Chartreux information needed.

Jimmy Lee" wrote

The way I see it, there are two cats in the world. One is at the pound, the
other is at the breeder's cattery. BOTH are in this world and I get to
choose. This time I want one whose breeding was well selected, and one who
was with its mommy and well-socialized. While I realize that there are no
guarantees, I at least know the cat's history, breeding stock, and rearing
techniques. That, Mary, is important to me this time around.

Unfortunately anyone who posts on this ng anything about purebred cats meets
with a lecture on why they should be adopting a shelter cat. There are probably
more welcoming places to post your questions about various breeds.

I have only seen a few Chartreux at cat shows, so I can't really comment. In
personality they seem somewhat similar to the British shorthair, a generally
easy-going, serene cat. My advice would be to talk to Chartreux breeders, and
if you have any major cat shows in your area, go see if there are any Chartreux
breeders there. It's always a good idea to talk to the breeders and get to know
them and their cats before making a decision.

"Mary" wrote in message om...
(...)

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes" in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are sadly
mistaken. It is my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always having
tumors removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Well, some breeds have inherent problems (e.g., flat-faced cats,
Sphynxes, Manxes) but many do not. Choosing a good breeder should
minimise the risk of buying a genetic ****up.

(...)

I have an adult cat from a no-kill shelter who was socialized from
feral to totally loving in four months after being found a 6-month-old
pregnant stray. Her toilet habits are impeccable.

I have a moggie I adopted as an adult from a shelter. He uses his
litterbox 100% of the time, though I did need to train him slightly.
He scratches appropriately usually, though not always. He will barely
tolerate being picked up; it has taken me one year or so to get him to
the stage where I can pick him up and hold his paws. Even this he will
only tolerate maybe 70% of the time. He has a relatively delicate
stomach, perhaps by virtue of his time as a stray.

I also have a purebred Aby. He uses the litterbox 100% of the time,
and has only scratched in appropriate places. He will tolerate
basically any handling at all - I can pick him up, flip him onto his
back, and blow raspberries on his stomach and he'll not try to kill
me. He has never bit or scratched my appendages - well, unless you
count when he misses a grab for his furry mouse.

You might get the latter characteristics in a shelter cat, especially
if you obtained a kitten and socialised it well. Or, you might not.
Now, I don't begrudge my moggie his cantankerousness, but I'm still
very glad to have one cat who is completely tractable - an advantage
of a purebred from a good breeder.

(...)

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

So, the people who do not neuter their animals and then let them roam
are not the major problem then?

The person who gives up the cat because it no longer matches their
decor - they are not the problem?

How about working out the ratio of purebred cats to the shelter
population?


Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an
alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads

Yes, it's right next to:
alt.my.brain.was.replaced.by.cheese.and.I.missed.t he.clue.bus.
Subscribe! You'd be right at home there.

Oh yeah - unnatural: The chartreux is a naturally occuring breed,
AFAIK, and one which does not suffer from any particular health
issues.

Steve.

"Mary" wrote in message om...
(...)

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes" in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are sadly
mistaken. It is my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always having
tumors removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Well, some breeds have inherent problems (e.g., flat-faced cats,
Sphynxes, Manxes) but many do not. Choosing a good breeder should
minimise the risk of buying a genetic ****up.

(...)

I have an adult cat from a no-kill shelter who was socialized from
feral to totally loving in four months after being found a 6-month-old
pregnant stray. Her toilet habits are impeccable.

I have a moggie I adopted as an adult from a shelter. He uses his
litterbox 100% of the time, though I did need to train him slightly.
He scratches appropriately usually, though not always. He will barely
tolerate being picked up; it has taken me one year or so to get him to
the stage where I can pick him up and hold his paws. Even this he will
only tolerate maybe 70% of the time. He has a relatively delicate
stomach, perhaps by virtue of his time as a stray.

I also have a purebred Aby. He uses the litterbox 100% of the time,
and has only scratched in appropriate places. He will tolerate
basically any handling at all - I can pick him up, flip him onto his
back, and blow raspberries on his stomach and he'll not try to kill
me. He has never bit or scratched my appendages - well, unless you
count when he misses a grab for his furry mouse.

You might get the latter characteristics in a shelter cat, especially
if you obtained a kitten and socialised it well. Or, you might not.
Now, I don't begrudge my moggie his cantankerousness, but I'm still
very glad to have one cat who is completely tractable - an advantage
of a purebred from a good breeder.

(...)

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

So, the people who do not neuter their animals and then let them roam
are not the major problem then?

The person who gives up the cat because it no longer matches their
decor - they are not the problem?

How about working out the ratio of purebred cats to the shelter
population?


Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an
alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads

Yes, it's right next to:
alt.my.brain.was.replaced.by.cheese.and.I.missed.t he.clue.bus.
Subscribe! You'd be right at home there.

Oh yeah - unnatural: The chartreux is a naturally occuring breed,
AFAIK, and one which does not suffer from any particular health
issues.

Steve.

"Steve G" wrote

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes" in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are
sadly
mistaken. It is my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always
having
tumors removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Well, some breeds have inherent problems (e.g., flat-faced cats,
Sphynxes, Manxes) but many do not. Choosing a good breeder should
minimise the risk of buying a genetic ****up.

Purebred cats are inbred. That is essentially the meaning
of "pure bred." It is only a matter of how inbred.



I have a moggie I adopted as an adult from a shelter. He uses his
litterbox 100% of the time, though I did need to train him slightly.
He scratches appropriately usually, though not always. He will
barely
tolerate being picked up; it has taken me one year or so to get him
to
the stage where I can pick him up and hold his paws.

It's funny--Cheeks will let me flip her on her back and
kiss her tummy, kiss her, all that stuff, and never put a
claw out. However, she runs from us as though it is s reflex.
If I put her food down then come near the bowl she
runs. I imagine it is because that is how she and the
others were trapped. Then again, she actually comes
to us for affection and revels in it, sleeps on the bed
every night and comes up for petting in the morning.

Even this he will
only tolerate maybe 70% of the time. He has a relatively delicate
stomach, perhaps by virtue of his time as a stray.

I also have a purebred Aby. He uses the litterbox 100% of the time,
and has only scratched in appropriate places. He will tolerate
basically any handling at all - I can pick him up, flip him onto his
back, and blow raspberries on his stomach and he'll not try to kill
me. He has never bit or scratched my appendages - well, unless you
count when he misses a grab for his furry mouse.

I think this is more a function of you--presumably a kind
cat-loving person--rasing this cat from kittenhood, whereas
I imagine with the stray you did not. Remember, we are
talking mostly about HEALTH here, not temperament.
See the original post.


Now, I don't begrudge my moggie his cantankerousness, but I'm still
very glad to have one cat who is completely tractable - an advantage
of a purebred from a good breeder.


I think this is complete nonsense. Even if it were
true, breeding for "tractability," even if possible,
would breed in traits PAIRED with it--such as
a susceptibility to disease. (I think temperament
is more nurture than nature.)

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

So, the people who do not neuter their animals and then let them
roam
are not the major problem then?

My God, man, where do you get your reasoning skills,
from Britney Spears? I didn't say that the market for
"pure breeds" was the ONLY reason the cats are there.


The person who gives up the cat because it no longer matches their
decor - they are not the problem?

How about working out the ratio of purebred cats to the shelter
population?

I'll leave that to the mathematically inclined. What I will
never forget is visiting the shelter and seeing all those
sweet, perfectly beautiful cats packed in like sardines,
yearning for a home. And the pound where they wait for
death.

Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an

alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads

Yes, it's right next to:
alt.my.brain.was.replaced.by.cheese.and.I.missed.t he.clue.bus.
Subscribe! You'd be right at home there.

Kind of cute, almost funny, even.


Oh yeah - unnatural: The chartreux is a naturally occuring breed,
AFAIK, and one which does not suffer from any particular health
issues.


"as far as you know" being the operant phrase. The world is no longer
large enough for any single breed of domesticated animal to exist
"naturally," without human interference. Pedigrees in pets, just as in
humans, is for shallow snots.

"Steve G" wrote

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes" in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are
sadly
mistaken. It is my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always
having
tumors removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Well, some breeds have inherent problems (e.g., flat-faced cats,
Sphynxes, Manxes) but many do not. Choosing a good breeder should
minimise the risk of buying a genetic ****up.

Purebred cats are inbred. That is essentially the meaning
of "pure bred." It is only a matter of how inbred.



I have a moggie I adopted as an adult from a shelter. He uses his
litterbox 100% of the time, though I did need to train him slightly.
He scratches appropriately usually, though not always. He will
barely
tolerate being picked up; it has taken me one year or so to get him
to
the stage where I can pick him up and hold his paws.

It's funny--Cheeks will let me flip her on her back and
kiss her tummy, kiss her, all that stuff, and never put a
claw out. However, she runs from us as though it is s reflex.
If I put her food down then come near the bowl she
runs. I imagine it is because that is how she and the
others were trapped. Then again, she actually comes
to us for affection and revels in it, sleeps on the bed
every night and comes up for petting in the morning.

Even this he will
only tolerate maybe 70% of the time. He has a relatively delicate
stomach, perhaps by virtue of his time as a stray.

I also have a purebred Aby. He uses the litterbox 100% of the time,
and has only scratched in appropriate places. He will tolerate
basically any handling at all - I can pick him up, flip him onto his
back, and blow raspberries on his stomach and he'll not try to kill
me. He has never bit or scratched my appendages - well, unless you
count when he misses a grab for his furry mouse.

I think this is more a function of you--presumably a kind
cat-loving person--rasing this cat from kittenhood, whereas
I imagine with the stray you did not. Remember, we are
talking mostly about HEALTH here, not temperament.
See the original post.


Now, I don't begrudge my moggie his cantankerousness, but I'm still
very glad to have one cat who is completely tractable - an advantage
of a purebred from a good breeder.


I think this is complete nonsense. Even if it were
true, breeding for "tractability," even if possible,
would breed in traits PAIRED with it--such as
a susceptibility to disease. (I think temperament
is more nurture than nature.)

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

So, the people who do not neuter their animals and then let them
roam
are not the major problem then?

My God, man, where do you get your reasoning skills,
from Britney Spears? I didn't say that the market for
"pure breeds" was the ONLY reason the cats are there.


The person who gives up the cat because it no longer matches their
decor - they are not the problem?

How about working out the ratio of purebred cats to the shelter
population?

I'll leave that to the mathematically inclined. What I will
never forget is visiting the shelter and seeing all those
sweet, perfectly beautiful cats packed in like sardines,
yearning for a home. And the pound where they wait for
death.

Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an

alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads

Yes, it's right next to:
alt.my.brain.was.replaced.by.cheese.and.I.missed.t he.clue.bus.
Subscribe! You'd be right at home there.

Kind of cute, almost funny, even.


Oh yeah - unnatural: The chartreux is a naturally occuring breed,
AFAIK, and one which does not suffer from any particular health
issues.


"as far as you know" being the operant phrase. The world is no longer
large enough for any single breed of domesticated animal to exist
"naturally," without human interference. Pedigrees in pets, just as in
humans, is for shallow snots.

Nice attitude. Believe what you believe. That is fine with me. You clearly
know zero about the Chartreux breed, it heritage, and clearly know nothing
about the lengths my breeder goes to in order to maintain a wide and healthy
gene pool. I had a pound cat. He was great. I have a purebred Golden
Retriever, she is great. This time around, I want a purebred cat whose
history and breeding I am familiar with. A pound cat can be WONDERFUL, or
can be horrible. It is pure pot luck, so take your best shot. This time
around I choose to go a different route. If you want to call my breeder
vulgar names, or call me names as well, that is your way and you may have at
it.

But all the name calling and twisted logic in the world will never make you
right. And your ignorance and lack of understanding about the "genetically
screwed with" Chartreux does not become you at all. You'd have at least some
measure of credibility if you had a working knowledge of the breed and
techniques that good breeders use. Instead you come off ignorant, with an
uneducated and unbalanced viewpoint.

"Mary" wrote in message
news

"Jimmy Lee" wrote in message
...
Not so fast, Mary. I just buried the greatest cat in the world. He
was a
black and white from the pound. What a great cat. I loved him.
Despite the
fact that he developed a myriad of diseases, puked 3 times a day,
cost me a
mint diagnosing and unsuccessfully treating his irritable bowel
disease, and
broke my heart by dying younger than expected - likely all as a
result of
poor breeding and bad genes.

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes"
in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are sadly
mistaken. It is
my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always having tumors
removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Left alone and not meddled with, cats tend to widen the gene pool,
which is healthy. In the hands of breeders the pool generally shrinks,
which is not.


My next door neighbor really
loves his pound cat too. Despite the fact that it was taken away
from its
mommy too early and never learned to use the litterbox, and despite
the fact
that it was not handled enough when it was young and thus resists
all human
contact without biting, he still loves it.

I have an adult cat from a no-kill shelter who was socialized from
feral to totally loving in four months after being found a 6-month-old
pregnant stray. Her toilet habits are impeccable.


The way I see it, there are two cats in the world. One is at the
pound, the
other is at the breeder's cattery.

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an
alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads
?

Nice attitude. Believe what you believe. That is fine with me. You clearly
know zero about the Chartreux breed, it heritage, and clearly know nothing
about the lengths my breeder goes to in order to maintain a wide and healthy
gene pool. I had a pound cat. He was great. I have a purebred Golden
Retriever, she is great. This time around, I want a purebred cat whose
history and breeding I am familiar with. A pound cat can be WONDERFUL, or
can be horrible. It is pure pot luck, so take your best shot. This time
around I choose to go a different route. If you want to call my breeder
vulgar names, or call me names as well, that is your way and you may have at
it.

But all the name calling and twisted logic in the world will never make you
right. And your ignorance and lack of understanding about the "genetically
screwed with" Chartreux does not become you at all. You'd have at least some
measure of credibility if you had a working knowledge of the breed and
techniques that good breeders use. Instead you come off ignorant, with an
uneducated and unbalanced viewpoint.

"Mary" wrote in message
news

"Jimmy Lee" wrote in message
...
Not so fast, Mary. I just buried the greatest cat in the world. He
was a
black and white from the pound. What a great cat. I loved him.
Despite the
fact that he developed a myriad of diseases, puked 3 times a day,
cost me a
mint diagnosing and unsuccessfully treating his irritable bowel
disease, and
broke my heart by dying younger than expected - likely all as a
result of
poor breeding and bad genes.

If you are thinking a cat from a breeder is going to have "better
genes"
in the sense that it will be healthier, I think you are sadly
mistaken. It is
my friends who have "purebred" cats who are always having tumors
removed and all kinds of horrific problems with their cats.

Left alone and not meddled with, cats tend to widen the gene pool,
which is healthy. In the hands of breeders the pool generally shrinks,
which is not.


My next door neighbor really
loves his pound cat too. Despite the fact that it was taken away
from its
mommy too early and never learned to use the litterbox, and despite
the fact
that it was not handled enough when it was young and thus resists
all human
contact without biting, he still loves it.

I have an adult cat from a no-kill shelter who was socialized from
feral to totally loving in four months after being found a 6-month-old
pregnant stray. Her toilet habits are impeccable.


The way I see it, there are two cats in the world. One is at the
pound, the
other is at the breeder's cattery.

The one at the cattery is there because people like you are
willing to buy it even though millions of animals are suffering
and being put down every day for want of a decent home.

Go ahead and get your "pure-bred", genetically
screwed-with cat, but don't try to justify it with these
kinds of lame arguments. Isn't there an
alt.pets.cats.unnatural.breeds.that.make.money.for .heartless.****heads
?

You just can't generalize shelter cats that way.

Agreed. Some are great others are not. You cannot simply generalize and I
did not mean to.

IMO, you have just as good a chance getting a cat that can be made into a
healthy, well-adjusted cat at a
shelter as anywhere else.

I completely disagree. I think your overall chances are not nearly as good
as going to a breeder and knowing the parents, and knowing how they were
raised. I believe you hedge you bets and improve your chances. That is my
opinion, and I certainly respect yours.

You just can't generalize shelter cats that way.

Agreed. Some are great others are not. You cannot simply generalize and I
did not mean to.

IMO, you have just as good a chance getting a cat that can be made into a
healthy, well-adjusted cat at a
shelter as anywhere else.

I completely disagree. I think your overall chances are not nearly as good
as going to a breeder and knowing the parents, and knowing how they were
raised. I believe you hedge you bets and improve your chances. That is my
opinion, and I certainly respect yours.

"Yngver" wrote in message
...
Jimmy Lee" wrote

The way I see it, there are two cats in the world. One is at the pound,
the
other is at the breeder's cattery. BOTH are in this world and I get to
choose. This time I want one whose breeding was well selected, and one
who
was with its mommy and well-socialized. While I realize that there are
no
guarantees, I at least know the cat's history, breeding stock, and
rearing
techniques. That, Mary, is important to me this time around.

Unfortunately anyone who posts on this ng anything about purebred cats
meets
with a lecture on why they should be adopting a shelter cat. There are
probably
more welcoming places to post your questions about various breeds.

Thanks. Where do you suggest? I am interested in finding that place.