. But she is so gloriously stubborn!
  #6  
Old February 15th 04, 10:29 PM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004:

How long has it been since whichever one is newer came into the
house? You may have said, but I don't recall. :-)


---begin copy & paste-----

We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back
but is terrified of everyone else.


snip

This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have
been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success.

---end copy & paste----

I was hoping someone with experience with integrating both dogs and cats
would chime in. I'd like to get a dog some day; I have plenty of room and
a fully fensed in backyard and I LOVE dogs and I may have to go through
this some day. My sister did it with a full grown cat, then got a full
grown German Shepard rescue and then adopted a kitten and they all love
each other. I don't recall much of the integration but she said they
mostly all got along from the get go.

I wonder in this case if the "vanilla on the shoulder blade" trick would
help to make them all smell alike? I use feliway for my cats, but a friend
of mine tried the dog version and didn't see any difference with her dogs
behavior at all.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #7  
Old February 15th 04, 10:29 PM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004:

How long has it been since whichever one is newer came into the
house? You may have said, but I don't recall. :-)


---begin copy & paste-----

We have a 2.5-year-old cat whom we dearly love and who loves us back
but is terrified of everyone else.


snip

This past summer, we got a puppy, who is now 9 months old. We have
been trying to socialize the two, but haven't had any success.

---end copy & paste----

I was hoping someone with experience with integrating both dogs and cats
would chime in. I'd like to get a dog some day; I have plenty of room and
a fully fensed in backyard and I LOVE dogs and I may have to go through
this some day. My sister did it with a full grown cat, then got a full
grown German Shepard rescue and then adopted a kitten and they all love
each other. I don't recall much of the integration but she said they
mostly all got along from the get go.

I wonder in this case if the "vanilla on the shoulder blade" trick would
help to make them all smell alike? I use feliway for my cats, but a friend
of mine tried the dog version and didn't see any difference with her dogs
behavior at all.

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #8  
Old February 15th 04, 11:29 PM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004:

The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where
the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined
with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash
everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a
thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a
little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction.


Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog
isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting
the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving
a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box
and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really
good!

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #9  
Old February 15th 04, 11:29 PM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004:

The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where
the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined
with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash
everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a
thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a
little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction.


Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog
isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting
the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving
a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box
and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really
good!

--
Cheryl

Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet.
MIB II
  #10  
Old February 16th 04, 04:55 PM
NEM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Cheryl wrote in message ...
Laura R. wrote in on 15
Feb 2004:

The only thing that I can think of is a period of separation, where
the cat has a room that is completely off-limits to the dog, combined
with gradual reintroduction. It would probably be a good idea to wash
everything that has the puppy's scent on it and give the pup a
thorough bath to get rid of as much of his smell as possible, plus a
little vanilla (perhaps) during reintroduction.


Lots of good points. A baby gate would be good in this case, since a dog
isn't likely to be able to jump it but a cat can with ease. I guess getting
the cat used to knowing he has a safe place is good, probably also leaving
a litter box in that safe space so he doesn't feel scared going to the box
and then ending up with an elimination issue. The bath idea is really
good!


I just looked up "vanilla + shoulder + cats"--thanks, Laura! I will
try this and see if it helps. I think we may have erred too far on the
side of caution. The cat had two whole floors entirely to herself
(stairs are baby-gated), with her food and litterbox inside the safe
space. As a result, she set up house quite comfortably and decided
that as long as she could call us into her territory (through pitiful
mewling) whenever she wanted, she was perfectly happy as an
upstairs-apartment dweller. What we're doing now is bringing the dog
up into *her* space, and making him down-stay while she watches him
from a distance. Several times a day, no interaction between them. He
gets treated for calm behavior. Eventually I think we will put the
baby gates in front of one room on the second floor (where the cat's
litter and food/water are). We also no longer respond to her cries
(difficult though that is), making her come downstairs if she wants
attention.

Cheryl, don't take our experience as anything like a normal
experience. Most people I know (and I've asked EVERYONE with dogs &
cats) has said that it's taken anywhere from one day to six months.
Our kitty is definitely an outlier.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CatBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.