My rationale for adopting and not breeding cats

On 2004-11-13 18:29:07 -0800, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER said:


"Katrina" wrote in message
news:2004111317423316807%kworley@yahoonet...

When Nosey and Scamper went to the Rainbow Bridge (Nosey about 3 years
ago, and Scamp this spring), I went to the shelter and found Ming- a
Siamese-marked young (maybe a year?) old nutered male. ...Ming has
another really cute feature- all 4 paws are white. A Siamese kittey is
really sweet, but a Siamese with white tooties is special. If you want
to see pictures of Ming and Buttercup:

http://homepage.mac.com/kworley/phot...toAlbum22.html

Katrina


How beautiful. Ming looks like a Snowshoe (a mixture of Siamese and
American shorthair).

Isn't he a sweetie? it was those white paws that got me (well, and the
blue eyes). He's got the markings of a Birman, but he's a shorthair.
When he and Buttercup wrassle in the hallway, all you can see is a blur
of brown legs- the fact that Ming has those white paws allows us to see
whose are whose...

Katrina

"Sherry " wrote in message
...
Here's Frank again. He loves doing the Hokey-Pokey. "Put your right paw
out..."
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank3.jpg

Sherry

Woops, wrong addy. Here's the hokey-pokey picture.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank1.jpg

Sherry

That's hilarious. I love it!

MaryL

"Sherry " wrote Have I ever showed you a pic of
Frank? Here's a couple.
He has a problem with his tongue. I think it's too long. This is how he
sleeps.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank3.jpg

Ooo! This is exactly what I want my next cat to look like. Except maybe not
with a problem
tongue. I imagine you have considered the possibility that Frank's tongue is
fine but he just has
not mastered keeping it in his mouth? I understand there are some members of
the British Royal
Family who have that problem too. Frank is much, much prettier. And I bet he
is soft. Is he vocal?



Here's Frank again. He loves doing the Hokey-Pokey. "Put your right paw
out..."
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank3.jpg

Sherry

Hey, that looks an awful lot like the first one. Subtle dancer, ain't he?

"Sherry " wrote:

Woops, wrong addy. Here's the hokey-pokey picture.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank1.jpg

Ahh, I see! He really is pretty. And he really does have a
problem with that tongue. G Maybe he is like Gnarly. I used
to tell her, "you are SUCH A PRETTY GIRL" then under my breath
"anditsagoodthingisn'titcuzyouain'tbreakinganyKitt yIQrecords."

I want a cat like this. Wooden-duck stupid is optional, but those
eyes, that fur! Gorgeous. I hope you have him a long, long time.

On 2004-11-13 18:28:17 -0800, "Mary" said:


"Katrina" wrote in message
news:2004111317423316807%kworley@yahoonet...
On 2004-11-13 11:47:08 -0800, "Mary" said:
snip
I really, really want a cat with Siamese coloring and looks.
Not so much the modern super-flat and narrow head,
but the blue eyes and the points and the lovely creamy
coat. I want a cat that looks like this for purely selfish
reasons--they are so beautiful!! When I feel I can take
another cat, I'll get one from a shelter. Happily these
looks appear to occur naturally, which was a surprise to
me. That a Siamese-looking cat could be born of
a tabby mother floored me.

My first stripey Siamese was from a litter that a classmate's cat had-
the mother was a calico, as was one of the kittens. The other kittens
were black and white tuxedo kitties, and the one Siamese kitten. We
took the calico kitten and the Siamese kitten.

Yow, a STRIPEY Siamese?! Sounds cool.

When Nosey and Scamper
went to the Rainbow Bridge (Nosey about 3 years ago, and Scamp this
spring), I went to the shelter and found Ming- a Siamese-marked young
(maybe a year?) old nutered male. About 6 weeks later, my son's
girlfriend (Cassie) showed up with two kittens from a litter born to a
feral mother near the office where Cassie's mom worked. Both kittens
have striped Siamese markings. I took the little female (Buttercup),
Cassie had someone else interested in the little male. Like you, I
don't like the body/head shape of the purebread Siamese cat, but I
*LOVE* the dark mask, tail and legs with the blue eyes. Ming has
another really cute feature- all 4 paws are white. A Siamese kittey is
really sweet, but a Siamese with white tooties is special. If you want
to see pictures of Ming and Buttercup:

http://homepage.mac.com/kworley/phot...toAlbum22.html



ahhh, Gahd, they are beautiful!! Those little white feeties are precious.
You're right, very special on a Siamese colored cat. Are your kitties
very vocal as Siamese are said to be, or is this just from the breeder
Siamese?

Ming is *very* *very* quiet... he doesn't meow (well, except when he's
on the way to TED). He makes this funny sound- I've never heard
anything like it from any other cat. It's not a mrrp?, it's not a
growl, it's something in between. Buttercup is more vocal, but even
she's not very talkative. The most vocal cat I've ever had was
Scamper- the calico with the stripey Siamese sister. Nosey wasn't very
noisey, but Scamp made up for it. She'd wander around the house making
these little noises just like she was talking to herself. If you
answered her, you'd swear that she was carrying on a coversation with
you. I think she just like to hear the sound of her own voice.

Katrina

Frank is much, much prettier. And I bet he
is soft. Is he vocal?

His fur is really soft and fine, like angora. It's weird, all the other cats
seized were regular Apple-head Siamese. He was the only one with long hair. I
found out later that there was a few longhairs in some of the litters, and they
were selling them as "Balinese." He's not as vocal as the old Siamese we used
to have, unless he wants something.
Sherry

in article , Sherry at
itty wrote on 11/13/04 8:40 PM:

Here's Frank again. He loves doing the Hokey-Pokey. "Put your right paw
out..."
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank3.jpg

Sherry

Woops, wrong addy. Here's the hokey-pokey picture.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/frank1.jpg

Sherry

He's sooooo pretty. When you are that pretty you don't have to be smart.

"Phil P." wrote in message ...
"Barb" wrote in message
erio.net...
I did go through having the Siamese cats as a young adult and just loved
them so and gave them the best of care. They lived to 11 and 7 and 3 and
then I had the heartbreak of their losses and at that point I decided to
get
black alley cats because I had seen a beautiful sleek black cat running
across a lawn one day while driving. The black cats have well outlived
the
Siamese probably because of no inbreeding


Here's a delightful quote from Roger Tabor - an avid cat lover and biologist
that hits the nail smack on the head:


"Moggies, as British cat lovers call non-purebred cats, are good, gutsy
animals that have the best possible pedigree, going back unhindered through
the mists of time. Because of their near-random mating, they have enjoyed
the best possible breeding program for countless generations. Their survival
and subsequent breeding derived from natural selection, favoring functioning
characteristics. It is an unbeatable combination for healthy animals,
producing a natural perfection of design and function."

"A natural perfection of design and function." - that about sums it up for
me!

I gotta laugh when breeders say they're inbreeding to "improve" and
"preserve" the breed. While they're inbreeding to fix a certain trait
they're also passing on the same set of genes for the immune system from
both parents. After several successive generations the kittens become
genetically very similar with less vigorous immune systems. Since all the
cats are so genetically similar, if one gets sick, they all get sick.
That's why we hear of "epidemics" of certain diseases in catteries.

Instead of preserving the breeds, their paving the road to extinction. As
the gene pool contracts, so does immunity.

In a few more years, the brachycephalic breeds with the most extreme
conformations (e.g., Persian and Himalayan) won't even be able to breathe.

Phil

I have seen pictures of Persian cats from cat shows back about 60
years or so ago (not exactly sure) before they started to breed them
to have the smushed-in faces and it's astounding how big a change they
have made in the appearance of a large percentage of the breed in such
a short space of time. The cat in the picture I saw looked like a
slightly stumpy long-haired cat with a jaw that was a little squarish
but otherwise its face was pretty unremarkable. The face of the cat
from 60 years ago looked nothing like the ones of the Persian's I've
seen in person at cat shows and in people's homes.

"CajunPrincess" wrote in message
om...
"Phil P." wrote in message
...
"Barb" wrote in message
erio.net...
I did go through having the Siamese cats as a young adult and just
loved
them so and gave them the best of care. They lived to 11 and 7 and 3
and
then I had the heartbreak of their losses and at that point I decided
to
get
black alley cats because I had seen a beautiful sleek black cat
running
across a lawn one day while driving. The black cats have well
outlived
the
Siamese probably because of no inbreeding


Here's a delightful quote from Roger Tabor - an avid cat lover and
biologist
that hits the nail smack on the head:


"Moggies, as British cat lovers call non-purebred cats, are good, gutsy
animals that have the best possible pedigree, going back unhindered
through
the mists of time. Because of their near-random mating, they have
enjoyed
the best possible breeding program for countless generations. Their
survival
and subsequent breeding derived from natural selection, favoring
functioning
characteristics. It is an unbeatable combination for healthy animals,
producing a natural perfection of design and function."

"A natural perfection of design and function." - that about sums it up
for
me!

I gotta laugh when breeders say they're inbreeding to "improve" and
"preserve" the breed. While they're inbreeding to fix a certain trait
they're also passing on the same set of genes for the immune system from
both parents. After several successive generations the kittens become
genetically very similar with less vigorous immune systems. Since all
the
cats are so genetically similar, if one gets sick, they all get sick.
That's why we hear of "epidemics" of certain diseases in catteries.

Instead of preserving the breeds, their paving the road to extinction.
As
the gene pool contracts, so does immunity.

In a few more years, the brachycephalic breeds with the most extreme
conformations (e.g., Persian and Himalayan) won't even be able to
breathe.

Phil

I have seen pictures of Persian cats from cat shows back about 60
years or so ago (not exactly sure) before they started to breed them
to have the smushed-in faces and it's astounding how big a change they
have made in the appearance of a large percentage of the breed in such
a short space of time. The cat in the picture I saw looked like a
slightly stumpy long-haired cat with a jaw that was a little squarish
but otherwise its face was pretty unremarkable. The face of the cat
from 60 years ago looked nothing like the ones of the Persian's I've
seen in person at cat shows and in people's homes.


Can you imagine what those breeds will look in another 60 years? providing,
of course they're not extinct. They probably won't even look like cats -
they hardly look like cats now - although the tail does give them away.
Oops, Manx breeders took care of that feature, too.

Nature's recipe has stood the test of time for millions of years - The
breeders' recipe can't even make a 100 years without actually creating
genetic defects that never occurred naturally in nature - e.g.,
brachycephalic airway syndrome.

Kittens born with certain genetic defects never make it to the auction block
and are quietly disposed of so that the cattery doesn't get a reputation
for producing genetically defective cats. Kittens that "don't meet breed
standards" (pretentious and arrogant classification) are classified as "pet
quality"... as if its an inferior "product".

There was book written about 60 years ago about selective breeding for
perfection - but I can't understand it because it was written in German...

Phil

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:38:25 -0600, Karen Chuplis
wrote:

that poor little baby! You can see his head is so much bigger than his body.
I hope he gets healhy. Please update occassionally.

He's doing better now (that picture is a couple of weeks old).
He's gone up to 2.5 pounds now (did I say that before?) and he's got
much more energy and is more 'in balance' looking. Still skinny, but
finally acting like a kitten.
His legacy of starvation is thankfully not the desire to eat
everything in sight -- instead he gets very very possessive of 'really
good treats'. We discovered this when my husband gave him three
largish chunks of roast chicken as his treat for taking his medicine.
Hakkai tried to stuff them all in his mouth at once and went a little
nuts growling and swatting at the pieces he couldn't get in his mouth
and hiding them under his body and protecting his food from no one.
He was so upset that he couldn't make himself actually eat his treats.
It was really sad. We used some long, soothing strokes on him and
talked softly to him and he finally calmed down enough to be able to
eat.




Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid