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I thought you were moving on from this thread......
"Laura R." wrote in message .. . circa 04 Feb 2004 17:21:56 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Yngver ) said, While you and Gaubster appear to be fascinated with who said what about whom in these food-related threads, and who ought to apologize to whom, you should realize that for the rest of us it's not of any real interest. So yes, you are right, none of that provides valuable information. What she said. Laura -- I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your ass will be laminated. |
#454
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I thought you were moving on from this thread......
"Laura R." wrote in message .. . circa 04 Feb 2004 17:21:56 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Yngver ) said, While you and Gaubster appear to be fascinated with who said what about whom in these food-related threads, and who ought to apologize to whom, you should realize that for the rest of us it's not of any real interest. So yes, you are right, none of that provides valuable information. What she said. Laura -- I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your ass will be laminated. |
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"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message ...
I wouldn't agree with either statement. I don't read much of Gaubster so I cannot comment on him, but I do find Steve Crane to be honest and knowledgeable. There is very much a dichotomy here with much animosity between the two groups. I value information from both but I do wish the people involved were more respectful towards each other. I sometimes wonder why any discussion between the two groups has to become an insult-match with whomever hurling the most hurtful insults feeling like they've won. Thank-you Rona, I think conflicts are inevitable. Whatever I post here is based upon the hard core science of nutrition. I often annotate what I post here with sources when requested. I enjoy debate on issues. We all learn in the process. I kind of have to snicker a bit. I spend my days with a bunch of board certified diplomates of internal medicine, dermatology, and nutrition. At those levels the debates are nearly as raucous. I think it becomes an "insult" match when one side finds the facts to be counter to thier expressed opinions and they are unable to find any data to support the opinions they have developed. Once the argument has been lost, name calling becomes the "argument" of choice. It's usually a clear signal someone has lost the debate badly. One thing I do recognize is that there are a lot of "lurkers" on this NG. I get emails from folks like that several times a week with questions about one thing or another. |
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"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message ...
I wouldn't agree with either statement. I don't read much of Gaubster so I cannot comment on him, but I do find Steve Crane to be honest and knowledgeable. There is very much a dichotomy here with much animosity between the two groups. I value information from both but I do wish the people involved were more respectful towards each other. I sometimes wonder why any discussion between the two groups has to become an insult-match with whomever hurling the most hurtful insults feeling like they've won. Thank-you Rona, I think conflicts are inevitable. Whatever I post here is based upon the hard core science of nutrition. I often annotate what I post here with sources when requested. I enjoy debate on issues. We all learn in the process. I kind of have to snicker a bit. I spend my days with a bunch of board certified diplomates of internal medicine, dermatology, and nutrition. At those levels the debates are nearly as raucous. I think it becomes an "insult" match when one side finds the facts to be counter to thier expressed opinions and they are unable to find any data to support the opinions they have developed. Once the argument has been lost, name calling becomes the "argument" of choice. It's usually a clear signal someone has lost the debate badly. One thing I do recognize is that there are a lot of "lurkers" on this NG. I get emails from folks like that several times a week with questions about one thing or another. |
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#458
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#459
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"Yngver" wrote in message ... (GAUBSTER2) wrote: Because the vast majority of people are feeding crap like 'Ol Roy and Friskies, Meow Mix, etc. If more people fed diets like Science Diet, What are some other foods like Science Diet? they would cut their risk factors dramatically. Hill's products have controlled levels of fat, sodium, calcium, phosphorus, etc. Gee, I don't think even Steve Crane himself would go so far as to make a statement like this. ROFL, You are right I won't make that claim because I cannot factually support it. Nobody can. It would be one of my dreams to have a huge clinical trial with about 1,000 dogs/cats each on a dozen different company products for a 20 year period and see what the difference might be. I happen to think that Science Diet would indeed come out on top. But that's merely my opinion and cannot be supported by any clinical trials that have ever been done. The costs of such a huge long term trial would break NASA's budget, much less anyone else's. I do think that excessive levels of anything are at best unnecessary and at worst dangerous. Feeding excessive levels of phosphorus to cats is simply unsupportable. There is no "good news" and we certainly know how common renal failure in cats is. Thus feeding a food with high levels of phosphorus to cats with undetected renal failure would be a very very bad idea. Excessive levels of calcium are also equally unnecessary but it does provide a clue to the quality of meat meals used by the manufacturer. The vast majority of calcium in a food comes from the meat meals. The cheaper the meat meal, the higher the percentage of ground up bone in the meat meal. Thus high calcium is kind of "barometer" of meat meal quality. Some other foods - Eukanuba generally does a good job, Royal Canin generally does a good job, Precise, Sako Ito in Japan generally do a pretty good job. |
#460
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"Yngver" wrote in message ... (GAUBSTER2) wrote: Because the vast majority of people are feeding crap like 'Ol Roy and Friskies, Meow Mix, etc. If more people fed diets like Science Diet, What are some other foods like Science Diet? they would cut their risk factors dramatically. Hill's products have controlled levels of fat, sodium, calcium, phosphorus, etc. Gee, I don't think even Steve Crane himself would go so far as to make a statement like this. ROFL, You are right I won't make that claim because I cannot factually support it. Nobody can. It would be one of my dreams to have a huge clinical trial with about 1,000 dogs/cats each on a dozen different company products for a 20 year period and see what the difference might be. I happen to think that Science Diet would indeed come out on top. But that's merely my opinion and cannot be supported by any clinical trials that have ever been done. The costs of such a huge long term trial would break NASA's budget, much less anyone else's. I do think that excessive levels of anything are at best unnecessary and at worst dangerous. Feeding excessive levels of phosphorus to cats is simply unsupportable. There is no "good news" and we certainly know how common renal failure in cats is. Thus feeding a food with high levels of phosphorus to cats with undetected renal failure would be a very very bad idea. Excessive levels of calcium are also equally unnecessary but it does provide a clue to the quality of meat meals used by the manufacturer. The vast majority of calcium in a food comes from the meat meals. The cheaper the meat meal, the higher the percentage of ground up bone in the meat meal. Thus high calcium is kind of "barometer" of meat meal quality. Some other foods - Eukanuba generally does a good job, Royal Canin generally does a good job, Precise, Sako Ito in Japan generally do a pretty good job. |
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