A cat forum. CatBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CatBanter forum » Cat Newsgroups » Cat health & behaviour
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Food Question



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #503  
Old February 7th 04, 01:03 AM
GAUBSTER2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

NO, not at all. I can see where what I typed could be taken one of two
ways.

I should have made myself more clear.


Forget it, Gaubster. Steve understood the point I was making and addressed
it.
It went right over your head and still does, I see.


No, reread what I posted. I said that I should have made myself more clear.
Obviously, you read into it what you wanted to see.

However, you aren't addressing the question I asked you:
I'll ask you again: Hill's products DO have controlled levels of fat,
sodium, calcium
phosphorus,
magnesium, etc. Do you dispute that?


Why don't you get back to me with all of the research YOU'VE done? Hmm?


My point (that you seemed to ignore or miss yourself) is that Hill's products
ARE LOWER in certain key nutrients that can cause or exacerbate certain disease
conditions. I want to lower risk factors for my pets, so I feed Hill's
products. That's all.
  #504  
Old February 7th 04, 01:03 AM
GAUBSTER2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

NO, not at all. I can see where what I typed could be taken one of two
ways.

I should have made myself more clear.


Forget it, Gaubster. Steve understood the point I was making and addressed
it.
It went right over your head and still does, I see.


No, reread what I posted. I said that I should have made myself more clear.
Obviously, you read into it what you wanted to see.

However, you aren't addressing the question I asked you:
I'll ask you again: Hill's products DO have controlled levels of fat,
sodium, calcium
phosphorus,
magnesium, etc. Do you dispute that?


Why don't you get back to me with all of the research YOU'VE done? Hmm?


My point (that you seemed to ignore or miss yourself) is that Hill's products
ARE LOWER in certain key nutrients that can cause or exacerbate certain disease
conditions. I want to lower risk factors for my pets, so I feed Hill's
products. That's all.
  #505  
Old February 7th 04, 04:01 AM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Yngver" wrote in message
...

Well, I checked, thinking it was Eukanuba's new formula but I find it's

SD's
Advanced Protection. You know, the formula that seven out of ten dog

owners
said made their dogs seem happier? I think Petsmart must have had their

signage
in the wrong place because I see the Hill's Web site doesn't make quite

the
same promises for the feline version of Advanced Protection as it does for

the
canine version. I was hoping this new formula would turn a plump lazy cat

into
a lean energetic one, but I guess it only does that with dogs. :-)


OK,
Now I know what you are talking about. Advanced Protection is a high
antioxidant product, based upon the work done in Cognitive Dysfunction
(Alzheimer's) in dogs. The "cocktail" of antioxidants shows great promise in
older dogs who have "slowed" down a bit in life. The biggest activity
involves the affects on the beta amyloid plaque deposited in the brain
neuron pathway which "interrupts" or perhaps "disrupts" nerve signal
passage. Interestingly it is the same 42 bit beta amyloid in humans as it is
in dogs. One of the most common reasons pet owners bring a dog into the
veterinary clinic to have it put to sleep after many years of companionship
is when the dog no longer remembers to defecate and urinate outside. In
about 70% of those dogs we can reverse the problem (with Prescription Diet
b/d) and extend the life the dog and the family have together. The
antioxidant cocktail in Advanced Protection is quite similar to b/d,
although not exactly the same.
I do not have as much faith in the concept in cats. While they do seem
to collect some similar oxidative brain damage over time - How would you
know an Alzheimer's cat from a normal one? :-)) All kidding aside the issue
of cognitive dysfunction in cats is nearly impossible to test. There are
simply not enough of them around to ever set up a decent clinical trial. In
dogs we can find cognitive dysfunctional easily, but in cats it's very
difficult to locate enough of them. This leaves what are called "In Home
User Trials" or IHUT's. You provide food in plain unmarked bags to a large
group of animals. Then ask the pet owner to log what they see or do not see.
Midway through the trial you switch the food without telling the pet owner
that you have done so and again ask for pet owner to continue to log
activates and behaviors. The difference between the daily activity logs
provides some information about the effectiveness of the food. The pet
owners are only told they are testing a pet food. They don't know what the
food is supposed to do or not do, nor do they know who the manufacturer is
or anything else about the food.


  #506  
Old February 7th 04, 04:01 AM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Yngver" wrote in message
...

Well, I checked, thinking it was Eukanuba's new formula but I find it's

SD's
Advanced Protection. You know, the formula that seven out of ten dog

owners
said made their dogs seem happier? I think Petsmart must have had their

signage
in the wrong place because I see the Hill's Web site doesn't make quite

the
same promises for the feline version of Advanced Protection as it does for

the
canine version. I was hoping this new formula would turn a plump lazy cat

into
a lean energetic one, but I guess it only does that with dogs. :-)


OK,
Now I know what you are talking about. Advanced Protection is a high
antioxidant product, based upon the work done in Cognitive Dysfunction
(Alzheimer's) in dogs. The "cocktail" of antioxidants shows great promise in
older dogs who have "slowed" down a bit in life. The biggest activity
involves the affects on the beta amyloid plaque deposited in the brain
neuron pathway which "interrupts" or perhaps "disrupts" nerve signal
passage. Interestingly it is the same 42 bit beta amyloid in humans as it is
in dogs. One of the most common reasons pet owners bring a dog into the
veterinary clinic to have it put to sleep after many years of companionship
is when the dog no longer remembers to defecate and urinate outside. In
about 70% of those dogs we can reverse the problem (with Prescription Diet
b/d) and extend the life the dog and the family have together. The
antioxidant cocktail in Advanced Protection is quite similar to b/d,
although not exactly the same.
I do not have as much faith in the concept in cats. While they do seem
to collect some similar oxidative brain damage over time - How would you
know an Alzheimer's cat from a normal one? :-)) All kidding aside the issue
of cognitive dysfunction in cats is nearly impossible to test. There are
simply not enough of them around to ever set up a decent clinical trial. In
dogs we can find cognitive dysfunctional easily, but in cats it's very
difficult to locate enough of them. This leaves what are called "In Home
User Trials" or IHUT's. You provide food in plain unmarked bags to a large
group of animals. Then ask the pet owner to log what they see or do not see.
Midway through the trial you switch the food without telling the pet owner
that you have done so and again ask for pet owner to continue to log
activates and behaviors. The difference between the daily activity logs
provides some information about the effectiveness of the food. The pet
owners are only told they are testing a pet food. They don't know what the
food is supposed to do or not do, nor do they know who the manufacturer is
or anything else about the food.


  #507  
Old February 7th 04, 04:21 AM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're kidding, right? A happier dog? That's a pretty interesting claim.
Wonder how SD tries to prove it, LOL

Lauren


The proof was presented at the World Veterinary Behavior meeting in British
Columbia three years ago. It was proven again with military dogs all around
the world. As a consequence of the testing done by Dr. Milgram in Toronto in
1999-2000 the US military switched all guard and work dogs over to the diet.
Now two years later they have proven the value by being able to keep dogs
"on-line" a full year longer than before. No loss of alertness on the job,
no need to retire the working dogs as early as they used to be forced to
retire them. It generated so much excitement that there are now three human
trials underway with human Alzheimer's patients. It was proven again in a
clinical study published in peer reviewed veterinary journals.


Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2002 Oct;26(6):679-95.

Landmark discrimination learning in the dog: effects of age, an antioxidant
fortified food, and cognitive strategy.
Milgram NW, Head E, Muggenburg B, Holowachuk D, Murphey H, Estrada J,
Ikeda-Douglas CJ, Zicker SC, Cotman CW.
Life Science Division, University of Toronto at Scarborough, 1265 Military
Trail, Scarborough, Ont., Canada M1C 1A4.
The landmark discrimination learning test can be used to assess the ability
to utilize allocentric spatial information to locate targets. The present
experiments examined the role of various factors on performance of a
landmark discrimination learning task in beagle dogs. Experiments 1 and 2
looked at the effects of age and food composition. Experiments 3 and 4 were
aimed at characterizing the cognitive strategies used in performance on this
task and in long-term retention. Cognitively equivalent groups of old and
young dogs were placed into either a test group maintained on food enriched
with a broad-spectrum of antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors, or a
control group maintained on a complete and balanced food formulated for
adult dogs. Following a wash-in period, the dogs were tested on a series of
problems, in which reward was obtained when the animal responded selectively
to the object closest to a thin wooden block, which served as a landmark. In
Experiment 1, dogs were first trained to respond to a landmark placed
directly on top of coaster, landmark 0 (L0). In the next phase of testing,
the landmark was moved at successively greater distances (1, 4 or 10 cm)
away from the reward object. Learning varied as a function of age group,
food group, and task. The young dogs learned all of the tasks more quickly
than the old dogs. The aged dogs on the enriched food learned L0
significantly more rapidly than aged dogs on control food. A higher
proportion of dogs on the enriched food learned the task, when the distance
was increased to 1cm. Experiment 2 showed that accuracy decreased with
increased distance between the reward object and landmark, and this effect
was greater in old animals. Experiment 3 showed stability of performance,
despite using a novel landmark, and new locations, indicating that dogs
learned the landmark concept. Experiment 4 found age impaired long-term
retention of the landmark task. These results indicate that allocentric
spatial learning is impaired in an age-dependent manner in dogs, and that
age also affects performance when the distance between the landmark and
target is increased. In addition, these results both support a role of
oxidative damage in the development of age-associated cognitive dysfunction
and indicate that short-term administration of a food enriched with
supplemental antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors can partially reverse
the deleterious effects of aging on cognition.


Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 2003 Mar;33(2):405-16, vii-viii
Dietary effects on canine and feline behavior.
Houpt KA, Zicker S.
Animal Behavior Clinic, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University,
Ithaca, NY 14853-6401, USA.
The effects of dietary deficiency, including both malnutrition and
deficiency of specific vitamins, on behavior is discussed with special
emphasis on the growing kitten and puppy. The effect of caloric restriction
on behavior is reviewed so that owners can be advised what to expect when
their dog is placed on a reducing diet. The evidence for influence of
dietary protein and tryptophan on canine aggression is presented. The effect
of special diets on canine cognitive dysfunction is reviewed.

I'd bet your not "LOL" now are you Lauren???


  #508  
Old February 7th 04, 04:21 AM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're kidding, right? A happier dog? That's a pretty interesting claim.
Wonder how SD tries to prove it, LOL

Lauren


The proof was presented at the World Veterinary Behavior meeting in British
Columbia three years ago. It was proven again with military dogs all around
the world. As a consequence of the testing done by Dr. Milgram in Toronto in
1999-2000 the US military switched all guard and work dogs over to the diet.
Now two years later they have proven the value by being able to keep dogs
"on-line" a full year longer than before. No loss of alertness on the job,
no need to retire the working dogs as early as they used to be forced to
retire them. It generated so much excitement that there are now three human
trials underway with human Alzheimer's patients. It was proven again in a
clinical study published in peer reviewed veterinary journals.


Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2002 Oct;26(6):679-95.

Landmark discrimination learning in the dog: effects of age, an antioxidant
fortified food, and cognitive strategy.
Milgram NW, Head E, Muggenburg B, Holowachuk D, Murphey H, Estrada J,
Ikeda-Douglas CJ, Zicker SC, Cotman CW.
Life Science Division, University of Toronto at Scarborough, 1265 Military
Trail, Scarborough, Ont., Canada M1C 1A4.
The landmark discrimination learning test can be used to assess the ability
to utilize allocentric spatial information to locate targets. The present
experiments examined the role of various factors on performance of a
landmark discrimination learning task in beagle dogs. Experiments 1 and 2
looked at the effects of age and food composition. Experiments 3 and 4 were
aimed at characterizing the cognitive strategies used in performance on this
task and in long-term retention. Cognitively equivalent groups of old and
young dogs were placed into either a test group maintained on food enriched
with a broad-spectrum of antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors, or a
control group maintained on a complete and balanced food formulated for
adult dogs. Following a wash-in period, the dogs were tested on a series of
problems, in which reward was obtained when the animal responded selectively
to the object closest to a thin wooden block, which served as a landmark. In
Experiment 1, dogs were first trained to respond to a landmark placed
directly on top of coaster, landmark 0 (L0). In the next phase of testing,
the landmark was moved at successively greater distances (1, 4 or 10 cm)
away from the reward object. Learning varied as a function of age group,
food group, and task. The young dogs learned all of the tasks more quickly
than the old dogs. The aged dogs on the enriched food learned L0
significantly more rapidly than aged dogs on control food. A higher
proportion of dogs on the enriched food learned the task, when the distance
was increased to 1cm. Experiment 2 showed that accuracy decreased with
increased distance between the reward object and landmark, and this effect
was greater in old animals. Experiment 3 showed stability of performance,
despite using a novel landmark, and new locations, indicating that dogs
learned the landmark concept. Experiment 4 found age impaired long-term
retention of the landmark task. These results indicate that allocentric
spatial learning is impaired in an age-dependent manner in dogs, and that
age also affects performance when the distance between the landmark and
target is increased. In addition, these results both support a role of
oxidative damage in the development of age-associated cognitive dysfunction
and indicate that short-term administration of a food enriched with
supplemental antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors can partially reverse
the deleterious effects of aging on cognition.


Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 2003 Mar;33(2):405-16, vii-viii
Dietary effects on canine and feline behavior.
Houpt KA, Zicker S.
Animal Behavior Clinic, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University,
Ithaca, NY 14853-6401, USA.
The effects of dietary deficiency, including both malnutrition and
deficiency of specific vitamins, on behavior is discussed with special
emphasis on the growing kitten and puppy. The effect of caloric restriction
on behavior is reviewed so that owners can be advised what to expect when
their dog is placed on a reducing diet. The evidence for influence of
dietary protein and tryptophan on canine aggression is presented. The effect
of special diets on canine cognitive dysfunction is reviewed.

I'd bet your not "LOL" now are you Lauren???


  #509  
Old February 7th 04, 10:44 AM
Hailey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WOW!!! I don't have dogs, but am c/ping this info for friends that DO! That
is amazing! Do they also make cat food with whatever they put in the dog
food ?
Thanks for that info, Steve
Hailey



The proof was presented at the World Veterinary Behavior meeting in

British
Columbia three years ago. It was proven again with military dogs all

around
the world. As a consequence of the testing done by Dr. Milgram in Toronto

in
1999-2000 the US military switched all guard and work dogs over to the

diet.
Now two years later they have proven the value by being able to keep dogs
"on-line" a full year longer than before. No loss of alertness on the job,
no need to retire the working dogs as early as they used to be forced to
retire them. It generated so much excitement that there are now three

human
trials underway with human Alzheimer's patients. It was proven again in a
clinical study published in peer reviewed veterinary journals.


Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2002 Oct;26(6):679-95.

Landmark discrimination learning in the dog: effects of age, an

antioxidant
fortified food, and cognitive strategy.
Milgram NW, Head E, Muggenburg B, Holowachuk D, Murphey H, Estrada J,
Ikeda-Douglas CJ, Zicker SC, Cotman CW.
Life Science Division, University of Toronto at Scarborough, 1265 Military
Trail, Scarborough, Ont., Canada M1C 1A4.
The landmark discrimination learning test can be used to assess the

ability
to utilize allocentric spatial information to locate targets. The present
experiments examined the role of various factors on performance of a
landmark discrimination learning task in beagle dogs. Experiments 1 and 2
looked at the effects of age and food composition. Experiments 3 and 4

were
aimed at characterizing the cognitive strategies used in performance on

this
task and in long-term retention. Cognitively equivalent groups of old and
young dogs were placed into either a test group maintained on food

enriched
with a broad-spectrum of antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors, or a
control group maintained on a complete and balanced food formulated for
adult dogs. Following a wash-in period, the dogs were tested on a series

of
problems, in which reward was obtained when the animal responded

selectively
to the object closest to a thin wooden block, which served as a landmark.

In
Experiment 1, dogs were first trained to respond to a landmark placed
directly on top of coaster, landmark 0 (L0). In the next phase of testing,
the landmark was moved at successively greater distances (1, 4 or 10 cm)
away from the reward object. Learning varied as a function of age group,
food group, and task. The young dogs learned all of the tasks more quickly
than the old dogs. The aged dogs on the enriched food learned L0
significantly more rapidly than aged dogs on control food. A higher
proportion of dogs on the enriched food learned the task, when the

distance
was increased to 1cm. Experiment 2 showed that accuracy decreased with
increased distance between the reward object and landmark, and this effect
was greater in old animals. Experiment 3 showed stability of performance,
despite using a novel landmark, and new locations, indicating that dogs
learned the landmark concept. Experiment 4 found age impaired long-term
retention of the landmark task. These results indicate that allocentric
spatial learning is impaired in an age-dependent manner in dogs, and that
age also affects performance when the distance between the landmark and
target is increased. In addition, these results both support a role of
oxidative damage in the development of age-associated cognitive

dysfunction
and indicate that short-term administration of a food enriched with
supplemental antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors can partially

reverse
the deleterious effects of aging on cognition.


Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 2003 Mar;33(2):405-16, vii-viii
Dietary effects on canine and feline behavior.
Houpt KA, Zicker S.
Animal Behavior Clinic, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell

University,
Ithaca, NY 14853-6401, USA.
The effects of dietary deficiency, including both malnutrition and
deficiency of specific vitamins, on behavior is discussed with special
emphasis on the growing kitten and puppy. The effect of caloric

restriction
on behavior is reviewed so that owners can be advised what to expect when
their dog is placed on a reducing diet. The evidence for influence of
dietary protein and tryptophan on canine aggression is presented. The

effect
of special diets on canine cognitive dysfunction is reviewed.

I'd bet your not "LOL" now are you Lauren???




  #510  
Old February 7th 04, 10:44 AM
Hailey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WOW!!! I don't have dogs, but am c/ping this info for friends that DO! That
is amazing! Do they also make cat food with whatever they put in the dog
food ?
Thanks for that info, Steve
Hailey



The proof was presented at the World Veterinary Behavior meeting in

British
Columbia three years ago. It was proven again with military dogs all

around
the world. As a consequence of the testing done by Dr. Milgram in Toronto

in
1999-2000 the US military switched all guard and work dogs over to the

diet.
Now two years later they have proven the value by being able to keep dogs
"on-line" a full year longer than before. No loss of alertness on the job,
no need to retire the working dogs as early as they used to be forced to
retire them. It generated so much excitement that there are now three

human
trials underway with human Alzheimer's patients. It was proven again in a
clinical study published in peer reviewed veterinary journals.


Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2002 Oct;26(6):679-95.

Landmark discrimination learning in the dog: effects of age, an

antioxidant
fortified food, and cognitive strategy.
Milgram NW, Head E, Muggenburg B, Holowachuk D, Murphey H, Estrada J,
Ikeda-Douglas CJ, Zicker SC, Cotman CW.
Life Science Division, University of Toronto at Scarborough, 1265 Military
Trail, Scarborough, Ont., Canada M1C 1A4.
The landmark discrimination learning test can be used to assess the

ability
to utilize allocentric spatial information to locate targets. The present
experiments examined the role of various factors on performance of a
landmark discrimination learning task in beagle dogs. Experiments 1 and 2
looked at the effects of age and food composition. Experiments 3 and 4

were
aimed at characterizing the cognitive strategies used in performance on

this
task and in long-term retention. Cognitively equivalent groups of old and
young dogs were placed into either a test group maintained on food

enriched
with a broad-spectrum of antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors, or a
control group maintained on a complete and balanced food formulated for
adult dogs. Following a wash-in period, the dogs were tested on a series

of
problems, in which reward was obtained when the animal responded

selectively
to the object closest to a thin wooden block, which served as a landmark.

In
Experiment 1, dogs were first trained to respond to a landmark placed
directly on top of coaster, landmark 0 (L0). In the next phase of testing,
the landmark was moved at successively greater distances (1, 4 or 10 cm)
away from the reward object. Learning varied as a function of age group,
food group, and task. The young dogs learned all of the tasks more quickly
than the old dogs. The aged dogs on the enriched food learned L0
significantly more rapidly than aged dogs on control food. A higher
proportion of dogs on the enriched food learned the task, when the

distance
was increased to 1cm. Experiment 2 showed that accuracy decreased with
increased distance between the reward object and landmark, and this effect
was greater in old animals. Experiment 3 showed stability of performance,
despite using a novel landmark, and new locations, indicating that dogs
learned the landmark concept. Experiment 4 found age impaired long-term
retention of the landmark task. These results indicate that allocentric
spatial learning is impaired in an age-dependent manner in dogs, and that
age also affects performance when the distance between the landmark and
target is increased. In addition, these results both support a role of
oxidative damage in the development of age-associated cognitive

dysfunction
and indicate that short-term administration of a food enriched with
supplemental antioxidants and mitochondrial cofactors can partially

reverse
the deleterious effects of aging on cognition.


Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 2003 Mar;33(2):405-16, vii-viii
Dietary effects on canine and feline behavior.
Houpt KA, Zicker S.
Animal Behavior Clinic, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell

University,
Ithaca, NY 14853-6401, USA.
The effects of dietary deficiency, including both malnutrition and
deficiency of specific vitamins, on behavior is discussed with special
emphasis on the growing kitten and puppy. The effect of caloric

restriction
on behavior is reviewed so that owners can be advised what to expect when
their dog is placed on a reducing diet. The evidence for influence of
dietary protein and tryptophan on canine aggression is presented. The

effect
of special diets on canine cognitive dysfunction is reviewed.

I'd bet your not "LOL" now are you Lauren???




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Science Diet question... Joe Canuck Cat health & behaviour 188 December 12th 03 01:30 AM
Reply for Phil -L. Cat health & behaviour 8 October 23rd 03 12:30 PM
Follow-up question about canned cat food Jerold Pearson Cat health & behaviour 34 August 8th 03 01:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CatBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.