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#12
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"stlibf" wrote in message om... My cat is 9 months old. Hes not neutered yet because Im dragging my feet deciding if he should be laser declawed or traditionally declawed, and Im going to have him neutered at the same time as declawed. I had my cat declawed and spayed at the same time. With your callous attitude, I think you probably wouldn't even feel like a Nazi if you did this to your cat. I did. My cat turned into a biter, stopped covering her poop in the litter box after age seven (mutilated feet tend to be arthritic in old age, who knew?) and her beautiful little feet looked like dust mops. Deformed and sickening. Having made the mistake of mutilating her, I at least did right by her and kept her all 20 years of her life, never letting her outside. You will do whatever you want, I did. My experience left me never wanting to do it to another cat, ever, and I have had three cats since that I *trained* instead of resorting to hacking off their toes. You can train them! It's just amazing. But you won't want to consider that. It would take more effort on your part than dumping your helpless, trusting cat off at the vet and writing a check. Moron. |
#13
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"stlibf" wrote in message om... My cat is 9 months old. Hes not neutered yet because Im dragging my feet deciding if he should be laser declawed or traditionally declawed, and Im going to have him neutered at the same time as declawed. I had my cat declawed and spayed at the same time. With your callous attitude, I think you probably wouldn't even feel like a Nazi if you did this to your cat. I did. My cat turned into a biter, stopped covering her poop in the litter box after age seven (mutilated feet tend to be arthritic in old age, who knew?) and her beautiful little feet looked like dust mops. Deformed and sickening. Having made the mistake of mutilating her, I at least did right by her and kept her all 20 years of her life, never letting her outside. You will do whatever you want, I did. My experience left me never wanting to do it to another cat, ever, and I have had three cats since that I *trained* instead of resorting to hacking off their toes. You can train them! It's just amazing. But you won't want to consider that. It would take more effort on your part than dumping your helpless, trusting cat off at the vet and writing a check. Moron. |
#14
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KellyH wrote in news7FNb.77210$na.42779@attbi_s04 on 15 Jan 2004:
Sorry bud, but you came to the wrong place if you dont want to get lectured! Either way, traditional surgery or laser, you are having your cat's toes amputated. Get him a nice, sturdy scratching post. Yes, he likes to scratch, all cats do. Heh. My suggestion would be to get him a better home. Go ahead and get him neutered before he starts spraying. -- Cheryl I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine. And he shall be my Squishy. Come here Squishy. Ow. Bad Squishy. - Dori |
#15
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KellyH wrote in news7FNb.77210$na.42779@attbi_s04 on 15 Jan 2004:
Sorry bud, but you came to the wrong place if you dont want to get lectured! Either way, traditional surgery or laser, you are having your cat's toes amputated. Get him a nice, sturdy scratching post. Yes, he likes to scratch, all cats do. Heh. My suggestion would be to get him a better home. Go ahead and get him neutered before he starts spraying. -- Cheryl I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine. And he shall be my Squishy. Come here Squishy. Ow. Bad Squishy. - Dori |
#16
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Unfortunately, the zealots of the pro-declaw will ignore anything they believe
to delay their cause. Most, not all, people are anti-declaw..I'm against declaw - unless it's the last option between surrending the cat or keeping the cat in the home. I also anti-4 paw declaw. You might want to do a google search on laser declaw for additional info. |
#17
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Unfortunately, the zealots of the pro-declaw will ignore anything they believe
to delay their cause. Most, not all, people are anti-declaw..I'm against declaw - unless it's the last option between surrending the cat or keeping the cat in the home. I also anti-4 paw declaw. You might want to do a google search on laser declaw for additional info. |
#18
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essentially rip out the last tip of the bone or something, correct?
[..] Again please, NOT on declaw vs. don't declaw, because my cat is [..] to scratch, and is getting declawed, period. Thanks and have a great day! You asked not for a declawing opinion, but you're going to get it anyway (as it looks like you have already). For someone who basically knows what declawing involves, saying that declawing is not an option and "have a great day" do not seem to follow. Isn't "ripping out the tips of bones" something more appropriate for a Central American death squads or something? I can assure you (not from personal experience, but I trust the opinion of vets who have witnessed the procedure) that it will not be a great day for the cat.. It will be a painful day, and a painful week, and maybe a painful month, or however long it takes a cat to "recuperate" from (if the cat were human) torture. I would strongly urge you to read the book The Cat Who Cried for Help, by Nicholas H. Dodman, ( who is BVMS, MRCVS - Bantam Books, 1997), specifically the chapter "The Rebel Without Claws". He is strongly against declawing, and considers it inhumane (as the equivalent procedure performed on a human is - note that if this were proposed for a medical experiement, it would never get past the first Internal Review Board) He is also strongly in favor of the *approrpiate* use of psychotropic medications - antidepressants and in some cases tranquilizers - to control very extreme forms of behavior, if normal forms of behavior control (scratching posts, training) do not work. My family has had 3 cats. All of them were trained to use scratching posts, and used them (although they are indoor/outdoor cats) None have major scratching problems that we have not been able to stop by a loud "NO!" (or just a sharp look - they know what not to do). Scratching is a normal behavioral response, as well as very probably having a psycho-neurological effect similar to that of a human stretching. If trained correctly, a cat will use a scratching post for claw maintainance, and will "strech" appropriately (ie not on furnature or the sofa). To deprive a cat of this, as well as its natural means of defense if it ever escapes, or must be given to future owners, IS cruel. A human doctor's oath begins "First, do no harm". Apparently not all verterinatians hold to the same creed. Dodman write in his book (when talking about a verterinarian who advocates declawing over behavior-modification therapy, including medication): "Dr. Wilson has just informed us about how little she employs drug treatments to assist in the management of behavior problems. I don't know why anyone would want to make such a claim because drugs, when used correctly, *relieve* pain and suffering and can expedite recovery. At the verterinary schools in California and Pennsylvania, and at our own verterinary school, pharmacologic supportive therapy is used in thirty to sevety percent of behavior cases now, and to good effect. Cat cases would be included in the upper end of this percentage range because the problems they present are less amenable to behavior modification than those of dogs. Purposely avoiding the use of drugs, *especially when dealing with cat problems*, seems more of an ommision than a recommendable strategy and I don't see any sense in it. Painful surgical solutions to behavioral prohblems, however, are a different matter and should not be undertaken lightly, if at all. (142, hardbound edition, emphasis added) Excessive scratching can be likened to human obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), which in the large majority of (human) cases, responds very well to medication (SSRIs or other antidepressants, anti-anxiety medications, or others). If I may cautiously speculate, is seems reasonable to assume that some (if not most) cases of such "pathological" pet problems are (partly or mostly) operationally identical to analogous human disorders, and furthermore that their root biochemical causes are also similar. This bolsters the argument for the appropriateness of pharmocological therapy in conjunction with more traditional behavior modification programs. Dodman's book was written in 1997. In the six years sense them, a great deal of research has been performed on the biochemical bases of human psycho-neurological disorders such as OCD, and to a lesser extent, new drug therapies have been developed. It is reasonable to assume that there is information relating this to the management of behavior problems in the verterinary field. Jim Witte |
#19
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essentially rip out the last tip of the bone or something, correct?
[..] Again please, NOT on declaw vs. don't declaw, because my cat is [..] to scratch, and is getting declawed, period. Thanks and have a great day! You asked not for a declawing opinion, but you're going to get it anyway (as it looks like you have already). For someone who basically knows what declawing involves, saying that declawing is not an option and "have a great day" do not seem to follow. Isn't "ripping out the tips of bones" something more appropriate for a Central American death squads or something? I can assure you (not from personal experience, but I trust the opinion of vets who have witnessed the procedure) that it will not be a great day for the cat.. It will be a painful day, and a painful week, and maybe a painful month, or however long it takes a cat to "recuperate" from (if the cat were human) torture. I would strongly urge you to read the book The Cat Who Cried for Help, by Nicholas H. Dodman, ( who is BVMS, MRCVS - Bantam Books, 1997), specifically the chapter "The Rebel Without Claws". He is strongly against declawing, and considers it inhumane (as the equivalent procedure performed on a human is - note that if this were proposed for a medical experiement, it would never get past the first Internal Review Board) He is also strongly in favor of the *approrpiate* use of psychotropic medications - antidepressants and in some cases tranquilizers - to control very extreme forms of behavior, if normal forms of behavior control (scratching posts, training) do not work. My family has had 3 cats. All of them were trained to use scratching posts, and used them (although they are indoor/outdoor cats) None have major scratching problems that we have not been able to stop by a loud "NO!" (or just a sharp look - they know what not to do). Scratching is a normal behavioral response, as well as very probably having a psycho-neurological effect similar to that of a human stretching. If trained correctly, a cat will use a scratching post for claw maintainance, and will "strech" appropriately (ie not on furnature or the sofa). To deprive a cat of this, as well as its natural means of defense if it ever escapes, or must be given to future owners, IS cruel. A human doctor's oath begins "First, do no harm". Apparently not all verterinatians hold to the same creed. Dodman write in his book (when talking about a verterinarian who advocates declawing over behavior-modification therapy, including medication): "Dr. Wilson has just informed us about how little she employs drug treatments to assist in the management of behavior problems. I don't know why anyone would want to make such a claim because drugs, when used correctly, *relieve* pain and suffering and can expedite recovery. At the verterinary schools in California and Pennsylvania, and at our own verterinary school, pharmacologic supportive therapy is used in thirty to sevety percent of behavior cases now, and to good effect. Cat cases would be included in the upper end of this percentage range because the problems they present are less amenable to behavior modification than those of dogs. Purposely avoiding the use of drugs, *especially when dealing with cat problems*, seems more of an ommision than a recommendable strategy and I don't see any sense in it. Painful surgical solutions to behavioral prohblems, however, are a different matter and should not be undertaken lightly, if at all. (142, hardbound edition, emphasis added) Excessive scratching can be likened to human obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), which in the large majority of (human) cases, responds very well to medication (SSRIs or other antidepressants, anti-anxiety medications, or others). If I may cautiously speculate, is seems reasonable to assume that some (if not most) cases of such "pathological" pet problems are (partly or mostly) operationally identical to analogous human disorders, and furthermore that their root biochemical causes are also similar. This bolsters the argument for the appropriateness of pharmocological therapy in conjunction with more traditional behavior modification programs. Dodman's book was written in 1997. In the six years sense them, a great deal of research has been performed on the biochemical bases of human psycho-neurological disorders such as OCD, and to a lesser extent, new drug therapies have been developed. It is reasonable to assume that there is information relating this to the management of behavior problems in the verterinary field. Jim Witte |
#20
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