BAD NEWS at Caboodle Ranch

"Dan M" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:42:25 +0000, Christina Websell wrote:

Stop making excuses for them, Dan.
There were dead and decomposing cats there, or was it all made up?

That's the point, I don't know! I haven't been there for over a year. And
as I don't trust the organizations that lead the charge against the
ranch, I don't have a firm belief either that there were, or that there
weren't dead and decomposing cats there. I just don't have access to a
source of information that I trust. Therefore I have to rely on my
judgement of the character of the people involved.

Dan

And what do you think?
Is he likely to have been able to care for 700 cats on the funds available
to him, or did it all get horribly out of control since you went there? It
seems like it did.
I know that my funds will only only allow me to have two cats. It's not the
cost of food, it's the possible cost of veterinary treatment.
I still have a vacancy. Another one will come. I know it.
I kind of hope it will be a stinky boycat bad boy fighter so that I can
transform his life with a little snip.
Having said that. Boyfie was intact when he arrived and a bad boy fighter he
was not, neither did he ever spray and he did not smell.
But I kind of like the idea of having no-hoper tomcat. One of those no-one
loves.

Tweed

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bastette" wrote in message

It sounds to me as though Craig, the guy who runs the place, just
couldn't keep up. I remember wondering about that last year when I
read about it on the website. He's obviously a cat lover and wants
what's best for them, but I could not imagine how one man could do
all the work required to take care of 700 cats. He had to feed and
clean out litterboxes for them all, and food stations/sandboxes were
located all over the property. He also had to tend to sick cats by
himself. I guess a vet came in occasionally, when needed, but it
doesn't seem like that was often enough.

The place did look really nice, and it was great that the cats got to
roam around a large outdoor area freely. But apparently that wasn't
enough to provide good care for all of them. Seems to me like this
guy bit off a little more than he could chew.

Tweed: I don't think Dan is making excuses. He's reporting *what he
saw*. Remember, he was there - which makes him a better authority on
this subject than anyone else here!

Yes, but that was a while ago. If things have deteriorated since then (oh,
come on, what sort organisation could cope with 700 cats without plenty of
staff ?)

Look at the first 2 paragraphs of my post - I said exactly that. It
sounds like you're disagreeing with me, when in fact you're agreeing.

Craig obviously could *not* do all that work by himself. (Did he have
volunteers? I seem to remember that he didn't have any paid staff,
except for the vet who visited occasionally.

If it's proved that there were no dead/decomposing cats on the property,
they have a spay/neuter and a health program,

Neither will be proved because it's already been documented that there
*are* dead cats on the property and they didn't have a very comprehensive
spay/neuter program. One vet coming once in a while to perform some
neuter surgeries isn't enough - you know how fast cats can reproduce.

My point was just that while Craig might have started out fine, with
good intentions, and, at first, a good sanctuary, he clearly lost control
of the situation. I don't know whether he asked for help. I'm sure he
begged for money, but maybe he's not very good at fundraising. For that
you need someone who has experience or knowledge on how to get financial
backing. But to have someone like that, you probably have to pay them,
and it doesn't sound like he had enough money to pay someone.

I agree that whatever the verdict might be, it's sad.

--
Joyce

There is no alternative to being yourself.

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

"Bastette" wrote in message

It sounds to me as though Craig, the guy who runs the place, just
couldn't keep up. I remember wondering about that last year when I
read about it on the website. He's obviously a cat lover and wants
what's best for them, but I could not imagine how one man could do
all the work required to take care of 700 cats. He had to feed and
clean out litterboxes for them all, and food stations/sandboxes were
located all over the property. He also had to tend to sick cats by
himself. I guess a vet came in occasionally, when needed, but it
doesn't seem like that was often enough.

The place did look really nice, and it was great that the cats got to
roam around a large outdoor area freely. But apparently that wasn't
enough to provide good care for all of them. Seems to me like this
guy bit off a little more than he could chew.

Tweed: I don't think Dan is making excuses. He's reporting *what he
saw*. Remember, he was there - which makes him a better authority on
this subject than anyone else here!

Yes, but that was a while ago. If things have deteriorated since then
(oh,
come on, what sort organisation could cope with 700 cats without plenty
of
staff ?)

Look at the first 2 paragraphs of my post - I said exactly that. It
sounds like you're disagreeing with me, when in fact you're agreeing.

Craig obviously could *not* do all that work by himself. (Did he have
volunteers? I seem to remember that he didn't have any paid staff,
except for the vet who visited occasionally.

If it's proved that there were no dead/decomposing cats on the property,
they have a spay/neuter and a health program,

Neither will be proved because it's already been documented that there
*are* dead cats on the property and they didn't have a very comprehensive
spay/neuter program. One vet coming once in a while to perform some
neuter surgeries isn't enough - you know how fast cats can reproduce.

My point was just that while Craig might have started out fine, with
good intentions, and, at first, a good sanctuary, he clearly lost control
of the situation. I don't know whether he asked for help. I'm sure he
begged for money, but maybe he's not very good at fundraising. For that
you need someone who has experience or knowledge on how to get financial
backing. But to have someone like that, you probably have to pay them,
and it doesn't sound like he had enough money to pay someone.

I agree that whatever the verdict might be, it's sad.

--

He should have asked for help from somewhere, anywhere.
There is no excuse to have dead/decomposing cats on your property whilst
claiming to give rescued cats a good home.

I cannot get away from thinking about those dead/composing cats. Were they
ill, or old and never got the veterinary treatment they needed and he just
let them die and ignored them?
Yes, he did. Apparently.

He took on far too much than than he could cope with IMO, and as much as I
would like to save every cat in the world I cannot do it and have the sense
to realise it.
He should have asked for help sooner before they were dead cats there when
the ASPA jumped on him.

"Catlady" wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 7:24 pm, "Matthew" wrote:
You all remember this florida rescue center we talked about in this group
a
long time ago posted on the ASPCA website

Since Monday, February 26, the ASPCA's Field Investigations and Response
(FIR) team has been in northern Florida managing the removal of hundreds
of
cats from an overwhelmed cat sanctuary known as Caboodle Ranch. We joined
the effort at the request of Madison County Animal Control and the Madison
County Sheriff's Office, which obtained a search warrant following a
thorough investigation of the sanctuary that spanned more than a year.

The cats were found living in overcrowded and filthy conditions. Many are
exhibiting signs of severe neglect and appear to be suffering from upper
respiratory conditions and eye infections, among a host of other medical
issues. Some sick cats were housed together but not separated by their
afflictions, allowing for the unfettered transmission of various diseases.
Responders have found numerous deceased and decomposing cats on the
property, as well as multiple shallow grave sites.

"This is a tragic situation. Caboodle Ranch was clearly overwhelmed with
hundreds of cats in dire need of medical treatment," says Tim Rickey,
Senior
Director of the ASPCA's FIR team. "The sanctuary had no adoption or
spay/neuter programs in place to manage its population."

With nearly 700 cats already removed from the property, this is the
largest
number of cats the ASPCA has ever seized in the course of an animal
cruelty
investigation-and efforts to locate them all are ongoing. The rescued
animals have been relocated to a temporary shelter in Jacksonville, where
veterinary, sheltering, and behavior teams are assessing, diagnosing,
treating and caring for them.

ASPCA responders are struck by the stark difference between the version of
the Caboodle Ranch presented on its website and the reality on the ground.
"There are some extremely sick animals," says one ASPCA volunteer. "Most
are
not at death's door, but there are very, very few who are completely
healthy." She also notes that the majority of the cats are friendly and
eager for human contact: "Four hundred of them just walked right into our
carriers."

More than 100 responders are assisting the ASPCA with the investigation,
including staff and volunteers from the University of Florida
(Gainesville)
College of Veterinary Medicine, the Maples Center for Forensic Medicine
and
the following organizations:

Atlanta Humane Society (Atlanta, GA)
Bay Area Disaster Animal Response Team (Belleair Bluffs, FL)
Cat Depot (Sarasota, FL)
Florida State Animal Response Coalition (Bushnell, FL)
Good Mews Animal Foundation (Marietta, GA)
Humane Society of Broward County (Fort Lauderdale, FL)
International Fund for Animal Welfare (Yarmouth Port, MA)
McKamey Animal Care and Adoption Center (Chattanooga, TN)
PetSmart Charities, Inc. (Phoenix, AZ)
RedRover (Sacramento, CA)
Sumter DART (Bushnell, FL)

The founder and operator of Caboodle Ranch, Craig Grant, has been arrested
and charged with one count of felony animal cruelty, three counts of
cruelty
to animals and one count of scheming to defraud. The cats are currently
considered evidence in the criminal case, but the ASPCA will work on
placement of the animals once their final disposition has been determined
by
the prosecutor.

My boy only has to make a few decisions. Whether to go out and look for
rats or whether it is too cold to do that atm.
Or whether he would like to go to his bedroom with his duvet or spend time
with me if I decide to light the woodburner. Or whether he wants to sit on
my knee the minute I sit down.
He was rescued from wandering too far from wherever he came from, his
original owner couldn't be bothered to neuter him. Did I want him?
No.
Am I glad I kept him? x 100

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2012 14:43:59 GMT, Dan M wrote:

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:56:51 -0500, Matthew wrote:

If he is guilty than the law will take over If not there will be a ton
of supporters that will step up and help out. Did you see the list of
people on the ASPCA website that stepped up to help.

No, I didn't. I'll take a look.

Dan

I called the ASPCA and spoke to a nice lady and I explained that many
cat lovers were very unhappy with the way the ASPCA handled this and
used it as a fund-raising tool. I mentioned that people who had been
at Caboodle did not see it in a bad state and that it appeared that
the video was cherry picked to make the place look bad.

She listened to my pleasant rant and mentioned that I was not the
first person to call and that she was forwarding the concerns to the
higher-ups. I guess it helps since I'm a donor as well.

I suggest sending emails and phone calls. It looks like PETA was
opposing a Florida law that would have shelters hand off cats to
rescue organizations and wanted to discredit a big one in order to
stop that law. PETA apparently believes that cats shouldn't live
outside or in no-kill shelters. PETA is apparently a bit insane and
staged this whole thing.

I hope you are right, but I doubt it.
If the ASPA moved in they would had a reason to do so.
I cannot get away from thinking about the dead/decomposing cats that are
alleged to be found there
It will keep me awake.

On 3/10/2012 10:02 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2012 14:43:59 GMT, Dan wrote:

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:56:51 -0500, Matthew wrote:

If he is guilty than the law will take over If not there will be a ton
of supporters that will step up and help out. Did you see the list of
people on the ASPCA website that stepped up to help.

No, I didn't. I'll take a look.

Dan

I called the ASPCA and spoke to a nice lady and I explained that many
cat lovers were very unhappy with the way the ASPCA handled this and
used it as a fund-raising tool. I mentioned that people who had been
at Caboodle did not see it in a bad state and that it appeared that
the video was cherry picked to make the place look bad.

She listened to my pleasant rant and mentioned that I was not the
first person to call and that she was forwarding the concerns to the
higher-ups. I guess it helps since I'm a donor as well.

I suggest sending emails and phone calls. It looks like PETA was
opposing a Florida law that would have shelters hand off cats to
rescue organizations and wanted to discredit a big one in order to
stop that law. PETA apparently believes that cats shouldn't live
outside or in no-kill shelters. PETA is apparently a bit insane and
staged this whole thing.

I hope you are right, but I doubt it.
If the ASPA moved in they would had a reason to do so.
I cannot get away from thinking about the dead/decomposing cats that are
alleged to be found there
It will keep me awake.




The dead are beyond suffering, it's the one with bone showing in a wound
and the sick and starving they found - that's what will keep me awake.


--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, created by "Yowie", maintained by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.net/rpcablog/

Email: L(dot)T(dot)Crews(at)comcast(dot)net

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
On 3/10/2012 10:02 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2012 14:43:59 GMT, Dan wrote:

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:56:51 -0500, Matthew wrote:

If he is guilty than the law will take over If not there will be a
ton
of supporters that will step up and help out. Did you see the list
of
people on the ASPCA website that stepped up to help.

No, I didn't. I'll take a look.

Dan

I called the ASPCA and spoke to a nice lady and I explained that many
cat lovers were very unhappy with the way the ASPCA handled this and
used it as a fund-raising tool. I mentioned that people who had been
at Caboodle did not see it in a bad state and that it appeared that
the video was cherry picked to make the place look bad.

She listened to my pleasant rant and mentioned that I was not the
first person to call and that she was forwarding the concerns to the
higher-ups. I guess it helps since I'm a donor as well.

I suggest sending emails and phone calls. It looks like PETA was
opposing a Florida law that would have shelters hand off cats to
rescue organizations and wanted to discredit a big one in order to
stop that law. PETA apparently believes that cats shouldn't live
outside or in no-kill shelters. PETA is apparently a bit insane and
staged this whole thing.

I hope you are right, but I doubt it.
If the ASPA moved in they would had a reason to do so.
I cannot get away from thinking about the dead/decomposing cats that are
alleged to be found there
It will keep me awake.




The dead are beyond suffering, it's the one with bone showing in a wound
and the sick and starving they found - that's what will keep me awake.


I did love the idea of that ranch where rescued kitties could wander at
will. However when something seems to be too good to be true, it often is.
As I said, rescue can get out of control. As I found when I went to a
disgustingly stinky house here at the time I decided I might not want
Boyfie. Well that changed my mind about keeping him for sure.
That was a good thing, but it did make me wonder about cat rescuers.
I have never, ever, smelt anything like it when she opened her door.
Whether or not I wanted him, no way would I have allowed him to be rescued
to there.
As my grandmother used to say "it stunk enough to blind you"

So I kept him and how lucky I am. He's very nearly the perfect cat, apart
from a couple of faults ;-)








..

.. . .

On Saturday, March 10, 2012 11:02:15 PM UTC-5, Christina Websell wrote:
"dgk" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2012 14:43:59 GMT, Dan M wrote:

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:56:51 -0500, Matthew wrote:

If he is guilty than the law will take over If not there will be a ton
of supporters that will step up and help out. Did you see the list of
people on the ASPCA website that stepped up to help.

No, I didn't. I'll take a look.

Dan

I called the ASPCA and spoke to a nice lady and I explained that many
cat lovers were very unhappy with the way the ASPCA handled this and
used it as a fund-raising tool. I mentioned that people who had been
at Caboodle did not see it in a bad state and that it appeared that
the video was cherry picked to make the place look bad.

She listened to my pleasant rant and mentioned that I was not the
first person to call and that she was forwarding the concerns to the
higher-ups. I guess it helps since I'm a donor as well.

I suggest sending emails and phone calls. It looks like PETA was
opposing a Florida law that would have shelters hand off cats to
rescue organizations and wanted to discredit a big one in order to
stop that law. PETA apparently believes that cats shouldn't live
outside or in no-kill shelters. PETA is apparently a bit insane and
staged this whole thing.

I hope you are right, but I doubt it.
If the ASPA moved in they would had a reason to do so.
I cannot get away from thinking about the dead/decomposing cats that are
alleged to be found there
It will keep me awake.



.. . . perhaps far into the thickness of the Florida, jungle-like forest the trouble hunters forged, with machetes in hand, and found the wasted bodies of a couple animals that did/do die on a regular basis . . .

Guess what ! EVEN PEOPLE DIE on a regular basis.

The trouble hunters said they even found "shallow" graves, and oh, sht, there were no marble, grave stones on the graves . . . cause for a lynch mob, and lots of slander and lies right there . . . “PETA” and others of the same ilk are a death cult. Could you do that sort of thing day in and day out: just kill kill kill kill kill day after day and day after day: HUH ! Could you? . . . and lie about it besides . . . ? These killers are sadistic and cruel, so donot waste your sympathy on them, they deserve nothing but the wages we pay them . . . They are killers, not heroes ! ! ! They love what they do or they wouldnot do it . . . Would you? Could you?!

"Judith Latham" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Adrian wrote:
"Christina Websell" wrote:
"Amelia T Cat" wrote in message
...

Stop making excuses for them, Dan. There were dead and decomposing
cats there, or was it all made up?

You weren't there Christina so you don't know! Stories like that are
made up all the time, it is obvious there is a vendetta against Caboodle
Ranch.

I've just been on the Caboodle website. I agree, I think it was done out
out spite and viciousness. I wouldn't want the people who have done that
to have any power over any animal or human.

Judith

So both of you believe it is all not true?
I think it is.
It's very sad.

On Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:23:08 AM UTC-5, The Catlady wrote:
On Mar 10, 7:56*am, Cheryl wrote:
How can I know what to believe? I don't know you or anyone who posts
here personally, and even if I did, I wouldn't know if you've been
fooled or not. I don't accept news reports that cite only one side of
things, even the that side ISNT'T a group I've caught out in lies
before. I certainly don't accept videotape - one group I know of using
PETA-type approaches to contentious issues had videotapes thrown out of
court because experts said that they'd been altered so many times they
couldn't swear to what was there originally. I certainly don't accept
eyewitness testimony from people who go in undercover with an agenda,
and with their minds already made up - even when such testimony ISN'T
filtered through media, which sometimes just wants the most scandalous
allegations possible - blood sells.

It'll go to court. The legal system, in its slow way, will come to a
determination of facts. And possibly, months down the road, I'll get
some idea of what really happened, if those particular courts put their
decisions and mutually agreed statements of facts etc. online.

It won't do much good to the cats, though.

I tend to prefer to donate closer to home, where I don't need to depend
on the media for news about the shelters.

--
Cheryl

Go ahead. Keep your head in the sand. The report from Dr. Levy was
done after they were invited in. The witness statements documented on
the Facebook page are not from undercover people. They are from people
that went to the ranch to bring a cat there or to volunteeer and were
shocked when they saw that the reality was quite different than the
bait and switch Caboodle Ranch played to unsuspecting donors. Use
your head. Do you really think that such a massive operation that is
costing upwards of 3 MIILLION DOLLARS and involves numerous agencies
is going to be predicated on one video? Do you want to disregard the
word of this veterinarian who is in the trenches right now and is
confirming what is being reported?
http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florid...e-of-700-cats-

It IS just easier to look away and deny what's happening, and this is
exactly why these cats have suffered as horribly as they have and why
so many ended up dead and in dumpsters or left to decompose out in the
open. Apologists and deniers kill.



.. . . speaking of truth: go to the victim's website for more of this same:

"Wounds
Sun, 11 Mar 2012 02:46:41 GMT
Hope seems to be dwindling for the return of the Caboodle cats back to Craig and Caboodle Ranch. The ASPCA is going to insure that that will never happen. They're not going to lose. They can't now... think of how bad it would look for them to return the cats back to their home after what they've done.

The latest reports of 100s of cats with open wounds is proof they don't plan to. 100s of cats with open wounds... This is new, because three days into the raid on Caboodle Ranch, the ASPCA stated in article for the Tallahassee Democrat that the majority of the animals were not in dire need for immediate medical attention. So what happened?

Craig would never let 100s of cats walk around with open wounds. Dr. Lewis, who was at Caboodle Ranch one week before the raid, would never let that happen, animal control would never let that happen, and PETA, who was there for 5 months... certainly they wouldn't have let that happen. (Would they?) Yet somehow it did. That's what's being reported now.


An ASPCA volunteer was quoted on their website saying that four hundred cats just walked right into their carriers. Really? Well even if four hundred (mostly feral) cats did walk right into their carriers, what about the 300 that didn't? The ones that were terrified and ran for their lives... Into and under buildings, up trees, through the brush and prickers, over and under gates and fences, because they were being chased by a calvary of people who had suddenly raided their home.


The ASPCA were trapping cats for three days at Caboodle Ranch, so apparently the cats didn't make it too easy for them. It's very hard to believe that every one of those few hundred cats came away from that ordeal completely unscathed.

There was a cat on the PETA video with blood on it. The blood had leaked from stitches. Stitches are what's given to cats that have wounds at Caboodle Ranch. These stitches are given by Dr. Lewis... The Caboodle vet that everyone seems to keep forgetting about.


The ASPCA would never accept responsibility for any wrong-doing though, because it'll make them look bad. If a cat was wounded because it was chased.... we'll never know about it, will we?


That may be speculation, but previous facts given to you through these posts, can easily be proven true:
The dirty (boarded up) trailer and refrigerator that were not in use, but were shown in the PETA video... They're still available on the property for you to see.
The three-legged cat on the PETA video... He came to the ranch that way. Somebody sent him from West Virginia. Easily proven.
The cat with one eye... He has veterinary records that show he was being treated.
The cats with Upper Respiratory Infection... they were being treated.
The cats were never confined to buildings as PETA suggested. Multitudes of video and photos prove it.
Caboodle Ranch was inspected by animal control every three months. Here's a statement online showing no violations in March 2011. They can be contacted for additional reports.
Animal control has documented proof that Caboodle Ranch was conforming to new EAH regulations. So how could it be said these cats were living in deplorable conditions?
Craig's daughter-in-law tried to share some of this information (and more) on the ASPCA's Facebook page to defend him, and they banned her. They have no intention on listening to these facts... facts that can backed up with proof. Their mind is made up because they'll look bad otherwise.

It's important to remember that the wheels to shut down Caboodle Ranch were set in motion by a handful of people who don't like Craig."

continued at Craig's site very very long . . .

It just seems all the leaders/government of The United States Of America have become death mongers: the answer to every problem: "Kill it, before it has babies" . . .