declaw or not to declaw?

"Jo Firey" wrote in message
. ..

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


wrote:
Annie wrote:

"Is Declawing really that cruel?"
http://network.bestfriends.org/Blogs...il.aspx?bp=325
"Declawing cats is a very hot topic for debate. For many years now,
animal rights people have lied and deceived the public into believing
that declawing cats is the most inhumane and horrible procedure on the
planet. The truth is, is a common surgical procedure done under
anesthesia and if done correctly, there will not be any lasting
effects..." Then why is it illegal in almost all of Europe? PETA doesn't
have
*that* much reach...

Just one more proof (along with lack of universal health care) that the
U.S. is not nearly so "civilized" as it likes to pretend!


Who is pretending to be civilized? I'm not pretending to be civilized.
Anyone else here with such pretenses? Speak up!

We are savages one and all!


(getting a little tired of having several hundred million people all
lumped into one lot and then criticized)

Jo

*Thank* you, Jo. I just dinged Tweed for doing just that - but at least she
has the excuse of living in the UK and not *seeing in person* that we're not
all barbarians.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Granby" wrote in message
...
I am so glad someone called this one for what it is. This is a subject
that will never be solved and I would bet most anything that someone
looked up the history and decided to start all the anger and sparring all
over again. Thank you Matthew for stopping it before it blew up again.

I believe it *can* be solved if all Americans on here when they went to
TED asked them if they declaw. If they say "yes" ask them why. Tell them
that America is the only place in the world where furniture is more
important than cats, give them a guilt trip and threaten to take your
business away from them if they admit to it.
And keep doing it as you change vets. Flood the internet about how cruel
declawing is and give your vet a hard time if s/he will do it.
My vet certainly wouldn't unless my cat had a nail bed infection that
could not be resolved any other way.
We do not remove the claws from our cats here. We are intelligent enough
to realise that they come with them installed and if you don't like it,
don't have a cat.

Why thank you, Tweed, for calling my entire country, and me, stupid - I
wouldn't have known otherwise!

Hugs,

CatNipped

"hopitus" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 11:22 am, "CatNipped" wrote:
wrote in message

...



Will in New Haven wrote:

I am rather uncaring about furniture. In fact, the last thing a woman
said when she dumped me was "Bill, you are fifty and you don't even
have any furniture you care about." I was really puzzled by that
because I didn't think I SHOULD care about furniture.

Will, this gave me a good laugh. Not only because she thought you
should
care about furniture, but that she thought it was somehow related to
your
*age*. Not only were you some Neanderthal who didn't care about
furniture,
but, OMG, you were *fifty* and didn't care about furniture! boggle
The
two of you were clearly not a good match and I think she did you a
favor.

My ex once said, in a fit of upset and without the slightest trace of
irony, "I'm 37 years old and I don't even have matching plates!" This,
by
the way, was an accusation against me, because I was the one who made
most
of the money, so it was evidently my responsibility to provide us with
the respectability of matching dishware...

Joyce

I have matching plates - and I *WISH* I now had the money I spent on
them!
They're sitting in a cupboard gathering dust and we're trying, often
unsuccessfully, to feed ourselves and our clowder! Circumstances change
quickly and even if you have the money to spend on "things" it might
often
be better to save it instead!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Well, not if you buy things that hold their value well. Vehicles do
not - example.
I have never done this but have many friends/relatives who do this
frequently....
get all the table service that matches (this only applies if it was
pricey when
you bought it; I assume it was) together, like on a large table, and
take pics
of it at different angles (some do it with their cellphones - warning:
bad graphic
quality for internet display!. Then pick out the best appearing shot
and put it
on EBay or CraigsList (I find CraigsList attracts a lot of trolls,
IMHO) or other
internet auction or sale website. Ask your friends about this idea
(close
friends). Ask Ben. You can always buy more china when things get
better.
People are selling off all kindsa stuff not just houses. But there are
still plenty
folks out there who scan these websites for goodies they want and can
afford.

We tried that, but it's not a "pretty" china - it's "Aunt Rhody" goose (with
every possible accessory from gravy boat to soup cups to sugar bowls).
Nobody seems to want it! ; We've already re-sold all the books we had in
the house, and lots of electronic "toys" - unfortunately, used is used and
you just don't get that much for used items.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"hopitus" wrote in message
...

Final hopitus gem of questionable wisdom: there is a lot more b.s. to
be annoyed
about lately than Tweeds's opinion of US legal system. Former colonist
Hopitus
says, "Rowdous takes no offense, Tweed"
. If you were not across the pond he
would give you a "love" bite. He has a bad temper for more than one
reason".

I know, and Tweed and I have been friends for a long, long time here - it's
just, every once in a while, I get defensive about US bashing (gawd knows we
do it enough to ourselves!).

Hugs,

CatNipped

hopitus wrote:

On Mar 31, 11:50 am, "CatNipped" wrote:

"Jo Firey" wrote in message

(getting a little tired of having several hundred million people
all lumped into one lot and then criticized)

*Thank* you, Jo. I just dinged Tweed for doing just that - but at
least she has the excuse of living in the UK and not *seeing in
person* that we're not all barbarians.

You have the right, Laurie, to be annoyed by US bashing.
Sometimes when communicating with Brit friends I log in as
"former colonist". I have said nothing to date re Tweed's
opinion - which she also has a perfect right to - because as
Evelyn pointed out in one post - US is the only First World power
with no health care options for millions of its citizens...a
really sore spot with me and one notch above the declawing
obscenity to cats issue. I like Tweed because she does not mince
her words even though I don't agree with some. Final hopitus gem
of questionable wisdom: there is a lot more b.s. to be annoyed
about lately than Tweeds's opinion of US legal system. Former
colonist Hopitus says, "Rowdous takes no offense, Tweed"

Thank *you*, Hopitus. Agreed, 100%! I am also Not Offended by Tweed's
comments, as I agree with what she has said.

To those who feel personally offended: Christina isn't insulting us
as individuals. She is pointing out *facts*. And she does know us, as
well as any of us can know each other over the 'net.

I am personally enraged that we have 45 million people without any kind
of health insurance, and are the only wealthy, Western nation in the
world that does. So frankly, I'm glad to hear from Europeans, Canadians,
and others who are critical of our system. Our system is completely
broken.

Lots of Americans read this newsgroup, and have a high regard for the
non-Americans who post here. So my hope is that maybe some of that
sensible thinking will rub off on anyone who still thinks it's acceptable
that millions of people go without health care. Sheesh, it's not some
radical communist plot that only freaks on the fringes of society people
believe in. Most people from very mainstream, capitalist countries around
the world consider universal health care to be non-controversial, a no-
brainer, business as usual. For the record, most of the USA'ers who post
here *do* recognize that something is very wrong with our health care
system. I've seen it posted here many times.

I agree with Tweed's comments about declawing too, but I'm sure she
doesn't think that any of our regular American posters think that's OK.
It's just a fact that it is still legal here.

(But while I'm on the subject, may I take a moment to give a cheer for
West Hollywood, California - the first city in the country to pass an
ordinance against cat-declawing - whee! Those Limousine Liberals are at
it again. )

Joyce

--
To send email to this address, remove the triple-X from my user name.

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:05:05 +0100, Annie wrote:

i need to declaw my little mitzi because she is tearing up
the furniture but my sister says thats cruel

the vet says its fine and i believe him over my sister
because she is one of those peta nuts who puts the welfare of
animals over that of people

annie

Do some research into the surgery. It *is* a very extreme form of
mutiliation. And if a declawed cat should ever escape from the house (no
matter how careful you are it can and does happen) that cat would have no
means of defense and would not be able to climb trees, etc to escape
danger.

It is also known to produce severe psychological stress (yes, cat's DO
have psychological reactions, just like people do). Declawing a cat is a
very lasting, very inhumane thing to do. A lot of vets do it for the
money. Some vets do it even though they are opposed to the procedure. The
vet I used to go to in California would first try to talk a potential
customer out of the surgery, but would do it if the customer insisted. His
rationale was that he would rather do it himself and know that it was
being done carefully by someone who knew the dangers than run the risk of
it being done by a money-hungry quack who was just concerned about
getting it done quickly.

There are other ways to keep furniture safe. Double-sided tape, etc. To
consider declawing a cat just to protect your furniture would be akin to
getting a permanent catheter run into a baby's urethra just to keep it
from peeing on things while you're changing the diaper. If your furniture
is important enough to you that you'd consider harming your cat to protect
the furniture, you really ought to find a better home for the cat.

Why thank you, Tweed, for calling my entire country, and me, stupid - I
wouldn't have known otherwise!

Hugs,

CatNipped

I don't believe she was referring to the entire country, just to those who
would get their cats declawed. And in that assessment I would have to
agree with her.

Dan

"Daniel Mahoney" wrote in message
news
Why thank you, Tweed, for calling my entire country, and me, stupid - I
wouldn't have known otherwise!

Hugs,

CatNipped

I don't believe she was referring to the entire country, just to those who
would get their cats declawed. And in that assessment I would have to
agree with her.

Dan

Dan, this is something that Tweed and I have been over before. I don't mind
when someone has objections to a specific problem - but I do mind the
sweeping generalizations that she tends to make (re, what you snipped "Tell
them that America is the only place in the world where furniture is more
important than cats" and "*WE* [emphasis mine] are intelligent enough to
realise that they come with them installed and if you don't like it, don't
have a cat.").

She may not mean to be mean, but a lot of times it comes across like that.

Hugs,

CatNipped

wrote in message
...

Joyce, I noticed in a few thread that you were not replying directly to me.
Have I done something to offend you? I don't remember ever being in an
argument with you, but I'm at the age where I'm having more and more senior
moments.

Hugs,

CatNipped

wrote in news:47f134e1$0$36405
:



here *do* recognize that something is very wrong with our health care
system. I've seen it posted here many times.

I agree with Tweed's comments about declawing too, but I'm sure she
doesn't think that any of our regular American posters think that's OK.
It's just a fact that it is still legal here.

(But while I'm on the subject, may I take a moment to give a cheer for
West Hollywood, California - the first city in the country to pass an
ordinance against cat-declawing - whee! Those Limousine Liberals are at
it again. )

Joyce




This comment:

"Just one more proof (along with lack of universal health care) that the
U.S. is not nearly so "civilized" as it likes to pretend!"

was posted by someone who constantly bashes certain groups. The problem
is you can't single out one or two things and consider an entire society
based on them. You could just as well assume europeans are animals based
on their proclivity for attacking each other at sporting events. And
when it comes to gov sponsored medicine, while I agree we have a health-
care mess in the US it does not look like the gov-med countries are doing
much better as witnessed to things posted in this very forum. In the end
the tone of this comment said more than the content. I wont touch on the
anti-male garbage this same person posts because I have in the past and
not too many people seem to care. And BTW: most americans I know never
pretend to be civilized. To me "civilized" is a code word for P.C.