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#21
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
"Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is overwhelming. A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their cats back. What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who left them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If they couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO I agree for the most part. I wonder though if there are some that did so who may have lost their homes and didn't know what else to do, but are in a better situation and have learned a valuable lesson. I am aware of a few people that are distraught and wracked with guilt as they actually tried to get their cats back not long after they brought them there but they had mysteriously disappeared (i.e. were eaten by coyotes ______ Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming. Did any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really? Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and decaying cats that were alleged to be there. It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5 feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down the road _______ no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)? Do be careful about what you say. Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that coyotes would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are not any coyotes in the Ranch. |
#22
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Mar 22, 9:38*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is overwhelming. A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their cats back. What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who left them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If they couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO I agree for the most part. I wonder though if there are some that did so who may have lost their homes and didn't know what else to do, but are in a better situation and have learned a valuable lesson. I am aware of a few people that are distraught and wracked with guilt as they actually tried to get their cats back not long after they brought them there but they had mysteriously disappeared (i.e. were eaten by coyotes ______ Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming. Did any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really? Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and decaying cats that were alleged to be there. It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5 feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down the road _______ no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)? Do be careful about what you say. Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that coyotes would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are not any coyotes in the Ranch. You can't say that as there is no guarantee every coyote is going to search every inch of acres and acres of land for dead cats when there are plenty of live ones handy to kill and eat and the coyotes did indeed kill some of the cats. Just because there are dead bodies doesn't mean the coyotes are going to find all of them, especially those close to the main quarters. There were many acres of land and the cats roamed freely. The coyotes would easily stay on the outskirts of the property and have no need to come in to the main area. Craig himself knew there were coyotes and asked for donations for a coyote proof fence. That fence obviously never happened as this photo taken in September of 2011 at Caboodle Ranch illustrates: http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodl...mp/6861326532/ |
#23
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Mar 22, 8:54*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 7:09 pm, "Christina Websell" wrote: "jmcquown" wrote in message ... "Catlady" wrote in message ... http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is overwhelming. A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their cats back. What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who left them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If they couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO Also, a disposition hearing has been set for March 28th to determine who gets the cats. Craig and Nanette should not be allowed to be within 100 miles of any of these poor creatures (or any other cats, for that matter) that have suffered at their hands. I've read online newsclips and seen the same videos you have. I can't offer an opinion about their guilt or innocence. I'm not there; I've never been there. I do know media today tends to sensationalize. The more negative the better, it seems I wouldn't want to be sitting on a jury for this one, though. I'd have to see more than media hype to be able to render a decision. There has to be more than media hype here, otherwise, surely, the newspapers could be sued for libel. Tweed *"Catsunn" has been all over the internet posting lies in defense of Caboodle Ranch. These pictures taken on the scene by different visitors to Caboodle Ranch don't lie:http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodleranch_deathcamp/ It takes a lot of evidence for a prosecutor to take on a case such as this. Court cases like this cost a lot of money and they wouldn't move forward on this if they didn't believe they had a winnable case. This is not based on one PETA video. There are mountains of evidence spanning a long time and there is no denying the sick, the dying, and the dead cats- and that's just for starters. What can I say? *But Dan went there a year ago and he said it was good and I believe that. This is horrible if they are true photos from there. When I look at these, it really shocks me and makes me realise how lucky my boy is. *The worst thing he worries about is if his meal is 5 minutes late or whether or not to get on his duvet. *Or should he go out on rat patrol when he can't really be bothered. This cat was not so lucky: http://www.peta.org/features/caboodl...for-lilly.aspx I really feel for the investigator, regardless of my opinion of PETA. You can dislike the organization but this individual was doing the right thing and did everything she could to get this cat help. Stealing it would have compromised the entire investigation and would have insured that the hundreds of other cats continued to suffer for who knows how long. I don't envy her position one bit, but if not for these kind of people that are willing to film these abuses while having to stay silent (while they must be screaming inside) we would not have the evidence that has been used to shut down these houses of horror that exist all over the country. |
#24
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
"Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 9:38 pm, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ... On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote: "Catlady" wrote in message ______ Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming. Did any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really? Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and decaying cats that were alleged to be there. It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5 feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down the road _______ no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)? Do be careful about what you say. Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that coyotes would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are not any coyotes in the Ranch. --------- You can't say that as there is no guarantee every coyote is going to search every inch of acres and acres of land for dead cats when there are plenty of live ones handy to kill and eat and the coyotes did indeed kill some of the cats. Just because there are dead bodies doesn't mean the coyotes are going to find all of them, especially those close to the main quarters. There were many acres of land and the cats roamed freely. __________ No, I can't say that with authority, there is no guarantee that coyotes will search every acre for dead cats, but let's face it, a dead one is easier to cope with than a live one who might put up a fight. I'm not that familiar with coyotes, do they live alone, or do they usually go around in gangs? I know they are bigger than foxes and smaller than wolves. It is not unknown for our foxes to take cats, especially if they have cubs, but it's not very common. Tell that to someone I know a mile away who woke up a terribly screeching during the night to find his cat in the jaws of a fox. He rushed out and the fox dropped the cat and ran off. It was severely injured. Many "all my salary paid into the vet's bank account months later" the cat made a full recovery but it was touch and go. Breeding season. I'm sure if that fox had seen a dead cat it would have preferred that option. I keep Boyfie in at night if all possible, now he has lost his horror of closed doors. If he does not come to my special whistle at stupid-o-clock he has to sleep in the conservatory. If he stays out all night he has to be prepared to go up a tree if he sees a fox, and you should see him go up one. Ground to up high 2 seconds - and I know he can as I saw him do it after a squirrel. I have lots of trees. 50+ --------------- _ The coyotes would easily stay on the outskirts of the property and have no need to come in to the main area. Craig himself knew there were coyotes and asked for donations for a coyote proof fence. That fence obviously never happened as this photo taken in September of 2011 at Caboodle Ranch illustrates: http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodl..._deathcamp/686 1326532/ I think we can all agree that it is a tragedy. I do not wish to discuss it any more. I have appreciated our exchange of opinions with no rancour and also the links you have provided to help me with my opinion. Thank you. Tweed |
#25
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:21:11 PM UTC-4, Catlady wrote:
http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is overwhelming. A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their cats back. Also, a disposition hearing has been set for March 28th to determine who gets the cats. Craig and Nanette should not be allowed to be within 100 miles of any of these poor creatures (or any other cats, for that matter) that have suffered at their hands. .. . . so far i have seen nothing of legal proof of anything, however iwill keep searching . . . while remembering Kol Nidre and Palestine. Another thing is this: there was a "list" that i saw and a lot of the "volunteer" organizations seemed to have names relating to experimental-type facilities and veterinary schools that need bodies for training students. Then there was a statement I read where one hell of a lot of kitties “died” due to illness, and these where kitties that had been blessed with life-and-living-it and had to be CHASED to be caught and caged . . . Feral (wild) kitties, which are usually vicious with fear, are un-safe to be handled, infected with parasites etc. are not adoptable, nor desirable for handling in experimental labs, and are the first to hit the gas chambers .. . . A great percentage of the rounded-up kitties were in fact “feral” (wild). These wild kitties belong to no one but the land and God. They live an average life of about 18 months. Feral/wild kitties very often seem to be born that way, and they never change. Many kitties are now being bred with the little Asian leopard and with something of the same nature in Africa and China . . . Many throw-backs come from these breedings and cannot be tamed. They are beautiful, but thereis nothing you can do with them, but help them wherever you can to let them enjoy their little lives as much as possible, which is all Craig could do, and why many of those kitties wind up with him in the first place . . . Many of the posters here are extremely stupid as to the breeding that is going on, in the breeding world of cats, and I feel these posters should be euthanized, because theyarenot happy . . . No one that stupid can possibly be happy . . . So, of course, I guess, they would be better off dead and in the cold cold ground. Bible truths will set you free John 8:32 |
#26
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady
wrote: On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote: "Christina Websell" *wrote in message We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/ MaryL A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a safer option: http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed. So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a coyote. I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze birdbath. Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't reasonable. TNR is the humane solution. |
#27
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Apr 3, 8:17*am, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady wrote: On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote: "Christina Websell" *wrote in message We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/ MaryL A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a safer option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed. So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a coyote. I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze birdbath. Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't reasonable. TNR is the humane solution. I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda. I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their stance doesn't make sense. |
#28
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Catlady
wrote: On Apr 3, 8:17*am, dgk wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady wrote: On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote: "Christina Websell" *wrote in message We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/ MaryL A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a safer option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed. So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a coyote. I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze birdbath. Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't reasonable. TNR is the humane solution. I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda. I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their stance doesn't make sense. Their stance is to blame everything on cats. They don't have the guts to attack the true reason for the demise of birds, which is the same reason as the demise of virtually every other species. There are just too many people destroying too much of the habitat of other species. |
#29
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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats
"dgk" wrote in message ... On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Catlady wrote: On Apr 3, 8:17 am, dgk wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady wrote: On Mar 24, 7:51 pm, "MaryL" wrote: "Christina Websell" wrote in message We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded areas). They often attack and kill household pets. In rural areas, they will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. They are very agile and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/ MaryL A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a safer option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed. So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a coyote. I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze birdbath. Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't reasonable. TNR is the humane solution. I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda. I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their stance doesn't make sense. Their stance is to blame everything on cats. They don't have the guts to attack the true reason for the demise of birds, which is the same reason as the demise of virtually every other species. There are just too many people destroying too much of the habitat of other species. ain't that just the truth. |
#30
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Please...there is not overwhelming evidence and CAT LADY is one of the ones who started this whole mess. Many lies, distortions, out of context excerpts, etc are posted in here.....just wait for the trial and evidence to come out...
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