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  #21  
Old December 14th 10, 03:58 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Yowie
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Posts: 3,225
Default Wife sitting in chair

In ,
David Stevenson typed:
Yowie wrote
Not wanting to enter (or start!) a flamefest, but I would not let my
cats attract attention in physically injurous ways either. Meowing
loudly and getting in my face are annoying enough, I am *not* going
to let them think thats its in any way OK to hurt me or mine on
purpose (and fairs fair, if one of the two-foots hurts either of
them accidently we get a swift bite or nasty scratch for our trouble
to let them know that they dont' think being hurt is acceptable
either). Last thing I'd want them to do is hurt Cary once they
realise he's just as capable of operating the kibble box as I am.


What you would do is your affair but when a person writes

"This is just COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE behavior."

about my wife I think that is the most disgusting despicable post I
have ever read here.

I think Gandalf's post was totally unacceptable and a disgrace.

I think it a totally hurtful post, designed to cause offence, and i
am very glad that one or two people have reacted to it.

Horrible, absolutely horrible.

I do not post very often these days and if Gandalf's reaction to my
post is considered reasonable by you, Yowie, I may never post here
again.


Gandalf's words are not mine. I am unable to say how he interpretted what
you wrote, and thereby why he reacted to them as he did, and nor can I tell
whether the offence you now feel was intentional or unintentional on
Gandalf's part. Thats Gandalf's call, not mine. It certainly wasn't
*my*reaction to your post, and I would have to know alot more about what was
going through Gandlaf's head and what prompted him to post as he did before
I could even begin to say whether I thought it was 'reasonable' given what
he was thinking & feeling at the time. What I can tell you, however, that I
did find Gandalf's reaction unusual and out of character for him, that I do
not support nor comprehend the intensity of his reaction, and that I
understand how you could well feel offended by it.

That being said, however, your funny anecdote about Nico could well lead
into a more rational discussion about the quirks our cats have, and which
ones we'll tolerate and which ones we won't. As a logical and rational
person yourself, I suspect you'll agree that 'acceptable cat behvaiour' is a
slippery slope argument - if Nico was clawing to the point of causing deep
gashes in Liz's leg, just saying 'ow' and letting him continue would be
unacceptable both in terms of Liz's well being and Nico's behaviour.
However, a light bloodless poke from Nico that illicits an 'ow' is, if not
desirable, then tolerable and even - as you wrote - rather amusing in
context. Somewhere between deep gauges and a light poke there is a line
where the behaviour stops being 'acceptable' or 'tolerable' and starts being
'unacceptable'. The point where that line happens to lie varies from person
to person, and thats the angle I was coming in from. I am of the opinion
intentional and pre-planned *physical harm* on behalf of the cat is
unacceptable behaviour, and I wouldn't tolerate it, just I as I very quickly
made sure that Cary understood that biting, punching & kicking were not
acceptable ways of getting my attention when he was a toddler.

I have absolutely no way of knowing to what degree Nico tapped at your
wife's leg, and nor can I know whether had I been on the receiving end
rather than your wife, I would've have reacted any differently than she did.
Since I cannot in any way say whether I would have considered it
'acceptable' or 'unacceptable', I cannot in any good concious agree with
Gandalf's assessment that it was "COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE" without having
actually experienced it for myself. I can only trust in you & your good
wife's judgement of the situation and your relationship with your cats is,
in the end, entirely your business. I know where my 'line in the sand is'
with cats as I am sure you do and I suspect that they are not actually that
far apart.

My sincerest aplogies to you & your wife for any offence I inadvertently
caused.

Vicky


  #22  
Old December 14th 10, 04:48 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_3_]
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Posts: 1,078
Default Wife sitting in chair

Again, sorry for the top post but I have no patience tonight for my horrid
software. This thread has me very sad. If our cats express their
affection, or impatience, or need for attention in a way that we don't want,
it makes no sense to them to yell at them or smack them or what ever other
emotion we humans use to discourage it. This is a subject dear to my heart
because of Shamrock. They don't respond to those methods. Shrieking, yes,
ignoring, yes. Punishment, banishment, no. Rehoming is just the worst
thing to happen to them for this kind of misbehavior. I'm very sad to read
some of the replies.



"Sherry" wrote in message
...

On Dec 12, 10:34 pm, "Yowie"
wrote:
Not wanting to enter (or start!) a flamefest, but I would not let my cats
attract attention in physically injurous ways either. Meowing loudly and
getting in my face are annoying enough, I am *not* going to let them think
thats its in any way OK to hurt me or mine on purpose (and fairs fair, if
one of the two-foots hurts either of them accidently we get a swift bite
or
nasty scratch for our trouble to let them know that they dont' think being
hurt is acceptable either). Last thing I'd want them to do is hurt Cary
once
they realise he's just as capable of operating the kibble box as I am.

Yowie


shrug Different interpretations, I guess. If you're replying to my
post,
I wouldn't call it "phyiscally injurious" in any way, shape or form. I
never
had even a mark on my leg. The key word is "intent". He didn't intend
to "phyiscally injure" me. If he wanted to, believe me, he could have.
The most I'd do is scold him and rake his paw off my leg with my hand.
Same with love bites, or kneading? There's a little discomfort there
for
the owner, but no injury, and no intent to harm.
Would you punish them for that too?
I've had cats for 40 years at least, and have *never* gotten rid of
one
because he was too aggressive. I know where the line is between
a cat asking for a pet, and a cat who's aggressively trying to hurt
me.


Sherry

  #23  
Old December 14th 10, 04:49 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Cheryl[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default Wife sitting in chair

I think some reactions need to be replied to so that it may cause one to
think about their reaction. I wouldn't kill file it.



"Granby" wrote in message ...

for my part it was not unreasonable but probably as I said knee jerk
reaction to someone deliberately letting a cat claw them. If you don't like
what someone posts, you don't have to stop, just put them in a kill file and
post away. To each his own.

  #24  
Old December 14th 10, 08:17 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Yowie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,225
Default Wife sitting in chair

In ,
Cheryl typed:
Again, sorry for the top post but I have no patience tonight for my
horrid software. This thread has me very sad. If our cats express
their affection, or impatience, or need for attention in a way that
we don't want, it makes no sense to them to yell at them or smack
them or what ever other emotion we humans use to discourage it. This
is a subject dear to my heart because of Shamrock. They don't respond
to those methods. Shrieking, yes, ignoring, yes. Punishment,
banishment, no. Rehoming is just the worst thing to happen to them
for this kind of misbehavior. I'm very sad to read some of the
replies.


I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you, Cheryl.

I think I have to clarify, though. I said one of the methods I use to
discourage kitty from excess claw is "removing from the scene". I didn't
mean *banishment*, I meant moving kitty away from the leg (relocation to the
scratching pole for example) and moving leg away from kitty.

Yowie


  #25  
Old December 14th 10, 02:36 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
NettieCat
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Posts: 475
Default Wife sitting in chair

On Dec 13, 2:23*am, David Stevenson wrote:
* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!"

* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!"

* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!" *Then she kicks out.

* Don't worry, she missed. *Nico is quick.

You have a very patient wife, and a cat who knows just how far to push
his luck

I don't mind claw 'pushes' to the skin, it's what cats do, but I do
discourage them from plucking at my sweaters, especially the ones I've
only recently finished knitting.

Jeanette

  #26  
Old December 14th 10, 05:13 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
David Stevenson
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Posts: 412
Default Wife sitting in chair

NettieCat wrote
On Dec 13, 2:23*am, David Stevenson wrote:
* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!"

* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!"

* Nico looks at her. *Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

* "Owww !!!!" *Then she kicks out.

* Don't worry, she missed. *Nico is quick.

You have a very patient wife, and a cat who knows just how far to push
his luck


Exactly.

I don't mind claw 'pushes' to the skin, it's what cats do, but I do
discourage them from plucking at my sweaters, especially the ones I've
only recently finished knitting.


Sure. But I would not care if you *did* mind claw pushes ot the skin:
that's your right. I would not tell you how to behave.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.org/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nico: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T+ A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P+ B+ PA PL- SC+
Nemo: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P B+ PA PL- SC+
  #27  
Old December 14th 10, 07:06 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Granby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,742
Default Wife sitting in chair

Merry Christmas to one and all.
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...
NettieCat wrote
On Dec 13, 2:23 am, David Stevenson wrote:
Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!" Then she kicks out.

Don't worry, she missed. Nico is quick.

You have a very patient wife, and a cat who knows just how far to push
his luck


Exactly.

I don't mind claw 'pushes' to the skin, it's what cats do, but I do
discourage them from plucking at my sweaters, especially the ones I've
only recently finished knitting.


Sure. But I would not care if you *did* mind claw pushes ot the skin:
that's your right. I would not tell you how to behave.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.org/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nico: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T+ A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P+ B+ PA PL-
SC+
Nemo: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P B+ PA PL-
SC+



  #28  
Old December 14th 10, 07:11 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Storrmmee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,912
Default Wife sitting in chair

what a sad story, that your wife would tolerate such behavior so many times
and then instead of instituting proper behavior on her part, resorts to
stupidly kicking at a cat,

you would think someone who has had cats as long as the two of you have
would have know better, both to not allow it to happen that many times and
to resort to that sort of kicking at a cat, Lee
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!" Then she kicks out.

Don't worry, she missed. Nico is quick.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.org/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nico: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T+ A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P+ B+ PA PL-
SC+
Nemo: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P B+ PA PL-
SC+



  #29  
Old December 14th 10, 07:15 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Storrmmee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,912
Default Wife sitting in chair

i am all for the yelling to stop the behavior the first time, but not after
that, its why god made water bottle and other loud noises...

as to the part about NOT having a cat that would injure you, had DH and i
not worked with mathew harold we would have missed a wonderful being... when
he attavcked the back of my legs it was so bad two members of weight
watchers and a leader took me aside to ask if dh had started hitting me...
when he attacked dh, he could barely use his hand for two weeks...

after consulting the vet, and working some things out he is now a wonderful
boy, and to be in the interest of full desclosure, if it ever happens again
i will have him pts as he has now shown that he can live life without this
type of behavoir.

like it or not that is the way it is,

Lee
ingold1234[at]yahoo[dot]com (Gandalf) wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 02:23:32 +0000, David Stevenson
wrote:


Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!"

Nico looks at her. Then, slowly, deliberately, he sticks his claws in
her bare lower leg.

"Owww !!!!" Then she kicks out.

Don't worry, she missed. Nico is quick.


Is there some RATIONAL reason WHY you would let a cat, ANY cat, get away
with this kind of crap?

This is just COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE behavior.

Letting a cat GET AWAY with this kind of behavior, even a SINGLE time,
is INSANITY, pure and simple.

No cat would EVER get away with that, in MY house.

But then, I simply wouldn't HAVE a cat that would INTENTIONALLY INJURE
ME.

Shaking my head in disbelief



  #30  
Old December 14th 10, 07:22 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Storrmmee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,912
Default Wife sitting in chair

gandolf may have over reacted, but this post is more of the same, i would
prefer you continue posting, but it is YOUR affair if you chose not to, Lee
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote
Not wanting to enter (or start!) a flamefest, but I would not let my cats
attract attention in physically injurous ways either. Meowing loudly and
getting in my face are annoying enough, I am *not* going to let them think
thats its in any way OK to hurt me or mine on purpose (and fairs fair, if
one of the two-foots hurts either of them accidently we get a swift bite
or
nasty scratch for our trouble to let them know that they dont' think being
hurt is acceptable either). Last thing I'd want them to do is hurt Cary
once
they realise he's just as capable of operating the kibble box as I am.


What you would do is your affair but when a person writes

"This is just COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE behavior."

about my wife I think that is the most disgusting despicable post I have
ever read here.

I think Gandalf's post was totally unacceptable and a disgrace.

I think it a totally hurtful post, designed to cause offence, and i am
very glad that one or two people have reacted to it.

Horrible, absolutely horrible.

I do not post very often these days and if Gandalf's reaction to my post
is considered reasonable by you, Yowie, I may never post here again.

--
David Stevenson Storypage: http://blakjak.org/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK Emails welcome
Nico: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T+ A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P+ B+ PA PL-
SC+
Nemo: SI Vp B 0.6 Y++ L-- W C+++ I+++ T A+ E++ H S+ V+ F- Q P B+ PA PL-
SC+



 




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