I got picked on by blacks and Irish people for being Jewish but I must love these people

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:23:12 -0330, Cheryl P. wrote:

Yowie wrote:

I never understood the idea that if you happened to have an ancestor of
darker skin, you were therefore a member of the darker-skinned group,
no matter how distant in the past, no matter your current appearance or
cultural identification, or even just what proportion of your genetic
makeup can be traced back to that ancestor (if it was several
generations ago, its quite possible you have *none* of their DNA).

In the context of race-based slavery (which in itself, doesn't appear to
have been the most common form of slavery throughout history),
mixed-race people posed a real problem. It must have been much simpler
to fall back on the old idea of being born into slavery, which meant
that if even one of your distant ancestors was a slave, you were too.
You didn't get to be half a slave because half of your ancestry was of
the other racial group!

But this sort of thinking isn't limited to race. Lots of people think
you should belong to your original ethnic group, even if you (or your
grandparents!) emigrated to a new and multi-cultural country. This can
be as mild as enjoying Irish music or Spanish cooking even if it's been
three or four generations since anyone in your family has been in
Ireland or Spain - or as vicious as support by money or actions
terrorism that has it's roots and motivation in Ireland or Spain.

Cheryl

I once had someone tell me, in apparent sincerity, that it was cultural
imperialism on my part to enjoy food that originated in any culture other
than my ancestral ones (I can see how forcing someone else to stick to
_my_ ancestral culture would be cultural imperialism, but not the other
way around). I told them that, since my ancestry was mostly from
Scotland, a place not suited for growing any sort of spices due to the
cool, damp climate, then my fondness for spicy food should be seen as
affirmative action.

--
John F. Eldredge --
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

hopitus wrote in news:d5ee1aef-4d10-44ac-9218-
:


Now that we have that settled, why don't we invite the dude who eats
cat
food over in h&b; I could have a really meaningful exchange with him
i.e.
kibbles vs gooshy, fish vs chicken, canned vs bagged....BTW your troll
here is still crossposting. Anyone for Scientology? I thought they
could
hook him up to a machine that would, they say, solve all his
problems..
he crossposted to them but did not get a hot reception there. their
ng
is not loaded with regs who will respond to anything that wanders
in....
they are also not into cats.

Well i am glad i have this person in my bozo file, and i have xnews
confiured to kill cross posting

John F. Eldredge wrote:

I once had someone tell me, in apparent sincerity, that it was cultural
imperialism on my part to enjoy food that originated in any culture other
than my ancestral ones (I can see how forcing someone else to stick to
_my_ ancestral culture would be cultural imperialism, but not the other
way around). I told them that, since my ancestry was mostly from
Scotland, a place not suited for growing any sort of spices due to the
cool, damp climate, then my fondness for spicy food should be seen as
affirmative action.

I was once told that no matter what my opinion on the matter, I was
European.

You'd think a white supremacist would know better than to assume that
(a) there was only one white-skinned ethnic group (ie 'European') and
(b) Everyone, regardless of how long ago their ancestors came from a
place, automatically belonged to lands they'd never seen or lived in.

Mind you, if he'd said I might be treated and/or regarded as European by
others, he might have had a point, although in my experience real
Europeans can spot me as a ringer from a mile away. There's something
about the clothing, the accent, maybe even the way I walk, that always
gives me away.

Cheryl

Marina wrote:

Debbie Wilson wrote:

http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/.../AutismSpectru
mQuotient.aspx

I scored 30 on this test..... I would describe myself as an introvert,
for sure, but, wow.

I, in turn, seem to be much less introvert than I thought. I scored 21.
No wonder I feel a complete outsider in this thread... No one ever
picked on me. But I didn't pick on anyone, either.

Maybe you just went to school with nicer kids? Not implying that you
would be marked for scapegoating if you'd gone to school with bullies -
I'm not saying anything about you, but rather, I'm asking about your
environment. It would be nice to think that bullying and scapegoating
of particular individuals isn't *inevitable*. It's like what someone
else was saying - maybe we've evolved mistrust of people who seem
different or foreign, but we do have choices about whether we get past
that mistrust or not.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

John F. Eldredge wrote:

I once had someone tell me, in apparent sincerity, that it was cultural
imperialism on my part to enjoy food that originated in any culture other
than my ancestral ones (I can see how forcing someone else to stick to
_my_ ancestral culture would be cultural imperialism, but not the other
way around).

Either they used the wrong term, or you might have misheard them, but
when people talk about this, what they're really referring to is
cultural *appropriation*, not imperialism. You're right that imperialism
means spreading the culture and values of a dominant culture to other
nations or groups. But appropriation means taking things from other
cultures and making them your own.

I have a hard time with this one. Cultures that live in proxmity bump
up against each other all the time. (And nowadays not even proximity is
necessary any more.) We see each other's clothes, we hear each other's
music, we might eat each other's food. It's always been natural for
people to take ideas from other people, maybe combining it with some
of their own ideas to make something completely new. This is one way
that cultures evolve and new cultures are created. There's nothing wrong
with that. On the contrary, I think it's wonderful.

The problem comes when one culture is dominant over another, or over
several others. Then it's not just a matter of innocent borrowing among
cultures, and co-creating new forms together as equals. The dominant
culture can dictate the terms. They might exploit cultural items from
the subordinate culture for economic reasons, depriving that group of
their own income. Or they might force their own culture on the
subordinate one, making them speak the dominant language, dress and
wear their hair in the dominant style, etc. Unequal power dynamics
change the cultural exchange from one that's beneficial for both, to
one that is more about exploitation or annihilation of one culture
by another.

That said, it's never really that simple, either way. Some people
refuse to see the power inequalities among different groups of people,
and naively believe that we're all on equal footing. On the other hand,
some people see *only* the power inequalities, and they tend to forget
that we're still talking about human beings, and human beings are
curious about each other and about other customs, and they like to
learn new forms of expression. So I see both things happening
simultaneously.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

Debbie Wilson wrote:

This online test is interesting (to me, anyway - I am certainly a geek)
(watch the line wrap)

http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/.../AutismSpectru
mQuotient.aspx

I scored 30 on this test..... I would describe myself as an introvert,
for sure, but, wow.

I scored 29, which puts me well into the "above average" (at being
autistic) category.

I don't think this is just testing how introverted or extroverted you
are. It's also testing how much you focus on details vs the overall
meaning of something, and on how good your visual imagination is (very
high for many people with autism/Asperger's). Also on how well you can
interpret other people's non-verbal communication.

It's always hard for me to do these types of quizzes because I change
a lot. During some periods of my life, I've been very social, while in
others, I'm pretty introverted. It depends on the situation, too. I'm
very outgoing with people I trust, but clam up around those I don't
trust (which, btw, doesn't always relate directly to how well I know
the person). So it also depends on how trusting I'm feeling, in general.

Some things that don't seem to vary is that I have very poor visual
imagination (it's hard for me to picture clear images in my mind -
usually they are very vague). I guess this would make me "less autistic"
than someone with a very clear and detailed visual imagination.

On the "more autistic" side, I'm not so great at picking up on non-
verbal communication. I usually need things to be stated explicitly.
People can be very blaming about this, like I'm "clueless" and it's
my fault, that I could "get a clue" about what someone's trying to
say if I just paid attention. That hurts.

As a kid I had a lot of behaviors that one might consider autistic. If
I were growing up now, I'm sure I'd be tested for it. I used to spend
hours and hours spinning around a pole, listening to the same song on
the record player over and over (on auto-repeat). I was definitely
fascinated by numbers and dates, and the days of the week that dates
would fall on. Like, which years did January 12 fall on a Friday? That
sort of thing.

I really don't obsess about that stuff very much any more. Can a
person outgrow autism? If it's due to a brain injury or developmental
issue, how could that change? I think it's probably more likely that
a person who seems to "outgrow" childhood autism probably didn't have
it to begin with, but simply had behavior patterns that looked a lot
like it, the way I did.

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)

Debbie Wilson wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:

I've seen no symptoms of Aspergers as I know it in this thread.
What you are all describing is fascinating aspects of your own
personality where you pursue an interest that is very important to
you.

You are allowed to be a geek. It doesn't mean you have Aspergers.

This online test is interesting (to me, anyway - I am certainly a
geek) (watch the line wrap)

http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/.../AutismSpectru
mQuotient.aspx

I scored 30 on this test..... I would describe myself as an introvert,
for sure, but, wow.

27 for me.

Yowie
--
"because its more fun to be evil" - Jarppi, _The Dudesons_

On 03 Dec 2008 22:27:46 GMT, wrote:

I really don't obsess about that stuff very much any more. Can a
person outgrow autism? If it's due to a brain injury or developmental
issue, how could that change? I think it's probably more likely that
a person who seems to "outgrow" childhood autism probably didn't have
it to begin with, but simply had behavior patterns that looked a lot
like it, the way I did.

Everybody has their quirks, but autism is a devastating condition.
I've known a few autistic people and they were severely disabled.

Bud

"Debbie Wilson" wrote in message
...

This online test is interesting (to me, anyway - I am certainly a geek)
(watch the line wrap)

http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/.../AutismSpectru
mQuotient.aspx

I scored 30 on this test..... I would describe myself as an introvert,
for sure, but, wow.


Close, I scored 31, but then I'm an extroverted introvert. It causes lots
of chaos at times.

Pam S

tanadashoes wrote:
"Debbie Wilson" wrote in message
...
This online test is interesting (to me, anyway - I am certainly a geek)
(watch the line wrap)

http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/.../AutismSpectru
mQuotient.aspx
I scored 30 on this test.....
Close, I scored 31...

Wow. Am I the only weirdo? I scored 8. And I'm a geek (I
translate geek to English, anyway, writing technical materials
for developers).


--
Deborah

Come to think of it, I believe the capacity for
joy is the biggest free lunch of all. Stef Maruch