[OT] Just needed to vent - UPDATE 20/11

Yowie,

I know that you think you are reallly doing the best for Daniel but in
reality you might not be.

I would recommend (Having been on the other side of addiction myself)
that he go into a long term residential program.

He has 2 very real problems

1- His friends
2- Psychotic Behavior

The first is the real reason for the later. You see so long as he has
the friends that he does he will continue to use drugs. One of the
biggest hurdles a person in recovery has to overcome are his friends.
His friends will remind him of all the good times he had with them and
all the fun stuff they did together, without rembering the nasty stuff
and the behavior that ruined the last place he was staying.

The behavior is to say frightening, especially around you while you
are pregnant. I think that it would be best for all involved if he
moved out ASAP and into a formalised drug program such as Salvation
Army's ARC program. You could also ask your minister as there are
several treatment centers there including Teen Challenge (FYI not
necessarily for teenagers)

Helping him out is one thing giving him a place to regroup is another
but the BIG issue is once everything is done will he remain okay? Or
will he oneday come home drunk and hurt you or Joel or the baby.

I know from where I speak as I am in recovery and am celereating 12
Years Clean and Drug Free

~jag

I hope this was in response to Yowie's first message in this thread, and
not to the update where she told about the rules she and Joel had made.
Yes, Daniel needs to go into such a program, but Yowie and Joel can't
make him do this, as I'm sure you know.

--
Joy

"You can never do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it
will be too late." _Ralph Waldo Emerson


"JA Gory" wrote in message
...
Yowie,

I know that you think you are reallly doing the best for Daniel but in
reality you might not be.

I would recommend (Having been on the other side of addiction myself)
that he go into a long term residential program.

He has 2 very real problems

1- His friends
2- Psychotic Behavior

The first is the real reason for the later. You see so long as he has
the friends that he does he will continue to use drugs. One of the
biggest hurdles a person in recovery has to overcome are his friends.
His friends will remind him of all the good times he had with them and
all the fun stuff they did together, without rembering the nasty stuff
and the behavior that ruined the last place he was staying.

The behavior is to say frightening, especially around you while you
are pregnant. I think that it would be best for all involved if he
moved out ASAP and into a formalised drug program such as Salvation
Army's ARC program. You could also ask your minister as there are
several treatment centers there including Teen Challenge (FYI not
necessarily for teenagers)

Helping him out is one thing giving him a place to regroup is another
but the BIG issue is once everything is done will he remain okay? Or
will he oneday come home drunk and hurt you or Joel or the baby.

I know from where I speak as I am in recovery and am celereating 12
Years Clean and Drug Free

~jag

I rang around and found one whole place that was willing to take him *until*
I mentioned the schizophrenia.

As soon as I mentioned that, they refused to take him. The waiting list for
a half-way house for those with mental disorders is currently 5 years. He's
on the list, but that doens't help at the moment. He won't be able to get
into a drug recovery program until he admits to himself he even *has* a
problem and wants to stop it (no signs of that happening - he firmly
believes 6 cones a day is not "heavy usage" and all they do is "help him
relax")

Unless he willingly takes up his father's offer stay with him (he's in
another state, and mind you he's an alcoholic himself) or he can find a
"mate" (who no doubt indulges in illicit chemicals anyway) this is Daniel's
last stop.

Daniel wasn't home by 10:30pm last night, when I went to bed. He did say he
was going to be late, about 9 or 10pm, which was fine, and half an hour late
I"m prepared to forgive. But somehow I think he came home *really* late.
Unles Joel can vouch for him, (i go to sleep *very* quickly after i"ve gone
to bed) it means the next time we see him (he was gone before I got up this
morning) we get to do the eviction. Not something I'm looking forward to.

I really wish he hadn't gone and done that - for the last 2 days he's been
"clean" and has been a pleasure to have around. We started to think things
were going to work out.

And yes, Jag is dead on about friends. I don't think Dan has *any* friends
that are teetotallers. Now I know there are lot sof people out there than
can indulge in the occasional "recreation usage" and be fine. Even I have
friends who do so, and while I haven't for years now, I can't claim
innocence there either. But Dan is not one of those people that can casually
indulge every so often, and if he's with his "mates" i can't imagine him
saying "no" to the bong or the beer as its being passed around. I also can't
imagine his friends being very supportive of either his decision to go clean
nor of the fact that he has a serious mental disorder. Half of me suspects
that at least some of his so called "mates" feed him this **** just to watch
him "lose it" because its "funny"

sigh

This is the second person in my life I've cared about who I've watched ruin
themselves because of addictions. The first one was my ex.

At this point I'm left wondering "Why" people do it to themselves and the
people that they (allegedly) care for.

Yowie

"Yoj" wrote in message
...
I hope this was in response to Yowie's first message in this thread, and
not to the update where she told about the rules she and Joel had made.
Yes, Daniel needs to go into such a program, but Yowie and Joel can't
make him do this, as I'm sure you know.

--
Joy

"You can never do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it
will be too late." _Ralph Waldo Emerson


"JA Gory" wrote in message
...
Yowie,

I know that you think you are reallly doing the best for Daniel but in
reality you might not be.

I would recommend (Having been on the other side of addiction myself)
that he go into a long term residential program.

He has 2 very real problems

1- His friends
2- Psychotic Behavior

The first is the real reason for the later. You see so long as he has
the friends that he does he will continue to use drugs. One of the
biggest hurdles a person in recovery has to overcome are his friends.
His friends will remind him of all the good times he had with them and
all the fun stuff they did together, without rembering the nasty stuff
and the behavior that ruined the last place he was staying.

The behavior is to say frightening, especially around you while you
are pregnant. I think that it would be best for all involved if he
moved out ASAP and into a formalised drug program such as Salvation
Army's ARC program. You could also ask your minister as there are
several treatment centers there including Teen Challenge (FYI not
necessarily for teenagers)

Helping him out is one thing giving him a place to regroup is another
but the BIG issue is once everything is done will he remain okay? Or
will he oneday come home drunk and hurt you or Joel or the baby.

I know from where I speak as I am in recovery and am celereating 12
Years Clean and Drug Free

~jag

Yowie wrote:

I rang around and found one whole place that was willing to take him
*until* I mentioned the schizophrenia. As soon as I mentioned that,
they refused to take him. The waiting list for a half-way house for
those with mental disorders is currently 5 years.

Ah, "dual diagnosis". Meaning, he has a psychiatric diagnosis (the
schizophrenia) plus a substance abuse problem. Most halfway houses (here
in the States, anyway, and it sounds like a similar situation where you
are as well) deal with either one or the other, but not both. Places have
trained personnel who understand specific types of problems, and they're
not necessarily trained to deal with other issues. Plus the house rules
are probably different for each type of issue. It's a real problem for
people who have both alcohol/drug dependency plus an underlying mental
illness. It's not that uncommon - a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill people
use drugs and/or alcohol to self-medicate, and then they get addicted.
You'd think halfway houses for people who need both kinds of care would
be more common.

Good luck...

Joyce

wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote:

I rang around and found one whole place that was willing to take
him
*until* I mentioned the schizophrenia. As soon as I mentioned
that,
they refused to take him. The waiting list for a half-way house
for
those with mental disorders is currently 5 years.

Ah, "dual diagnosis". Meaning, he has a psychiatric diagnosis (the
schizophrenia) plus a substance abuse problem. Most halfway houses
(here
in the States, anyway, and it sounds like a similar situation where
you
are as well) deal with either one or the other, but not both. Places
have
trained personnel who understand specific types of problems, and
they're
not necessarily trained to deal with other issues. Plus the house
rules
are probably different for each type of issue. It's a real problem
for
people who have both alcohol/drug dependency plus an underlying
mental
illness. It's not that uncommon - a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill
people
use drugs and/or alcohol to self-medicate, and then they get
addicted.
You'd think halfway houses for people who need both kinds of care
would
be more common.

Good luck...

Joyce

My experience with my brother is that it's no good trying to sort the
alcohol/drug abuse before you address the mental health/schizophrenia
problem. We went down that route many times and it ended in failure
every time. My brother was diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic and
while the alcohol helped him cope it also lowered his inhibitions - a
dangerous mix ! When the schizophrenia was finally addressed he was
put on depot injections (slow release ) of medication once a fortnight
and if he missed an appointment for his injection the police had the
power to arrest him. On 22nd September 1999 my brother didn't turn up
for his injection, the police went to his flat and found him dead, he
was only 39. The cause of death was Septicaemia from a peri-nephritic
pancreatic abscess caused by years of alcohol abuse and damage to his
system from the heavy duty medications he ended up on.

My brother died alone because his behaviour and illness had made it
impossible for him to be with his family or friends (not that he had
many left), he was estranged from his sons and their mother.....a very
sad ending.

Yowie, please show this to Dan in the hope that it may help him make
changes in his life. My brother started having problems when he was 18
but didn't get the right help until he was 34 and by then the damage
(to his body and relationships) had been done.
--
Shirley
see my cats at
http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2
http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3

Daniel wasn't home by 10:30pm last night, when I went to bed. He did say he
was going to be late, about 9 or 10pm, which was fine, and half an hour late
I"m prepared to forgive. But somehow I think he came home *really* late.
Unles Joel can vouch for him, (i go to sleep *very* quickly after i"ve gone
to bed) it means the next time we see him (he was gone before I got up this
morning) we get to do the eviction. Not something I'm looking forward to.

I really wish he hadn't gone and done that - for the last 2 days he's been
"clean" and has been a pleasure to have around. We started to think things
were going to work out.

Bummer. But

1. Do not blame yourself.

2. You have been more than reasonable with Daniel

3. You *must* put your child first. Indeed, place this to number 1 on the list.

4. You *must* stick to your guns over the rules, even though it hurts, because
if you don't the rules will continue to be broken with more & more frequency
and more & more severity. I've seen it happen and it's not good for all
concerned.

5. Don't blame yourself - keep repeating that and get Joel to keep repeating it
too

6. Daniel is an adult - and part of being an adult is learning about the
consequences of your actions on others - even if you are ill and/or have a
substance abuse problem. he has no right to make you, Joel & your unborn child
suffer.

7. Hang in there in terms of you, Joel & your baby. You can come out of this
stronger as long as you & Joel don't allow Daniel to spoil it

8. Remember it isn't easy, it isn't fun - but you have a right to peace &
security in your own home.

*hugs* helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
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On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:31:31 +1100, "Yowie"
wrote:

Snipped


Daniel wasn't home by 10:30pm last night, when I went to bed. He did say he
was going to be late, about 9 or 10pm, which was fine, and half an hour late
I"m prepared to forgive. But somehow I think he came home *really* late.
Unles Joel can vouch for him, (i go to sleep *very* quickly after i"ve gone
to bed) it means the next time we see him (he was gone before I got up this
morning) we get to do the eviction. Not something I'm looking forward to.

Stick to your guns, Vickie, unless he has a darn good excuse for being
late. Sooner or later he's going to have to take responsibility for
his actions.

I know it's awfully easy for those of us who do not have to deal with
Daniel to give advice, but you have the little Yowie to think of and
you DON'T need this kind of stress.

Nan

"Shirley" wrote

My experience with my brother is that it's no good trying to sort the
alcohol/drug abuse before you address the mental health/schizophrenia
problem. We went down that route many times and it ended in failure
every time.

I was sorry to read your story, Shirley, and so sorry this had to happen to
someone close to you. Purrs for everyone who was affected by your brother's
life.

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi

Congratulations, John! I'm so very happy for you.
Best wishes,
--
Polonca & Soncek

"JA Gory" wrote in message
...
snip I know from where I speak as I am in recovery and am celereating 12
Years Clean and Drug Free

~jag

Oh, Shirley, I'm so very sorry to hear about your brother. He was so young!
Hugs,
--
Polonca & Soncek

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
My experience with my brother is that it's no good trying to sort the
alcohol/drug abuse before you address the mental health/schizophrenia
problem. We went down that route many times and it ended in failure
every time. My brother was diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic and
while the alcohol helped him cope it also lowered his inhibitions - a
dangerous mix ! When the schizophrenia was finally addressed he was
put on depot injections (slow release ) of medication once a fortnight
and if he missed an appointment for his injection the police had the
power to arrest him. On 22nd September 1999 my brother didn't turn up
for his injection, the police went to his flat and found him dead, he
was only 39. The cause of death was Septicaemia from a peri-nephritic
pancreatic abscess caused by years of alcohol abuse and damage to his
system from the heavy duty medications he ended up on.

My brother died alone because his behaviour and illness had made it
impossible for him to be with his family or friends (not that he had
many left), he was estranged from his sons and their mother.....a very
sad ending.

Yowie, please show this to Dan in the hope that it may help him make
changes in his life. My brother started having problems when he was 18
but didn't get the right help until he was 34 and by then the damage
(to his body and relationships) had been done.
--
Shirley
see my cats at
http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2
http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3