Sort [OT] Animal behaviour

in article , Yowie at
wrote on 8/10/04 8:54 PM:

Vaguely watching the Animal Planet, where it showed a Gorilla rescuing a 4
yo boy who fell into the gorilla pen at the zoo and became unconcious. An
adult female gently picked the boy up and took him to the door at the back
of the enclosure and waited until the ambulance staff could get to him.

The boffins ont he TV are trying to tell me that her behaviour was not
altruistic, and that she didn't pick up the boy because he was injured and
it was only *coincidence* that she took him to the door where the humans
came in and out. The upshot being that the boffins were doubting whether
gorrillas, or indeed, any animal had the ability to understand that another
beign was in need of help, and in the case of this gorilla, was smart enough
to know that the boy needed the assistance of "his kind" rather than her
gorilla kind.

This sort of crap makes me angry. If gorillas, considered close relatives of
us humans, can't have feelings or understand when another being is suffering
and needs help, and can't understand how to get what they believe is needed,
what the heck has Shmoggleberry and Fluffy, a mere cat & dog been doing all
these years. Indeed, what have all those stories about *your* pets mean?

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways, but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

in article , Yowie at
wrote on 8/10/04 8:54 PM:

Vaguely watching the Animal Planet, where it showed a Gorilla rescuing a 4
yo boy who fell into the gorilla pen at the zoo and became unconcious. An
adult female gently picked the boy up and took him to the door at the back
of the enclosure and waited until the ambulance staff could get to him.

The boffins ont he TV are trying to tell me that her behaviour was not
altruistic, and that she didn't pick up the boy because he was injured and
it was only *coincidence* that she took him to the door where the humans
came in and out. The upshot being that the boffins were doubting whether
gorrillas, or indeed, any animal had the ability to understand that another
beign was in need of help, and in the case of this gorilla, was smart enough
to know that the boy needed the assistance of "his kind" rather than her
gorilla kind.

This sort of crap makes me angry. If gorillas, considered close relatives of
us humans, can't have feelings or understand when another being is suffering
and needs help, and can't understand how to get what they believe is needed,
what the heck has Shmoggleberry and Fluffy, a mere cat & dog been doing all
these years. Indeed, what have all those stories about *your* pets mean?

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways, but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

in article , Yowie at
wrote on 8/10/04 8:54 PM:

Vaguely watching the Animal Planet, where it showed a Gorilla rescuing a 4
yo boy who fell into the gorilla pen at the zoo and became unconcious. An
adult female gently picked the boy up and took him to the door at the back
of the enclosure and waited until the ambulance staff could get to him.

The boffins ont he TV are trying to tell me that her behaviour was not
altruistic, and that she didn't pick up the boy because he was injured and
it was only *coincidence* that she took him to the door where the humans
came in and out. The upshot being that the boffins were doubting whether
gorrillas, or indeed, any animal had the ability to understand that another
beign was in need of help, and in the case of this gorilla, was smart enough
to know that the boy needed the assistance of "his kind" rather than her
gorilla kind.

This sort of crap makes me angry. If gorillas, considered close relatives of
us humans, can't have feelings or understand when another being is suffering
and needs help, and can't understand how to get what they believe is needed,
what the heck has Shmoggleberry and Fluffy, a mere cat & dog been doing all
these years. Indeed, what have all those stories about *your* pets mean?

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways, but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and
Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways,
but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog
can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure
of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Sherry

As I remember it, the kitten got out and was killed by a car. Koko
was desolate until they found her another kitten. MLB

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and
Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways,
but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog
can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure
of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Sherry

As I remember it, the kitten got out and was killed by a car. Koko
was desolate until they found her another kitten. MLB

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

Crikey, Shmogg and Fluff are intimately aware if any of us aren't feeling
the best. Both do what they think is best to help us get better. Shmogg
nuzzles up and purrs his little brains out, Fluffy vomits grass onto us
(gross, but in doggy terms, she's giving us medicine). Both Shmogg and
Fluff
know how to let their needs be known. Yes,t hey do it in different ways,
but
its stilll quite obvious what they want. And both display affection,
sadness, happiness, fear and even anger, If a "mere" cat or a "mere" dog
can
do all of these things, surely a gorilla *a creature that can learn sign
language* can see a creature in need and do what they think is best to help
them.

Obviously those scientists who think that way have never had the pleasure
of
pets.

As Shmogg & Fluff would say "Hisspit and Grrrrr"

Yowie


I don't understand taht thinking either. I can only figure it makes them
feel better about experiments etc. and keeps them at the top of the pole
more firmly. It makes me mad too, but you can't tell them anything.
Sometimes it's better just to realize that there are those of us who just
know better despite the "experts".

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Sherry

As I remember it, the kitten got out and was killed by a car. Koko
was desolate until they found her another kitten. MLB

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Actually, she celebrated her 33rd BD this year (no I didn't know off
the top of my head, I googled and found her at http://www.koko.org/
Seems she's had several kittens through the years (pix at
http://koko.org/kidsclub/pictures/koko_kittens.html )

Sadly. like many catslaves, it seem that her first kitten got out of
the gorilla cage and was a victim of a traffic accident back. From
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~lilbun/ts/inner2.html

"Koko, the subject of the longest ongoing ape language study,
is a good example. Asked what she'd like for her birthday one
year, Koko requested a kitten. She named her little gray,
tailless companion All Ball, and carried her everywhere,
gorilla style.

When All Ball was killed by a car, Koko at first acted like
she didn't hear the news. Then she sobbed, and expressed
sadness at her loss. For a week she cried whenever anyone
talked about cats."
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Actually, she celebrated her 33rd BD this year (no I didn't know off
the top of my head, I googled and found her at http://www.koko.org/
Seems she's had several kittens through the years (pix at
http://koko.org/kidsclub/pictures/koko_kittens.html )

Sadly. like many catslaves, it seem that her first kitten got out of
the gorilla cage and was a victim of a traffic accident back. From
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~lilbun/ts/inner2.html

"Koko, the subject of the longest ongoing ape language study,
is a good example. Asked what she'd like for her birthday one
year, Koko requested a kitten. She named her little gray,
tailless companion All Ball, and carried her everywhere,
gorilla style.

When All Ball was killed by a car, Koko at first acted like
she didn't hear the news. Then she sobbed, and expressed
sadness at her loss. For a week she cried whenever anyone
talked about cats."
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

On 11 Aug 2004 04:50:44 GMT, itty (Sherry ) wrote:

I agree. I wonder how they explain away Koko, the signing (chimp?). She was in
the news yesterday, where she had "signed" that she had a toothache and they
got a tooth pulled. Remember the kitten she had? I wonder what happened to it.
IIRC, she is 20 years old or so now.

Actually, she celebrated her 33rd BD this year (no I didn't know off
the top of my head, I googled and found her at http://www.koko.org/
Seems she's had several kittens through the years (pix at
http://koko.org/kidsclub/pictures/koko_kittens.html )

Sadly. like many catslaves, it seem that her first kitten got out of
the gorilla cage and was a victim of a traffic accident back. From
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~lilbun/ts/inner2.html

"Koko, the subject of the longest ongoing ape language study,
is a good example. Asked what she'd like for her birthday one
year, Koko requested a kitten. She named her little gray,
tailless companion All Ball, and carried her everywhere,
gorilla style.

When All Ball was killed by a car, Koko at first acted like
she didn't hear the news. Then she sobbed, and expressed
sadness at her loss. For a week she cried whenever anyone
talked about cats."
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

"Koko, the subject of the longest ongoing ape language study,
is a good example. Asked what she'd like for her birthday one
year, Koko requested a kitten. She named her little gray,
tailless companion All Ball, and carried her everywhere,
gorilla style.

When All Ball was killed by a car, Koko at first acted like
she didn't hear the news. Then she sobbed, and expressed
sadness at her loss. For a week she cried whenever anyone
talked about cats."
--
Steve Touchstone,

And just think *now* about the refusal of the dumb hoomins Yowie described to
admit that the gorilla was smart enough to *know* that child needed help. Of
course it knew. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

Sherry