[OT] Poor baby birds!

Every year, millions of day-old baby chicks are mailed via the U.S. Postal
Service by commercial hatcheries and cockfighting breeders. The chicks are
literally packed in boxes and sent through the mail, without food or water,
and with no concern for temperature extremes. This inhumane practice results
in the deaths of countless baby birds every year.

After receiving complaints from various animal protection groups, the U.S.
Postal Service adopted policy changes to help protect birds shipped in the
mail. The new regulations require that the shipment of all live animals be
coordinated through central offices to ensure their arrival and limit the
length of time the animals can be in transit via ground transportation.

In response to the new regulations adopted by the U.S. Postal Service,
Senator Charles Grassley has introduced S. 2395, which would remove the
Postal Service's authority to implement the new regulations and force it to
accommodate the baby bird and cockfighting industries. S. 2395 would provide
that the Postal Service require certain airlines to transport birds, require
those airlines to transport the birds through connecting cities, not
necessarily direct flights, and require those airlines to transport birds in
any temperature conditions between 0 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

If passed, this bill will undoubtedly lead to unnecessary suffering for
millions of baby birds! Contact your Senators now and urge them to oppose S.
2395!

http://tinyurl.com/fej76

"Pat" wrote in message
.. .
Every year, millions of day-old baby chicks are mailed via the U.S. Postal
Service by commercial hatcheries and cockfighting breeders. The chicks are
literally packed in boxes and sent through the mail, without food or
water,

I would just like to point out here that chicks of the chicken variety at
least do not need food or water for 48 hours or a bit more. The reason
being that the yolk sac that has been sustaining them inside the egg has
only just been absorbed into the abdomen at the navel site shortly before
hatching.
and with no concern for temperature extremes.

Day old chicks need temperatures of 104f (ish) which is the temperature they
would experience if they were tucked under a broody hen. That is why they
need to be under a heat lamp if they are hatched in a incubator.

This inhumane practice results in the deaths of countless baby birds every
year.

It is not inhumane to ship day old chicks without food or water. They do
not need it. Nor in high temperatures, as they need these. I would suggest
that if countless chicks are dying it is more likely because they are
packed in too tightly in boxes that do not provide them with enough oxygen.
I would suggest a reduction in the number of chicks in a box would go a long
way to reducing deaths.

After receiving complaints from various animal protection groups

Animal protection groups are all very well if they know what they are
talking about.
I have been breeding poultry for many years and have reared hundreds of
chicks, some of which had to stay in the incubator for up to 3 days if it
was a long drawn out hatch and there were still eggs pipping out. To open
the incubator would destroy the high humidity needed for these eggs to
hatch. The older chicks were always absolutely fine, feeding on their yolk
sacs for this period. I never lost one.

Tweed



coordinated through central offices to ensure their arrival and limit the
length of time the animals can be in transit via ground transportation.

In response to the new regulations adopted by the U.S. Postal Service,
Senator Charles Grassley has introduced S. 2395, which would remove the
Postal Service's authority to implement the new regulations and force it
to accommodate the baby bird and cockfighting industries. S. 2395 would
provide that the Postal Service require certain airlines to transport
birds, require those airlines to transport the birds through connecting
cities, not necessarily direct flights, and require those airlines to
transport birds in any temperature conditions between 0 and 100 degrees
Fahrenheit.

If passed, this bill will undoubtedly lead to unnecessary suffering for
millions of baby birds! Contact your Senators now and urge them to oppose
S. 2395!

http://tinyurl.com/fej76

"Christina Websell" wrote

I would just like to point out here that chicks of the chicken variety at
least do not need food or water for 48 hours or a bit more. The reason
being that the yolk sac that has been sustaining them inside the egg has
only just been absorbed into the abdomen at the navel site shortly before
hatching.

Day old chicks need temperatures of 104f (ish) which is the temperature
they would experience if they were tucked under a broody hen. That is why
they need to be under a heat lamp if they are hatched in a incubator.

It is not inhumane to ship day old chicks without food or water. They do
not need it. Nor in high temperatures, as they need these. I would
suggest that if countless chicks are dying it is more likely because they
are packed in too tightly in boxes that do not provide them with enough
oxygen. I would suggest a reduction in the number of chicks in a box would
go a long way to reducing deaths.

Animal protection groups are all very well if they know what they are
talking about.
I have been breeding poultry for many years and have reared hundreds of
chicks, some of which had to stay in the incubator for up to 3 days if it
was a long drawn out hatch and there were still eggs pipping out. To open
the incubator would destroy the high humidity needed for these eggs to
hatch. The older chicks were always absolutely fine, feeding on their
yolk sacs for this period. I never lost one.


Tweed I think you missed your calling, you ought to be a consultant for the
cockfighting industry!

"Pat" wrote in message
.. .

"Christina Websell" wrote

I would just like to point out here that chicks of the chicken variety at
least do not need food or water for 48 hours or a bit more. The reason
being that the yolk sac that has been sustaining them inside the egg has
only just been absorbed into the abdomen at the navel site shortly before
hatching.

Day old chicks need temperatures of 104f (ish) which is the temperature
they would experience if they were tucked under a broody hen. That is
why they need to be under a heat lamp if they are hatched in a incubator.

It is not inhumane to ship day old chicks without food or water. They do
not need it. Nor in high temperatures, as they need these. I would
suggest that if countless chicks are dying it is more likely because
they are packed in too tightly in boxes that do not provide them with
enough oxygen. I would suggest a reduction in the number of chicks in a
box would go a long way to reducing deaths.

Animal protection groups are all very well if they know what they are
talking about.
I have been breeding poultry for many years and have reared hundreds of
chicks, some of which had to stay in the incubator for up to 3 days if it
was a long drawn out hatch and there were still eggs pipping out. To
open the incubator would destroy the high humidity needed for these eggs
to hatch. The older chicks were always absolutely fine, feeding on their
yolk sacs for this period. I never lost one.


Tweed I think you missed your calling, you ought to be a consultant for
the cockfighting industry!


Uncalled for

Cheryl Perkins wrote:
Pat wrote:

Tweed I think you missed your calling, you ought to be a consultant
for the cockfighting industry!

Tweed didn't say a thing about cockfighting!

And if chicken farmers (lest you forget this is what those 'poor baby
chicks' are being shipped for, and it isn't because they are cute, are so
concerned there is always FedEx.

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
Cheryl Perkins wrote:
Pat wrote:

Tweed I think you missed your calling, you ought to be a consultant
for the cockfighting industry!

Tweed didn't say a thing about cockfighting!

And if chicken farmers (lest you forget this is what those 'poor baby
chicks' are being shipped for, and it isn't because they are cute, are so
concerned there is always FedEx.

Jill



OK I was ****ed off in general and more specifically that Tweed was being
accused of not caring about birds. Also bored.

I did some research, and as is often the case, money is the main concern in
this mess. At least that is how I read it.

Day old baby chicks have been shipped by mail and by other means for
decades. Nobody makes any money if the chicks don't arrive at their
destination healthy.

Northwest Airlines has or had the contract for airmail for the US Postal
Service. For a lot of reasons. many that do not make sense, it costs a
fraction to use the Postal Service to send the chicks compared to what it
costs to send the same chicks on the same flight by other means.

Northwest wanted to keep its postal contract but it didn't want to fly the
chicks for the postal service. (Which happened to boost their profits)
This caused financial hardship for the poultry industry. In particular for
small and more remote farms who didn't have other means of getting chicks at
a reasonable price.

Requiring the carrier to handle the chicks was necessary to protect the
industry. (OK and maybe to make nice with Tyson's lobbyists)

To put a different light on it, last month Northwest was responsible for the
death of over 9.000 turkey chicks that were being shipped from Canada to
California.

The producer took the chicks from their hatchery in Canada to Detroit in a
climate controlled truck where they were supposed to be put on two planes.
Northwest put them all one one plane. They suffocated before they got to
San Francisco where they were to be picked up by another climate controlled
truck. They then left some of the replacement chicks on the runway in Las
Vegas where they died from extreme heat. The airline is facing charges.

It isn't a matter of it being cruel or unsafe to ship day old chicks. They
are as Tweed stated uniquely able to handle being shipped at that age. It
really is very little different from still being packed into their little
eggs and that is hardly cruel.

It is a matter of people being required to do their jobs and to do them
responsibly.

Again, it isn't in anyone's interest to be cruel the chicks. Shipping them
isn't cruel. Being careless in the handling of the shipment is.

Jo

Ok I think I understand now. But just to be su

1.) Since day-old baby chicks can survive up to 48 hours without food and
need to be kept at 104 F., it's OK to send them via US Mail, which takes up
to 10 days, as long as they are not exposed to temps under 104. Escpecially
when they are packed tightly, the ones in the center where it's warmest
might make it if the shipment is quick enough.

2.) Since one member of this NG raises chickens in the old fashioned way, no
one ought to be concerned about the practices of commercial chicken
operations and cockfighting in the USA.

Thanks to all who pointed out my stupidity. I ought to have realized prior
to posting the original message, that shipping these baby chicks regardless
how many die in the process is at least a step up from tossing them into the
trash upon hatching if they happen to be born male on a commercial egg farm.

Geez, what was I thinking!



"Pat" wrote in message
.. .
Every year, millions of day-old baby chicks are mailed via the U.S. Postal
Service by commercial hatcheries and cockfighting breeders. The chicks are
literally packed in boxes and sent through the mail, without food or
water, and with no concern for temperature extremes. This inhumane
practice results in the deaths of countless baby birds every year.

After receiving complaints from various animal protection groups, the U.S.
Postal Service adopted policy changes to help protect birds shipped in the
mail. The new regulations require that the shipment of all live animals be
coordinated through central offices to ensure their arrival and limit the
length of time the animals can be in transit via ground transportation.

In response to the new regulations adopted by the U.S. Postal Service,
Senator Charles Grassley has introduced S. 2395, which would remove the
Postal Service's authority to implement the new regulations and force it
to accommodate the baby bird and cockfighting industries. S. 2395 would
provide that the Postal Service require certain airlines to transport
birds, require those airlines to transport the birds through connecting
cities, not necessarily direct flights, and require those airlines to
transport birds in any temperature conditions between 0 and 100 degrees
Fahrenheit.

If passed, this bill will undoubtedly lead to unnecessary suffering for
millions of baby birds! Contact your Senators now and urge them to oppose
S. 2395!

http://tinyurl.com/fej76

"Pat" wrote in message
.. .
Ok I think I understand now. But just to be su

1.) Since day-old baby chicks can survive up to 48 hours without food and
need to be kept at 104 F., it's OK to send them via US Mail, which takes
up to 10 days, as long as they are not exposed to temps under 104.
Escpecially when they are packed tightly, the ones in the center where
it's warmest might make it if the shipment is quick enough.

2.) Since one member of this NG raises chickens in the old fashioned way,
no one ought to be concerned about the practices of commercial chicken
operations and cockfighting in the USA.

Thanks to all who pointed out my stupidity. I ought to have realized prior
to posting the original message, that shipping these baby chicks
regardless how many die in the process is at least a step up from tossing
them into the trash upon hatching if they happen to be born male on a
commercial egg farm.

Geez, what was I thinking!


I'm going out on a limb here as I'm already pretty ticked off at the world
in general and not much caring if a few of them are ticked off at me too.

Sure we post off topic stuff on this group all the time. And many threads
wander off topic, just like a nice afternoon or evening with friends.

However, it makes me very uncomfortable when anyone uses the group to try to
enlist support for various causes. I don't much like anyone trying to sell
me on their idea of religion or politics or ecology or what does or does not
constitute animal cruelty for that matter.

I do not like to be sold a bill of goods. Particularly when the facts are
in dispute by well meaning and caring people.

Accusing Tweed of supporting cockfighting was so far beyond anything
reasonable or decent was in my opinion disgusting.

Jo

"Jo Firey" wrote

Accusing Tweed of supporting cockfighting was so far beyond anything
reasonable or decent was in my opinion disgusting.

Please tell me exactly how I "accused" Tweed of anything?

She appeared to be defending the practices decried in the original post.
That was why I said what I did.

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 20:59:41 -0500, "Pat"
wrote:

Ok I think I understand now. But just to be su

Chicken farmers are not interested in buying dead chicks. It's hard
enough to make a living with chickens.

Bud
--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.