Advice needed

(Tracy) wrote:

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can absolutely see both
sides of the issue. But when you say something like this, my
perception is that some of this group is composed of people who come
around here moaning of the plethora of serious behavioral problems
they are having with their indoor-only and seemingly
getting-more-neurotic everyday cats.

You are absolutely right--on the U.S. side of the issue, the possibility that
there are negative aspects of keeping cats confined indoors is seldom
considered. Keeping cats indoors 24/7 is often promoted in the U.S. as ideal,
and the fact that indoor only cats have a higher incidence of behavioral
problems and are more likely to be obese is generally not mentioned in these
"keep your cat indoors" promotions.

While I'm lucky to have a reasonable indoor-outdoor option where I
live, I also don't have cats with litterbox and elimination problems
(mine share one inside litterbox with zero problems and one outdoor
gravel area near my garbage cans),
inappropriate aggression, incompatibility between cats, scratching
problems, overweight, food sensitivites, depression or the need for
kitty prozac. It strikes me there can be a connection.

There is a connection. Of course, as usual you will get some responses saying
"my cat is indoors and doesn't have behavioral problems." But you are correct
that statistically the indoor only cat is more likely to exhibit such
problems--which of course means that many don't.

I volunteer regularly at a no-kill shelter where the vast majority of
the cats are not strays - they are owner surrenders due to behavioral
problems like the ones mentioned above. I'm guessing the kill shelters
recive the same overflow of cats for the same reasons. So you could
say that behavioral problems that some cats experience when they
temperamentally want and need some outdoor time and don't get it, is
also very dangerous and potentially fatal for some cats.

This is a point Dr. Nicholas Dodman, from Tufts University School of Medicine,
has made as well. More cats in the U.S. are euthanized for behavioral problems
than for terminal conditions, so yes, when a cat exhibits behavioral problems
it can indeed become fatal.

I just don't find the hyperbole all that helpful. There are no black
and white answers that apply in every situation.

I for one agree completely. Since the OP is in the U.K., I don't understand why
some people in this thread are bringing up threats that don't even exist
there--is it so ingrained in the heads of some U.S. cat owners that indoors is
the only way that they cannot even imagine situations in which it is reasonably
safe to have indoor/outdoor cats?

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.


But when you say something like this, my perception is that some of this
group is composed of people who come around here moaning of the plethora of
serious behavioral problems
they are having with their indoor-only and seemingly
getting-more-neurotic everyday cats.

Perphaps I can help you with this. The reason my statement makes you think
this is because you have a lazy mind and tend toward gross generalizations.
Not a very effective way of thinking. Assignment 1: find a single post of
mine (Google my email address under "groups, advanced search) in which I
talk about a single behavioral
problem in my cats. Just one. While you may use another poster as an example
of unhappy indoor cats, your attempt to use me as an example was, well, ill
advised.



While I'm lucky to have a reasonable indoor-outdoor option where I
live

And that you can bear the thought of your "beloved" pets getting slaughterd,
too, right?

, I also don't have cats with litterbox and elimination problems
(mine share one inside litterbox with zero problems and one outdoor
gravel area near my garbage cans),
inappropriate aggression, incompatibility between cats, scratching
problems, overweight, food sensitivites, depression or the need for
kitty prozac. It strikes me there can be a connection.

I volunteer regularly at a no-kill shelter where the vast majority of
the cats are not strays - they are owner surrenders due to behavioral
problems like the ones mentioned above. I'm guessing the kill shelters
recive the same overflow of cats for the same reasons. So you could
say that behavioral problems that some cats experience when they
temperamentally want and need some outdoor time and don't get it, is
also very dangerous and potentially fatal for some cats.

I just don't find the hyperbole all that helpful. There are no black and
white answers that apply in every situation.

If you allow your cats to roam you endanger them and I don't give a rat's
ass how many shelters you allegedly volunteer at, or what you find helpful.
My opinion. You are entitled to your own and I am perfectly tickled that you
expressed it.

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.


But when you say something like this, my perception is that some of this
group is composed of people who come around here moaning of the plethora of
serious behavioral problems
they are having with their indoor-only and seemingly
getting-more-neurotic everyday cats.

Perphaps I can help you with this. The reason my statement makes you think
this is because you have a lazy mind and tend toward gross generalizations.
Not a very effective way of thinking. Assignment 1: find a single post of
mine (Google my email address under "groups, advanced search) in which I
talk about a single behavioral
problem in my cats. Just one. While you may use another poster as an example
of unhappy indoor cats, your attempt to use me as an example was, well, ill
advised.



While I'm lucky to have a reasonable indoor-outdoor option where I
live

And that you can bear the thought of your "beloved" pets getting slaughterd,
too, right?

, I also don't have cats with litterbox and elimination problems
(mine share one inside litterbox with zero problems and one outdoor
gravel area near my garbage cans),
inappropriate aggression, incompatibility between cats, scratching
problems, overweight, food sensitivites, depression or the need for
kitty prozac. It strikes me there can be a connection.

I volunteer regularly at a no-kill shelter where the vast majority of
the cats are not strays - they are owner surrenders due to behavioral
problems like the ones mentioned above. I'm guessing the kill shelters
recive the same overflow of cats for the same reasons. So you could
say that behavioral problems that some cats experience when they
temperamentally want and need some outdoor time and don't get it, is
also very dangerous and potentially fatal for some cats.

I just don't find the hyperbole all that helpful. There are no black and
white answers that apply in every situation.

If you allow your cats to roam you endanger them and I don't give a rat's
ass how many shelters you allegedly volunteer at, or what you find helpful.
My opinion. You are entitled to your own and I am perfectly tickled that you
expressed it.

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.


But when you say something like this, my perception is that some of this
group is composed of people who come around here moaning of the plethora of
serious behavioral problems
they are having with their indoor-only and seemingly
getting-more-neurotic everyday cats.

Perphaps I can help you with this. The reason my statement makes you think
this is because you have a lazy mind and tend toward gross generalizations.
Not a very effective way of thinking. Assignment 1: find a single post of
mine (Google my email address under "groups, advanced search) in which I
talk about a single behavioral
problem in my cats. Just one. While you may use another poster as an example
of unhappy indoor cats, your attempt to use me as an example was, well, ill
advised.



While I'm lucky to have a reasonable indoor-outdoor option where I
live

And that you can bear the thought of your "beloved" pets getting slaughterd,
too, right?

, I also don't have cats with litterbox and elimination problems
(mine share one inside litterbox with zero problems and one outdoor
gravel area near my garbage cans),
inappropriate aggression, incompatibility between cats, scratching
problems, overweight, food sensitivites, depression or the need for
kitty prozac. It strikes me there can be a connection.

I volunteer regularly at a no-kill shelter where the vast majority of
the cats are not strays - they are owner surrenders due to behavioral
problems like the ones mentioned above. I'm guessing the kill shelters
recive the same overflow of cats for the same reasons. So you could
say that behavioral problems that some cats experience when they
temperamentally want and need some outdoor time and don't get it, is
also very dangerous and potentially fatal for some cats.

I just don't find the hyperbole all that helpful. There are no black and
white answers that apply in every situation.

If you allow your cats to roam you endanger them and I don't give a rat's
ass how many shelters you allegedly volunteer at, or what you find helpful.
My opinion. You are entitled to your own and I am perfectly tickled that you
expressed it.

I for one agree completely. Since the OP is in the U.K., I don't understand
why
some people in this thread are bringing up threats that don't even exist
there--is it so ingrained in the heads of some U.S. cat owners that indoors
is
the only way that they cannot even imagine situations in which it is
reasonably
safe to have indoor/outdoor cats?

IIRC, the original poster says he has a busy street in front, and a car park
in the back. It's pretty easy to imagine the cat coming to a bad end.

Sherry

I for one agree completely. Since the OP is in the U.K., I don't understand
why
some people in this thread are bringing up threats that don't even exist
there--is it so ingrained in the heads of some U.S. cat owners that indoors
is
the only way that they cannot even imagine situations in which it is
reasonably
safe to have indoor/outdoor cats?

IIRC, the original poster says he has a busy street in front, and a car park
in the back. It's pretty easy to imagine the cat coming to a bad end.

Sherry

I for one agree completely. Since the OP is in the U.K., I don't understand
why
some people in this thread are bringing up threats that don't even exist
there--is it so ingrained in the heads of some U.S. cat owners that indoors
is
the only way that they cannot even imagine situations in which it is
reasonably
safe to have indoor/outdoor cats?

IIRC, the original poster says he has a busy street in front, and a car park
in the back. It's pretty easy to imagine the cat coming to a bad end.

Sherry

"Mary" wrote

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.

SNIP

Mary you are totally rude and obnoxious with your "My way is the right
way" bull****. You don't know the OP's living situation, therfore you
just don't know if its safe or not to let a cat outside where they
live. I have never had an incident with my outside/inside cats! It is
healthy for a cat to go play outside if you don't believe me PET ask a
vet! Everyone has the right to make their own decisions on wheather
their area is a safe area or not. Admit it! YOU DON"T KNOW WHERE THE
OP'S LIVE!! THEREFORE YOU DON"T KNOW IF ITS SAFE OR NOT!!
--
James Marz

If it's true that we are here to help others,
then what exactly are the others here for?

"Mary" wrote

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.

SNIP

Mary you are totally rude and obnoxious with your "My way is the right
way" bull****. You don't know the OP's living situation, therfore you
just don't know if its safe or not to let a cat outside where they
live. I have never had an incident with my outside/inside cats! It is
healthy for a cat to go play outside if you don't believe me PET ask a
vet! Everyone has the right to make their own decisions on wheather
their area is a safe area or not. Admit it! YOU DON"T KNOW WHERE THE
OP'S LIVE!! THEREFORE YOU DON"T KNOW IF ITS SAFE OR NOT!!
--
James Marz

If it's true that we are here to help others,
then what exactly are the others here for?

"Mary" wrote

"Tracy" wrote in message
om...
"Mary" wrote in message
.com...

You bet. But please don't come around moaning if
your cat gets run over, poisoned, etc. If it happens, it
happensbecause you let it happen. Period.

Mary, I'm not trying to be rude here, and I can
absolutely see both sides of the issue.

How nice for you. I see both sides, too. The side I am not on goes likethis:
cats who go out are free to frolic in the fresh green grass and play with
other pretty little kitties
and doggies none of whom are diseased or aggressive. They may breathe in the
fresh air and enjoy the caresses and greetings of the neighbors, none of
whom hate
cats or drive too fast or forget to look for cats when they back out of
their driveways or turn onto streets. (And perhaps best of all, there is
less mess in the cat box for the Noble Humans to clean up.) Be Free God's
Creature, Etc.

The fact remains that people who allow their cats to roam know full and well
that they are leaving them at the mercy of whatever else may be
outdoors.REGARDLESS of whether they have actually SEEN dead cats in the
street. Theyknow the cats might be killed. And when they are, I don't want
to hear about it. Why? Because morons (oops, was that RUDE?) who claim to
love cats and yet endanger them and allow them to suffer and die are even
worse to me than people who will tell you outright that they hate cats. And
I don't want to hear about their great grief when kitty gets her guts
splattered on the pavement by a car ora dog. That is what I said and that is
what I meant.

SNIP

Mary you are totally rude and obnoxious with your "My way is the right
way" bull****. You don't know the OP's living situation, therfore you
just don't know if its safe or not to let a cat outside where they
live. I have never had an incident with my outside/inside cats! It is
healthy for a cat to go play outside if you don't believe me PET ask a
vet! Everyone has the right to make their own decisions on wheather
their area is a safe area or not. Admit it! YOU DON"T KNOW WHERE THE
OP'S LIVE!! THEREFORE YOU DON"T KNOW IF ITS SAFE OR NOT!!
--
James Marz

If it's true that we are here to help others,
then what exactly are the others here for?