Which food for a fat cat?

Phil P. wrote:
Fiber absorbs water in the colon. If the cat doesn't drink enough water the
fiber will become impacted in the colon. But that's way over your head.


An an asteroid will eventually destroy the earth. Both are "possible"
but neither are very "probable". Of the thousands upon thousands of
cats that have succesfully lost weight on dry r/d over the past 30
years, "impacted" colons isn't even on the list.

5cats wrote:


It's difficult to measure what he's eating because the other cats snack
freely out of his bowl. Hence the thinking about adding or switching to wet
food, as then they'd be more willing to eat in a few defined meals rather
than wanting to snack on dry all the time.

Then switch to RD canned. No need for SD Light to be the only other
choice.

-mhd

Phil P. wrote:


"5cats" wrote in message
.. .

That sounds interesting, as George (the plump one) has been on dry
R/D for a while now and hasn't lost much (if any) weight recently. He
quickly went down from 24 to 23, but has stabilised at 23.

That's a common problem with all these weight loss diets (other than
Purina DM and Hill's m/d). Cats compensate for the diluted calories
and either plateau or start gaining again..

I looked up the info on m/d on the Hill's site and I think I'm going to
ask the vet about trying it for George. I hadn't heard of it before, so
thanks for mentioning it.

Steve Crane wrote:
Phil P. wrote:
Fiber absorbs water in the colon. If the cat doesn't drink enough water the
fiber will become impacted in the colon. But that's way over your head.


An an asteroid will eventually destroy the earth. Both are "possible"
but neither are very "probable". Of the thousands upon thousands of
cats that have succesfully lost weight on dry r/d over the past 30
years, "impacted" colons isn't even on the list.

Could this be because the feline has a rather short colon? This is not
the case for humans, as I mentioned before, who have a long colon, 30
feet all told? In any case, drinking water was for preventing urinary
problems, I always thought with the feline.

5cats wrote:

Just ignore him? Have you ever had a 23 pound cat determined to wake you
for breakfast at 5 A.M.? If only it were that easy.


Even 18 lbs (2 of mine) can hit tender spots.

But fat cats don't die if you limit their access to food to only 30 min
twice a day. They manage to eat enough to look pretty good. In the
intervening times, they're quite affectionate. . And of course,
always have fresh water available, food or not.

Close the bedroom door.

The average vet will tell you that no cat that has had a urinary
problem should ever be given anything other than wet food, ever (for
the increased water content). But you can still limit it to twice a
day. Even (gasp) once a day, if twice fails.

SBH

"5cats" wrote in message
.. .
Phil P. wrote:


"5cats" wrote in message
.. .

That sounds interesting, as George (the plump one) has been on dry
R/D for a while now and hasn't lost much (if any) weight recently. He
quickly went down from 24 to 23, but has stabilised at 23.

That's a common problem with all these weight loss diets (other than
Purina DM and Hill's m/d). Cats compensate for the diluted calories
and either plateau or start gaining again..

I looked up the info on m/d on the Hill's site and I think I'm going to
ask the vet about trying it for George. I hadn't heard of it before, so
thanks for mentioning it.

At least m/d resembles a cat's natural diet (high protein/low carbohydrate)
more than any of the other weight loss diets (except Purina DM).

Just be patient!

Best of luck,

Phil

wrote in message
oups.com...

John Doe wrote:
risks of its own. Cats eating high-fiber diets *must* be *well*
hydrated to prevent the fiber from impacting in the colon which
can result in intractable constipation.

I've always heard that fiber does exactly the opposite of that.

Nope, you heard wrong. Look up almost human site that deals with fiber.
It's strongly, strongly recommended extra water be consumed to prevent
impaction in humans. Why? Without extra water, that fiber will be like
concrete.


Very good explanation.



This is true for both insoluble and soluble fiber.

In fact, just read the labels on the Metamucil in the store. It
definitely says to keep the water intake up.

It's not that simple. Too much fiber without water will give you and
impacted colon. Read the web sites and the medical literature. They
both say the same thing.


Correct.




Some people misconceive that liquids relieve constipation.

Without water, you can't get things bulked up and moving. The medical
sites are now stressing liquids, but specific liquids. LIKE WATER.
Other liquids, like coffee or cokes will actually dehydrate the water
out of the body and can be quite detrimental with the water loss.

So you're half right.


That's because he's a half-wit.


The wrong liquids will make constipation worse.
The right liquid, simple water, is crucial.

Right again. Water is also better than milk because milk doesn't contain
enough free water. OTOH, too much cow's milk gives many cats diarrhea-
which is just the effect you want in a constipated cat.


Methinks Phil is a troll giving bad medical advice.

Nope. You're just either not up to date or have not read much in the
medical area.

He doesn't do much reading in any area other than comic books. That's why
he's our village idiot.


Are you sure you are not the troll? I think you owe Phil
an apology since what you said is diametrically wrong.

I won't hold my breath waiting. His ego is too big and his character is too
small for him to apoligize.

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
ups.com...

Phil P. wrote:
Use a regular maintenance diet and reduce his caloric intake by 25% and
you
shouldn't have any problems

I have to disagree with this idea. Pet foods are set to distribute
required nutrients based on caloric intake. If the cat is to have an
intake of X Vitamin A per day at X weight, reducing the portions by 25%
also reduces all nutrients involved along with the reduction in
calories. Foods designed for weight loss compensate for nutrients by
insuring sufficent levels of all the various nutrients at a reduced
caloric intake.

Thank you, Steve. I'm familiar with Hill's marketing gimmicks.


Certainly it is true that most - but not all - pet foods contain
sufficient overages of all the vitamins etc, but using just and regular
maintenance food does not insure sufficient levels of all the various
nurients needed. It is best to use a dedicated weight loss diet for
weight loss.

First of all, many cats won't eat r/d, w/d or Science Diet Lite because the
increased fiber decreases palatability. It doesn't matter how perfectly
formulated a diet is if the cat won't eat it. Obviously, only cats that
would actually eat r/d were selected for the study.

Second, most "pet foods contain sufficient overages of all the vitamins
etc,"
to more than offset the reduction in caloric intake.

Third, the cat 'grows into' the weight loss diet as she loses weight. IOW,
an 23# cat fed a DER for 20# cat will have a DER of a 20# in a relatively
short time. This method also significantly reduces the number of times that
the portion must be reduced. This is also an excellent program for grossly
obese
cats that must lose weight in stages.

See the weight loss chart designed by Tony Buffington.

http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/w...loss_chart.pdf

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
oups.com...

Phil P. wrote:
Fiber absorbs water in the colon. If the cat doesn't drink enough water
the
fiber will become impacted in the colon. But that's way over your head.


An an asteroid will eventually destroy the earth. Both are "possible"
but neither are very "probable". Of the thousands upon thousands of
cats that have succesfully lost weight on dry r/d over the past 30
years, "impacted" colons isn't even on the list.

Of course it wasn't! I'm sure Hill's made that very clear *before* the study
even began.

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
oups.com...

Phil P. wrote:
The *only* weight loss program that has been *proven* to be effective
over
the long term is caloric reduction coupled portion control.

That is incorrect, Feline r/d has several published clinical trials
proving weight loss in both canned and dry forms. The use of high fiber
dry foods has a plethora of published clinical trials from various
companies and university studies.


Without portion control? I don't think so. A cat will not lose weight
without a reduction in caloric intake. Duh! If a 20 lb cat has a DER of
409 kcals, and you feed the cat 409 kcals of r/d, I don't care how much
Hill's pays for the study, the cat will *not* lose weight. The principal
behind r/d is that the cat can be fed *less* calories without feeling
hungry. No diet will work without portion control.

Here's a weight loss chart that was designed by Tony Buffington. The chart
indicates the caloric intake for various degrees of weight loss:

http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/w...loss_chart.pdf



I am not opposed
to feeding canned foods - personally I feed my cat about half canned
foods, but blind obesiance to the god of canned cat foods leaves us
open to other risks and unintended consequences.


Please enlighten me about the "other risks and unintended consequences" of
feeding canned food. Please make it good because I could really use a good
laugh. ;-)