Best canned food vs. worst

In article .com,
enlightened us with...

Dr. Hofve's comments border on the ridiculous.

Who's that?
You didn't quote to whom you were replying.

Along with that
protein comes phosphorus.

Why is that assumed?

In nature, wild cats eat plenty of protein and as far as I know do not have
this problem. Does the phosphorus come from the way commercial foods are
produced?
Would a raw (or organic, all natural, etc) diet eliminate this problem? Can
it be elimated from commercial foods? If so, why the hell isn't it? If not,
why not?

There is ZERO data that
supports the nonsensical claim that dry foods "cause" diabetes.

It's not the food's wetness or dryness. It's what's IN the food.

That is
merely conjecture and hypothesis and has yet to be proven in any way
shape or form.

In cats, no, it has not been proven (anyone have any data?). In humans,
excessive carb and sugar consumption DOES cause diabetes and aggravates
existing pre-diabetes conditions. Considering the fact that humans were meant
to be omnivores and cats were meant to be carnivores, it simply stands to
reason that their biochemistry is maladapted to excessive carb intake and
well-adapted to a high protein, high fat diet. I would love to see real
studies, though.

See, there is no data on the frequency of diabetes in cats who don't eat
commerical foods. In fact, as far as I know, there aren't even any studies on
wet vs dry food.
Just like any other study, it would have to be funded. And what commercial
pet food company would want to encourage people to NOT buy their product? No
one else has the time or funds for a large enough study. So, none are done.

--
--
~kaeli~
A lot of money is tainted - It taint yours and it taint mine.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

wrote in message
...
Steve Crane the Hils Pet Food Company Shill wrote:
snip lies and scaremongering

FYI:
For those reading Steve's attempt at bait and switch, just ignore him.

Oh gawd, here we go again!

In article ,
enlightened us with...
wrote in message
...
Steve Crane the Hils Pet Food Company Shill wrote:
snip lies and scaremongering

FYI:
For those reading Steve's attempt at bait and switch, just ignore him.

Oh gawd, here we go again!

*ahem*searchthearchives*ahem*


--
--
~kaeli~
Experience is something you don't get until just after you
need it.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

You would probably be able to order foods from the web - at a price,
though, if they don't have a distributor in Croatia.

Try looking at the ingredients, an easy rule of thumb I read is that there
should be no byproducts (meat, fish, chicken, etc) listed in the first 20
ingredients listed.

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

In article ,
enlightened us with...
Steve Crane the Hils Pet Food Company Shill wrote:
snip lies and scaremongering

FYI:
For those reading Steve's attempt at bait and switch, just ignore him.
He has been asked many times to post proof or cites that show phosphorus
is harmful to healthy cats

That seems to be the key phrase here.
I was looking around, and it seems it is only harmful to cats already IN
renal failure or old enough that their organs aren't in great shape. CRF cats
seem to be badly affected by it. But one would hope you'd know if you had a
cat with CRF!

Anyone care to refute that or point me to better info?


--
--
~kaeli~
Experience is something you don't get until just after you
need it.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article .com,
enlightened us with...
Removal of carbs means the
energy must come from somewhere else - either protein or fats. In most
cases it comes form much increased protein levels. Along with that
protein comes phosphorus. Adding increased phosphorus in the diet has
zero positive benefit and may have some very bad side effects.

Um, or not.

I found this interesting reading, though possibly a couple years out of date:
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

According to the chart (if its accurate), there is not all that much
difference in phosphorus levels between dry and wet food. The levels seem
more consistent with brand (premium vs regular).
I guess it *doesn't* have to do with the protein that much after all.

--
--
~kaeli~
Dijon vu - the same mustard as before.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

In article ,
enlightened us with...

I found this interesting reading, though possibly a couple years out of date:
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

I can read links. Honest.
Here's the new ones.
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm


--
--
~kaeli~
Dijon vu - the same mustard as before.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...
wrote in message
...
Steve Crane the Hils Pet Food Company Shill wrote:
snip lies and scaremongering

FYI:
For those reading Steve's attempt at bait and switch, just ignore him.

Oh gawd, here we go again!

*ahem*searchthearchives*ahem*



Really, man. I am not one of those "read the FAQ" people,
but an awful lot of time, effort, thought and emotion has gone into
the Cat Food Wars. The archives is the place. Err, Google, that
is.

In article ,
enlightened us with...
In article .com,
enlightened us with...

Dr. Hofve's comments border on the ridiculous.

Who's that?
You didn't quote to whom you were replying.

Along with that
protein comes phosphorus.

Why is that assumed?

In nature, wild cats eat plenty of protein and as far as I know do not have
this problem. Does the phosphorus come from the way commercial foods are
produced?

Let me clarify: EXCESS, that is, levels that are harmful, phosphorus.

But after a little research, I question the very presumption that dry and wet
foods are all that different in phosphorus levels to begin with.

--
--
~kaeli~
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli wrote:
In article .com,
enlightened us with...

Why is that assumed?

In nature, wild cats eat plenty of protein and as far as I know do
not have
this problem. Does the phosphorus come from the way commercial foods
are
produced?
Would a raw (or organic, all natural, etc) diet eliminate this
problem? Can
it be elimated from commercial foods? If so, why the hell isn't it?
If not,
why not?

Hi Kaeli,
Just because a food is low in carbs does not mean it's necessarily high
in phosphorous. In a feline diet, all levels should be balanced, not
just phosphorous. I note that Steve Crane is always pushing the
phosphorous angle. While important, I believe all nutrient levels are
important. You can have a good food that isn't loaded with corn gluten
meal and still be within range on phosphorous.

I feed my cats a homemade balanced raw diet that does not include carbs
usually found in foods such as Hill's and Eukanuba for example. The
diet is well within range on all nutrient levels. I think Steve likes
to use the fear factor regarding carbs. I have yet to see a cat
willingly eat corn gluten (unless it has butter on it of course

Lauren