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Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 23rd 12, 03:38 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,983
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats


"Catlady" wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message

...
On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote:

"Catlady" wrote in message


...


http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease
From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is
overwhelming.
A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their
cats back.


What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who
left
them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If they
couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at
Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems
now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO


I agree for the most part. I wonder though if there are some that did
so who may have lost their homes and didn't know what else to do, but
are in a better situation and have learned a valuable lesson. I am
aware of a few people that are distraught and wracked with guilt as
they actually tried to get their cats back not long after they brought
them there but they had mysteriously disappeared (i.e. were eaten by
coyotes

______
Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming. Did
any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really?
Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if
they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and
decaying cats that were alleged to be there.


It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At
onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a
coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5
feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats
regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and
would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a
bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down
the road

_______
no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of
the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)?
Do be careful about what you say.
Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that coyotes
would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are
not any coyotes in the Ranch.













  #22  
Old March 23rd 12, 03:53 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
catlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Mar 22, 9:38*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message

...
On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell"





wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message


...
On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote:


"Catlady" wrote in message


...


http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease
From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is
overwhelming.
A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their
cats back.


What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who
left
them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If they
couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at
Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems
now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO


I agree for the most part. I wonder though if there are some that did
so who may have lost their homes and didn't know what else to do, but
are in a better situation and have learned a valuable lesson. I am
aware of a few people that are distraught and wracked with guilt as
they actually tried to get their cats back not long after they brought
them there but they had mysteriously disappeared (i.e. were eaten by
coyotes


______
Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming. Did
any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really?
Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if
they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and
decaying cats that were alleged to be there.


It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At
onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a
coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5
feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats
regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and
would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a
bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down
the road

_______
no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of
the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)?
Do be careful about what you say.
Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that coyotes
would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are
not any coyotes in the Ranch.


You can't say that as there is no guarantee every coyote is going to
search every inch of acres and acres of land for dead cats when there
are plenty of live ones handy to kill and eat and the coyotes did
indeed kill some of the cats. Just because there are dead bodies
doesn't mean the coyotes are going to find all of them, especially
those close to the main quarters. There were many acres of land and
the cats roamed freely. The coyotes would easily stay on the outskirts
of the property and have no need to come in to the main area. Craig
himself knew there were coyotes and asked for donations for a coyote
proof fence. That fence obviously never happened as this photo taken
in September of 2011 at Caboodle Ranch illustrates:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodl...mp/6861326532/
  #23  
Old March 23rd 12, 04:10 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
catlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Mar 22, 8:54*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message

...
On Mar 22, 7:09 pm, "Christina Websell"





wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in message


...


"Catlady" wrote in message
...
http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease
From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is
overwhelming.
A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their
cats back.


What? ... for people who want to get their cats back?! Um, people who
left them at the 'sanctuary' in the first place? That's ridiculous. If
they couldn't, for whatever reason, care for the cat(s) and left them at
Caboodle, what happens if the reclaimed cats have severe health problems
now? Don't give them back to people who dropped them off! IMHO


Also, a disposition hearing has been set for March 28th to determine
who gets the cats. Craig and Nanette should not be allowed to be
within 100 miles of any of these poor creatures (or any other cats,
for that matter) that have suffered at their hands.


I've read online newsclips and seen the same videos you have. I can't
offer an opinion about their guilt or innocence. I'm not there; I've
never been there. I do know media today tends to sensationalize. The
more negative the better, it seems I wouldn't want to be sitting on a
jury for this one, though. I'd have to see more than media hype to be
able to render a decision.


There has to be more than media hype here, otherwise, surely, the
newspapers
could be sued for libel.
Tweed


*"Catsunn" has been all over the internet posting lies in defense of
Caboodle Ranch. These pictures taken on the scene by different
visitors to Caboodle Ranch don't lie:http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodleranch_deathcamp/

It takes a lot of evidence for a prosecutor to take on a case such as
this. Court cases like this cost a lot of money and they wouldn't move
forward on this if they didn't believe they had a winnable case. This
is not based on one PETA video. There are mountains of evidence
spanning a long time and there is no denying the sick, the dying, and
the dead cats- and that's just for starters.

What can I say? *But Dan went there a year ago and he said it was good and I
believe that.
This is horrible if they are true photos from there.

When I look at these, it really shocks me and makes me realise how lucky my
boy is. *The worst thing he worries about is if his meal is 5 minutes late
or whether or not to get on his duvet. *Or should he go out on rat patrol
when he can't really be bothered.


This cat was not so lucky:
http://www.peta.org/features/caboodl...for-lilly.aspx
I really feel for the investigator, regardless of my opinion of PETA.
You can dislike the organization but this individual was doing the
right thing and did everything she could to get this cat help.
Stealing it would have compromised the entire investigation and would
have insured that the hundreds of other cats continued to suffer for
who knows how long. I don't envy her position one bit, but if not for
these kind of people that are willing to film these abuses while
having to stay silent (while they must be screaming inside) we would
not have the evidence that has been used to shut down these houses of
horror that exist all over the country.
  #24  
Old March 25th 12, 01:26 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,983
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats


"Catlady" wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 9:38 pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message

...
On Mar 22, 7:18 pm, "Christina Websell"





wrote:
"Catlady" wrote in message


...
On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "jmcquown" wrote:


"Catlady" wrote in message




______
Eaten by coyotes? I hope you are not getting carried away in blaming.
Did
any cat get eaten by coyotes there, really?
Surely not. I don't know a lot about coyotes, but I would think that if
they could have got in there, they would have cleared up the dead and
decaying cats that were alleged to be there.


It is well known that Caboodle Ranch has a problem with coyotes. At
onet ime, there was even a plea on their website for donations for a
coyote proof fence. Craig had a fence thatwas reportedly only abou 5
feet tall and coyotes and cat can scale such a fence easily.Cats
regularly got out of the fenced areas (and the coyotes got in) and
would go to neighboring houses. There is a photo that exists of a
bunch of cats from Caboodle Ranch outside of the compound walking down
the road

_______
no evidence of any coyotes in there then, eating the cats that members of
the public sent there (rightly or wrongly)?
Do be careful about what you say.
Even a fox would polish off a recently dead cat here so no way that
coyotes
would not do so, and if there are dead and decaying cats there, there are
not any coyotes in the Ranch.


---------

You can't say that as there is no guarantee every coyote is going to
search every inch of acres and acres of land for dead cats when there
are plenty of live ones handy to kill and eat and the coyotes did
indeed kill some of the cats. Just because there are dead bodies
doesn't mean the coyotes are going to find all of them, especially
those close to the main quarters. There were many acres of land and
the cats roamed freely.
__________

No, I can't say that with authority, there is no guarantee that coyotes
will search every acre for dead cats, but let's face it, a dead one is
easier to cope with than a live one who might put up a fight. I'm not that
familiar with coyotes, do they live alone, or do they usually go around in
gangs?
I know they are bigger than foxes and smaller than wolves.

It is not unknown for our foxes to take cats, especially if they have cubs,
but it's not very common. Tell that to someone I know a mile away who woke
up a terribly screeching during the night to find his cat in the jaws of a
fox. He rushed out and the fox dropped the cat and ran off.

It was severely injured. Many "all my salary paid into the vet's bank
account months later" the cat made a full recovery but it was touch and go.
Breeding season. I'm sure if that fox had seen a dead cat it would have
preferred that option.

I keep Boyfie in at night if all possible, now he has lost his horror of
closed doors. If he does not come to my special whistle at stupid-o-clock
he has to sleep in the conservatory. If he stays out all night he has to be
prepared to go up a tree if he sees a fox, and you should see him go up one.
Ground to up high 2 seconds - and I know he can as I saw him do it after a
squirrel.
I have lots of trees. 50+
---------------




_ The coyotes would easily stay on the outskirts
of the property and have no need to come in to the main area. Craig
himself knew there were coyotes and asked for donations for a coyote
proof fence. That fence obviously never happened as this photo taken
in September of 2011 at Caboodle Ranch illustrates:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/caboodl..._deathcamp/686

1326532/


I think we can all agree that it is a tragedy. I do not wish to discuss it
any more.
I have appreciated our exchange of opinions with no rancour and also the
links you have provided to help me with my opinion.
Thank you.
Tweed




  #25  
Old March 25th 12, 08:59 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
KittyLove
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:21:11 PM UTC-4, Catlady wrote:
http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease
From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is
overwhelming.
A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their
cats back.
Also, a disposition hearing has been set for March 28th to determine
who gets the cats. Craig and Nanette should not be allowed to be
within 100 miles of any of these poor creatures (or any other cats,
for that matter) that have suffered at their hands.





.. . . so far i have seen nothing of legal proof of anything, however iwill keep searching . . . while remembering Kol Nidre and Palestine.

Another thing is this: there was a "list" that i saw and a lot of the "volunteer" organizations seemed to have names relating to experimental-type facilities and veterinary schools that need bodies for training students.

Then there was a statement I read where one hell of a lot of kitties “died” due to illness, and these where kitties that had been blessed with life-and-living-it and had to be CHASED to be caught and caged . . .

Feral (wild) kitties, which are usually vicious with fear, are un-safe to be handled, infected with parasites etc. are not adoptable, nor desirable for handling in experimental labs, and are the first to hit the gas chambers .. . .

A great percentage of the rounded-up kitties were in fact “feral” (wild). These wild kitties belong to no one but the land and God. They live an average life of about 18 months. Feral/wild kitties very often seem to be born that way, and they never change.

Many kitties are now being bred with the little Asian leopard and with something of the same nature in Africa and China . . . Many throw-backs come from these breedings and cannot be tamed. They are beautiful, but thereis nothing you can do with them, but help them wherever you can to let them enjoy their little lives as much as possible, which is all Craig could do, and why many of those kitties wind up with him in the first place . . .

Many of the posters here are extremely stupid as to the breeding that is going on, in the breeding world of cats, and I feel these posters should be euthanized, because theyarenot happy . . . No one that stupid can possibly be happy . . . So, of course, I guess, they would be better off dead and in the cold cold ground.

Bible truths will set you free John 8:32
  #26  
Old April 3rd 12, 02:17 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
dgk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,268
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady
wrote:

On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote:
"Christina Websell" *wrote in message


We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded
areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they
will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile
and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/

MaryL


A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and
should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a
safer option: http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html


Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with
coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because
otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed.

So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of
dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should
kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a
coyote.

I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my
fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more
than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze
birdbath.

Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't
reasonable. TNR is the humane solution.
  #27  
Old April 4th 12, 03:45 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
catlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Apr 3, 8:17*am, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady

wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote:
"Christina Websell" *wrote in message


We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded
areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they
will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile
and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/


MaryL


A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and
should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a
safer option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html


Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with
coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because
otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed.

So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of
dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should
kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a
coyote.

I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my
fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more
than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze
birdbath.

Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't
reasonable. TNR is the humane solution.


I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut
and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first
couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your
assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda.
I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some
cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do
nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's
interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps
the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their
stance doesn't make sense.
  #28  
Old April 5th 12, 02:11 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
dgk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,268
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Catlady
wrote:

On Apr 3, 8:17*am, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady

wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:51*pm, "MaryL" wrote:
"Christina Websell" *wrote in message


We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially wooded
areas). *They often attack and kill household pets. *In rural areas, they
will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. *They are very agile
and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/


MaryL


A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and
should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a
safer option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html


Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with
coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because
otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed.

So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of
dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should
kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a
coyote.

I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my
fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more
than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze
birdbath.

Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't
reasonable. TNR is the humane solution.


I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut
and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first
couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your
assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda.
I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some
cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do
nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's
interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps
the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their
stance doesn't make sense.


Their stance is to blame everything on cats. They don't have the guts
to attack the true reason for the demise of birds, which is the same
reason as the demise of virtually every other species. There are just
too many people destroying too much of the habitat of other species.
  #29  
Old April 7th 12, 12:00 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
Christina Websell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,983
Default Update On Caboodle Ranch Cats


"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Catlady
wrote:

On Apr 3, 8:17 am, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Catlady

wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:51 pm, "MaryL" wrote:
"Christina Websell" wrote in message

We have numerous coyotes in this area, even in town (especially
wooded
areas). They often attack and kill household pets. In rural areas,
they
will kill small farm animals such as lambs and calves. They are very
agile
and speedy, so cats and dogs are often easy
prey.http://animals.nationalgeographic.co...ammals/coyote/

MaryL

A recent article that underlines the danger cats at CR faced and
should have people that allow their cats to roam freely considering a
safer
option:http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandrepor...es/120329.html

Ah yes, a bird group that is strongly against TNR comes up with
coyotes as a reason to stop doing TNR. Kill all the cats because
otherwise some may die from coyotes. Very good reasoning indeed.

So, here in NYC where TNR is becoming a city approved humane method of
dealing with the feral cats that are in every neighborhood, we should
kill them all instead because somewhere in Central Park there is a
coyote.

I feed (and have TNRd) the local street cats, and let my cats into my
fenced in backyard. Yes, sometimes they kill a bird, but that is more
than offset by my feeding birds all winter and providing a no-freeze
birdbath.

Sure it would be better if all cats had a home but that isn't
reasonable. TNR is the humane solution.


I don't agree with their stance on TNR either and didn't think to cut
and paste just the statistics. I don't have a problem with the first
couple of paragraphs, but I do think you are correct in your
assessment of how they use the statistics to promote their own agenda.
I am all for TNR and have done it as well. It does bother me that some
cats that are released will fall prey to coyotes, etc.,but if you do
nothing, there will be a lot more cats for coyotes to kill. It's
interesting that they want to skew TNR but that is exactly what keeps
the population down and results in less birds being killed. Their
stance doesn't make sense.


Their stance is to blame everything on cats. They don't have the guts
to attack the true reason for the demise of birds, which is the same
reason as the demise of virtually every other species. There are just
too many people destroying too much of the habitat of other species.


ain't that just the truth.



  #30  
Old May 9th 12, 02:59 PM
Catsunn Catsunn is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CatBanter: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
Default

Please...there is not overwhelming evidence and CAT LADY is one of the ones who started this whole mess. Many lies, distortions, out of context excerpts, etc are posted in here.....just wait for the trial and evidence to come out...





Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryL[_2_] View Post
"Catlady" wrote in message
...

http://www.ifaw.org/us/news/hundreds...battle-disease
From those in the know, the evidence against Caboodle Ranch is
overwhelming.
A hotline has been set up for people that want to try to get their
cats back.
Also, a disposition hearing has been set for March 28th to determine
who gets the cats. Craig and Nanette should not be allowed to be
within 100 miles of any of these poor creatures (or any other cats,
for that matter) that have suffered at their hands.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is so sad. I can't speak to the origins of Caboodle Ranch, but it is
clear that they became hoarders on a large scale. Most hoarders are people
who don't know their own limitations and take in far more cats (or other
animals) than they can possibly care for. They are usually people who love
cats, but their love becomes associated with a variety of mental illnesses.
Cats become ill, suffer severe malnutrition, and even die due to lack of
medical care, basic nutrition, and too few people to give them even minimal
attention. In the case of Caboodle Ranch, I suspect that this is not a
typical hoarding case--my suspicion is that money became very important to
the owners, and money that was donated may not even have gone to the care of
these unfortunate cats.

MaryL
 




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