Early age neutering?

I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he
had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I
had my second male cat neutered at six months. The Vet said that he does not
like to do it before six months because of the dangers of the aenesthetic
when administered at an earlier age. So unless I hear or read that issue
directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by the
six month rule in the future. After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

-cr

After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

-cr

to guarantee compliance with placed and adopted animals, whether from a shelter
or private home.

Lot's of good intentions, but people just don't follow through 100%. Early S/N
guarantees that there will be no reproduction for the animal.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for over a decade and it's a truly
great program.


Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

-cr

to guarantee compliance with placed and adopted animals, whether from a shelter
or private home.

Lot's of good intentions, but people just don't follow through 100%. Early S/N
guarantees that there will be no reproduction for the animal.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for over a decade and it's a truly
great program.


Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On 31 Aug 2003 12:51:49 -0700, (Calvin Rice) wrote:

I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he
had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I
had my second male cat neutered at six months. The Vet said that he does not
like to do it before six months because of the dangers of the aenesthetic
when administered at an earlier age. So unless I hear or read that issue
directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by the
six month rule in the future. After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

This post is going to get me flamed. I don't really care. I have eight
Cats. Two Maine Coons, two Siamese and four shelter adopted cats. The
Maine coon is a slow growing cat. Most Maine Coon breeders don't
recommend neutering a male until the age of NINE months. Male cats of
any type are normally not neutered until six months.

A few Maine Coon breeders have capitulated to the early neuter crowd.
They are afraid of back yard breeders. This argument has some merit ,
but I don't think you should do something that has NO proven benefit
and could be detrimental.

I have seen the results of early neutering in male Maine coons. Some
appear to attain normal growth. Others are clearly smaller and less
developed because of early neuter. In the case of mixed breeds , it is
impossible to tell if the procedure has detrimental effects at this
time.

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old. They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces. Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue. There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue. Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

The reason I am anti-declaw is because there is incontrovertible
evidence that it is not beneficial to cats. There are intelligent
people on both sides of the early neuter issue. I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter. The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

Many people have paid in advance for neutering , but supposedly never
bothered to get the cat neutered. They could have gotten it done at
there own Vet. Maybe they moved out of town and got it done at some
Vet unrelated to the shelter. I have never even been able to pin down
shelter workers on this issue. Unless somebody wants the final papers
on a purebred cat , I would think a lot of them just don't bother
sending " proof " to the shelter if the neuter was done by a Vet who
is not connected to the shelter.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing
when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter
crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed
breed cats getting adopted.





-cr

On 31 Aug 2003 12:51:49 -0700, (Calvin Rice) wrote:

I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that he
had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so I
had my second male cat neutered at six months. The Vet said that he does not
like to do it before six months because of the dangers of the aenesthetic
when administered at an earlier age. So unless I hear or read that issue
directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by the
six month rule in the future. After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

This post is going to get me flamed. I don't really care. I have eight
Cats. Two Maine Coons, two Siamese and four shelter adopted cats. The
Maine coon is a slow growing cat. Most Maine Coon breeders don't
recommend neutering a male until the age of NINE months. Male cats of
any type are normally not neutered until six months.

A few Maine Coon breeders have capitulated to the early neuter crowd.
They are afraid of back yard breeders. This argument has some merit ,
but I don't think you should do something that has NO proven benefit
and could be detrimental.

I have seen the results of early neutering in male Maine coons. Some
appear to attain normal growth. Others are clearly smaller and less
developed because of early neuter. In the case of mixed breeds , it is
impossible to tell if the procedure has detrimental effects at this
time.

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old. They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces. Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue. There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue. Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

The reason I am anti-declaw is because there is incontrovertible
evidence that it is not beneficial to cats. There are intelligent
people on both sides of the early neuter issue. I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter. The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

Many people have paid in advance for neutering , but supposedly never
bothered to get the cat neutered. They could have gotten it done at
there own Vet. Maybe they moved out of town and got it done at some
Vet unrelated to the shelter. I have never even been able to pin down
shelter workers on this issue. Unless somebody wants the final papers
on a purebred cat , I would think a lot of them just don't bother
sending " proof " to the shelter if the neuter was done by a Vet who
is not connected to the shelter.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing
when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter
crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed
breed cats getting adopted.





-cr

From: Misty9999

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old.

What "SPCA"? There is no country-wide umbrella organization by this
name/acronym. The ASPCA in NYC is an independent shelter, as are the many
"SPCA's" in various parts of the country. Each has their own stance.

They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces.

Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global
"SPCA".

Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue.

Very hard to believe.

There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue.

Once again, pure bizarre speculation.

Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

This is true.

I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for about 12 years. True
consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll
take that anyday!

The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and
keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Because the best intentions don't guarantee compliance. Your "references" are
that you don't know much about shelter organization for one! Too bad your fear
of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have
adopted. That's a better choice?




Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing
when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter
crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed
breed cats getting adopted.





-cr










Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

From: Misty9999

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old.

What "SPCA"? There is no country-wide umbrella organization by this
name/acronym. The ASPCA in NYC is an independent shelter, as are the many
"SPCA's" in various parts of the country. Each has their own stance.

They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces.

Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global
"SPCA".

Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue.

Very hard to believe.

There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue.

Once again, pure bizarre speculation.

Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

This is true.

I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for about 12 years. True
consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll
take that anyday!

The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and
keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Because the best intentions don't guarantee compliance. Your "references" are
that you don't know much about shelter organization for one! Too bad your fear
of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have
adopted. That's a better choice?




Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing
when an adult cat was fixed. I think that the early spay / neuter
crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed
breed cats getting adopted.





-cr










Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On 05 Sep 2003 12:08:49 GMT, (J1Boss) wrote:

From: Misty9999

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old.

What "SPCA"? There is no country-wide umbrella organization by this
name/acronym. The ASPCA in NYC is an independent shelter, as are the many
"SPCA's" in various parts of the country. Each has their own stance.

They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces.

Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global
"SPCA".

SPCA is the best known acronym. I never meant to imply that they were
all one global organization. For your convenience , I will call them "
shelters"


Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue.

Very hard to believe.

Why?

There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue.

Once again, pure bizarre speculation.

No speculation whatsoever on this issue. For everybody who even
bothers to post on the internet, there are 1,000's who don't really
care about online boards. I will go with real life people who are fed
up with most shelters attitude on this issue.

Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

This is true.

I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for about 12 years. True
consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll
take that anyday!

And how about the cats who won't be adopted over this issue? I was
talking about the possible health consequences to the cats.


The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and
keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable.

Can't you read. I am all for spay/neuter. I am against shelters doing
it at an age that could cause potential problems for the cat.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Because the best intentions don't guarantee compliance. Your "references" are
that you don't know much about shelter organization for one! Too bad your fear
of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have
adopted. That's a better choice?

My references are the type of home I give my cats and proof that they
get proper veterinary care, nutritional care etc. My ONLY choice at
this time ( if I wanted to get another cat ) is to buy from a breeder.
Most " shelters" have taken the choice of the spay/neuter time frame
from the potential adopter. Sorry , but I refuse to be forced to do
something that myself and a lot of Vets don't agree with.

On 05 Sep 2003 12:08:49 GMT, (J1Boss) wrote:

From: Misty9999

The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old.

What "SPCA"? There is no country-wide umbrella organization by this
name/acronym. The ASPCA in NYC is an independent shelter, as are the many
"SPCA's" in various parts of the country. Each has their own stance.

They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces.

Bunk. Once again, donations are to INDIVIDUAL SHELTERS - there is no global
"SPCA".

SPCA is the best known acronym. I never meant to imply that they were
all one global organization. For your convenience , I will call them "
shelters"


Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue.

Very hard to believe.

Why?

There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue.

Once again, pure bizarre speculation.

No speculation whatsoever on this issue. For everybody who even
bothers to post on the internet, there are 1,000's who don't really
care about online boards. I will go with real life people who are fed
up with most shelters attitude on this issue.

Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

This is true.

I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter.

The shelter I work with has been doing it for about 12 years. True
consequences? How about a reduction in the number of cats reproducing. I'll
take that anyday!

And how about the cats who won't be adopted over this issue? I was
talking about the possible health consequences to the cats.


The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

And accidental litters, and surrendering their male cat for spraying, and
keeping the cats healthy and emotionally stable.

Can't you read. I am all for spay/neuter. I am against shelters doing
it at an age that could cause potential problems for the cat.

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats. Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody. I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered , but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

Because the best intentions don't guarantee compliance. Your "references" are
that you don't know much about shelter organization for one! Too bad your fear
of consequences of early s/n could mean death for the cat you "would" have
adopted. That's a better choice?

My references are the type of home I give my cats and proof that they
get proper veterinary care, nutritional care etc. My ONLY choice at
this time ( if I wanted to get another cat ) is to buy from a breeder.
Most " shelters" have taken the choice of the spay/neuter time frame
from the potential adopter. Sorry , but I refuse to be forced to do
something that myself and a lot of Vets don't agree with.

"Misty9999" wrote in message
...
On 31 Aug 2003 12:51:49 -0700, (Calvin Rice) wrote:

I had my first male cat neutered at eight months. But I suspected that
he
had started to 'spray' mark territory shortly before he was neutered, so
I
had my second male cat neutered at six months. The Vet said that he does
not
like to do it before six months because of the dangers of the aenesthetic
when administered at an earlier age. So unless I hear or read that issue
directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed, I will continue to go by
the
six month rule in the future.

It has been.directly, clearly, and convincingly addressed for more than *20*
years..... Here are three studies that have
been published in peer-reviewed veterinary medical journals... for starters.
:
Faggella AM all(] Aronsohn MG
Anesthetic techniques for neutering 6 to 14 weekÂ*old kittens.
J Ain Net Med Assoc 202:56, 1993.
(This is a study comparing four anesthetic protocols used for early
neutering in kittens)


Grandy IL and Dunlop Cl:
Anesthesia of pups and kittens.
J Am Vet Med Assoc 198:1244, 1991.
(Here's a study reviewing physiology, pharmacokinetics, and anesthetics used
in pediatric animals).


Theran P:
Early-age neutering of dogs and cats.
J Am Vet Med Assoc 202: 914, 1993.
(This is a review of surgical and anesthetic techniques for neutering 6- to
14-week-old puppies and kittens).

When you finish these, I'll give you more. But these ought to convince
you

After all, why subject a tiny kitten to
surgery and aenesthetic any sooner than necessary?

Earlier *is* necessary because young kittens have less abdominal fat and
muscle to cut through and heal. Therefore, early age neutering is *less*
traumatic for the kitten, requires *shorter* anesthetic and operative times,
and recovery and healing is *much* faster than the outdated, traditional
age.


This post is going to get me flamed. I don't really care.

I wouldn't flame a person who honestly doesn't know better and is simply
misinformed and/or uninformed.


I have eight
Cats. Two Maine Coons, two Siamese and four shelter adopted cats. The
Maine coon is a slow growing cat. Most Maine Coon breeders don't
recommend neutering a male until the age of NINE months.

There are a lot of uninformed and misinformed people around who are still in
the dark ages about neutering. Many breeders think being a breeder
automatically makes them a wiz or some kind of expert. Think about it,
look at the mentality of the average breeder:

2 many cats + a few more cats = need more cats...




A few Maine Coon breeders have capitulated to the early neuter crowd.

The smarter ones....

They are afraid of back yard breeders. This argument has some merit ,
but I don't think you should do something that has NO proven benefit
and could be detrimental.

Early age neutering *does* have *several* *proven* benefits and advantages
over traditional age neutering... You *really* need to do some research and
update your knowledge on the subject. Most of your information is outdated
by at least *20 years*.



I have seen the results of early neutering in male Maine coons. Some
appear to attain normal growth. Others are clearly smaller and less
developed because of early neuter.

LOL! That is old outdated *myth* that was debunked many years ago. Rather
than stunted growth, early age neutering results in either normal stature or
even *greater* stature! Gonadal hormones control the closure of the
growth plate at the ends of the bones (that's where the bones grow from)..
In the absence of the hormones, the growth plate remains open for a longer
time -- so the bones continue to grow. The delay in the closure of the
growth plate happens *regardless* if the cat is neutered at 8 weeks or 9
months. The difference in stature you noticed was more likely
genetic-related rather neuter related...


In the case of mixed breeds , it is
impossible to tell if the procedure has detrimental effects at this
time.

Early age neutering was developed for *shelters* - not breeders. More than
*35 years* of studies have shown *no* detrimental effects of early
age neutering providing that the vet follows *well established* anesthetic
protocols and surgical techniques.


The SPCA has taken the stance that all their cats are going to be
fixed at six weeks old. They seem to have enough donations to get away
with it. Other shelters are taking the same stance. I think it is
going to blow up in their faces.

Actually, early age neutering has proved quite successful.

Early age neutering

A. Benefits the shelter because it guarantees the cat will not have
kittens - many of which would probably end up in the shelter adding to the
overpopulation problem.

B. Benefits the adoptives because they don't have to worry about neutering
the cat and running the risk of more kittens.

C. Benefits the cat because the surgery is less traumatic, recovery and
healing are faster and less painful.

D. Benefits the vet because anesthetic and operative times are shorter;
surgery is easier and more precise because visualization of the organs is
better because of less abdominal fat and muscle; virtually no bleeding
because the smaller vessel size allows for *precise* hemostasis .

E. Benefits cats as a *species* because of less unwanted/accidental births
which results in less deaths.

Most people who have purebred cats
also have shelter adopted cats. I am not a breeder , but most breeders
have disposable income. Many breeders will no longer donate to
shelters because of this issue.

There are attorneys and other
professionals who will no longer do pro bono work for shelters over
this issue. Vets seem to be divided over this issue.

Where on earth do you get your information from???



The reason I am anti-declaw is because there is incontrovertible
evidence that it is not beneficial to cats.

At least you've got that right!


There are intelligent
people on both sides of the early neuter issue. I think it will take
another twenty years before we know the true consequences of early
spay/ neuter.

"We"? You mean *you* and your uninformed breeder. The twenty years have
come and gone... No adverse effects on physical and behavioral development
in cats neutered at early ages have ever been documented in more than 20
years of clinical studies.

The only real argument of merit at this time is to
prevent irresponsible people from having " Just One Litter "

No, early age neutering benefits the *cat*, the owner, the vet, and cats as
a species.

? snipped

Thanks to the shelter's hard line stance on this issue , I won't be
adopting any more shelter cats.

That's right, punish the cats...

Reputable breeders won't sell a cat
to just anybody.

Yes. The buyer must have money.

I don't understand why my references are not good
enough to convince these shelter operators that I will get the cat
spay/ neutered ,

....because 80% of the people who adopt intact cats really do get them
neutered..... after a litter or two....


but I don't want a cat that has been fixed at six
weeks old.

You'll feel differently after you've done some research from *credible*
sources.


Thanks to early spay / neutering , there is often no way of knowing
when an adult cat was fixed.

You can't tell if an adult cat was neutered at six months unless the vet did
a sloppy job. Many vets use a small tattoo near the incision or stainless
steel subcutaneous sutures that are easily detectable on x-rays

I think that the early spay / neuter
crowd has gone off the deep end and is hurting the chances of mixed
breed cats getting adopted.

You're very wrong. Actually, EAN makes adopting cats from a shelter *more*
appealing because most adoptives are delighted the cats were neutered before
adoption!

You really need to do some serious research on EAN because you have been
misinformed about a lot of things.

Phil