if it's not one thing, it's another

I've written before, but brief synopsis: Carey, 10.75 yo tortie. Became
paralyzed April 2002, regained use with meds (continuing) and time. Sees a
neurologist. Narrowed down diagnosis is seizure-type activity/brain tumor.
Started at illness by attacking me if there was a noise/voice of a certain
pitch, switched that attacking to the dogs. Has sucked on dogs obsessively,
with a 4 year gap, since she arrived at 8 weeks old.

Meds are prednisone 2.5 mg/day, phenobarbital 1/2 pill (16mg?) 2x/day. The
phenobarbital replaced valium. Since going on the phenorbarbital, no attacks
have occurred (about 4 months now). THAT is the GOOD thing.

Carey initially was a 9# cat, now just 7# (was lighter, but gained weight back
- hooray!). Demand for meds high, appetite adequate.

Adequate rather than great due to changes in food due to borderline CRF. Was
great. Will still inhale a whole roasted chicken if given the chance! ;-D

The problem - increasingly problematic urination. we have 3 boxes - 2 A&H Easy
Flush, 1 crystals, for 2 cats. She'll use any of them. they are kept
amazingly clean. Still, she urinates in strange places - the top of my dryer,
a bowl, a box, in my shoes (which have ALWAYS been left all around the house as
long as she's been here), on a piece of plastic or plastic bags, on firewood -
very random surfaces.

We have scat mats on the leather furniture, and spraying the family room sofas
with citrus spray on a nightly basis MOSTLY keeps her from urinating on them.
I've recently thrown out throw pillows, wicker baskets of various sorts, etc,
due to this problem.

She and other cat (Skipjack, 2) mostly get along very well, sleeping nested,
sharing food and bowls and boxes and beds. They get rowdy and a little over
the top once in awhile (her - 1/2 his size), but overall very good for each
other. She adores the dogs and they are incredibly tolerant of her bizarre
behaviors.

I know the pred and the phenobarb can both increase urination and so does the
CRF, but I'm trying to figure out how to convince her to be able to live in the
whole house and use just her boxes when she needs to urinate - finding it in
weird places is pretty unpleasant. She has no problem using her boxes. I've
tried to make her a deal, that she MAY urinate on the dryer if she promises not
to on other stuff ;-D So far she hasn't signed on the dotted line.

Any thoughts? I love her to pieces, but this is a challenge to live with and I
don't think shutting her in a room is great quality of life.



Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

Any thoughts? I love her to pieces, but this is a challenge to live with and
I
don't think shutting her in a room is great quality of life.

Hmm, a tough one. Urinating on items that smell like you is marking. It
generally means they feel insecure, threatened emotionally by another animal or
don't like something that you did. Urinating out in the open means they are
sick and want you to know that. Maybe she doesn't feel well? And maybe the
other cat is playing with her more roughly than she would like? Just my two
cents.

Any thoughts? I love her to pieces, but this is a challenge to live with and
I
don't think shutting her in a room is great quality of life.

Hmm, a tough one. Urinating on items that smell like you is marking. It
generally means they feel insecure, threatened emotionally by another animal or
don't like something that you did. Urinating out in the open means they are
sick and want you to know that. Maybe she doesn't feel well? And maybe the
other cat is playing with her more roughly than she would like? Just my two
cents.

Laura R writes:

Perhaps she's suffering from urgent urination due to UTIs?

She gets full bloodworkups and no UTI's.

I'd be suspecting
the CRF as the cause here. Have you tried more boxes stashed around
the house? Maybe she just has to pee too badly to make it to a
litterbox...

I suspect the CRF as well. I can't put litterboxes too many places because of
the dogs. I'll add another in one room though. Most of her inappropriate
urination is within FEET of the litterboxes though, and NOT on the other level
of the house, so I don't think it's a situation of not being able to make it.

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

Laura R writes:

Perhaps she's suffering from urgent urination due to UTIs?

She gets full bloodworkups and no UTI's.

I'd be suspecting
the CRF as the cause here. Have you tried more boxes stashed around
the house? Maybe she just has to pee too badly to make it to a
litterbox...

I suspect the CRF as well. I can't put litterboxes too many places because of
the dogs. I'll add another in one room though. Most of her inappropriate
urination is within FEET of the litterboxes though, and NOT on the other level
of the house, so I don't think it's a situation of not being able to make it.

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

Mary writes:

Hmm, a tough one. Urinating on items that smell like you is marking. It
generally means they feel insecure, threatened emotionally by another animal
or
don't like something that you did.

Well, she's a little basket-case of a cat, so who knows what she's thinking?
;-D She doesn't urinate on my shoes upstairs, only downstairs, and not if they
are on an elevated surface (a table, desk, etc) rather than the floor. She is
definitely the pet in charge of the other 3.

Urinating out in the open means they are
sick and want you to know that. Maybe she doesn't feel well?

I think that's kind of assumed, with all of her problems. Still, she bounces
around and doesn't have any identifyable pain.

And maybe the
other cat is playing with her more roughly than she would like?

Hah! She's the one who tackles HIM! She stalks him, grabs him, and when he
tries to get away, tackles him some more.

Thanks for your thoughts though - this is a tough one!

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

Mary writes:

Hmm, a tough one. Urinating on items that smell like you is marking. It
generally means they feel insecure, threatened emotionally by another animal
or
don't like something that you did.

Well, she's a little basket-case of a cat, so who knows what she's thinking?
;-D She doesn't urinate on my shoes upstairs, only downstairs, and not if they
are on an elevated surface (a table, desk, etc) rather than the floor. She is
definitely the pet in charge of the other 3.

Urinating out in the open means they are
sick and want you to know that. Maybe she doesn't feel well?

I think that's kind of assumed, with all of her problems. Still, she bounces
around and doesn't have any identifyable pain.

And maybe the
other cat is playing with her more roughly than she would like?

Hah! She's the one who tackles HIM! She stalks him, grabs him, and when he
tries to get away, tackles him some more.

Thanks for your thoughts though - this is a tough one!

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa 03 Jun 2004 21:46:05 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, J1Boss
) said,

The problem - increasingly problematic urination. we have 3 boxes - 2
A&H Easy
Flush, 1 crystals, for 2 cats. She'll use any of them. they are kept
amazingly clean. Still, she urinates in strange places - the top of my
dryer,
a bowl, a box, in my shoes (which have ALWAYS been left all around the
house as
long as she's been here), on a piece of plastic or plastic bags, on
firewood -
very random surfaces.

We have scat mats on the leather furniture, and spraying the family room
sofas
with citrus spray on a nightly basis MOSTLY keeps her from urinating on
them.
I've recently thrown out throw pillows, wicker baskets of various sorts,
etc,
due to this problem.

She and other cat (Skipjack, 2) mostly get along very well, sleeping
nested,
sharing food and bowls and boxes and beds. They get rowdy and a little
over
the top once in awhile (her - 1/2 his size), but overall very good for
each
other. She adores the dogs and they are incredibly tolerant of her
bizarre
behaviors.

I know the pred and the phenobarb can both increase urination and so
does the
CRF, but I'm trying to figure out how to convince her to be able to live
in the
whole house and use just her boxes when she needs to urinate - finding
it in
weird places is pretty unpleasant. She has no problem using her boxes.
I've
tried to make her a deal, that she MAY urinate on the dryer if she
promises not
to on other stuff ;-D So far she hasn't signed on the dotted line.

Any thoughts? I love her to pieces, but this is a challenge to live
with and I
don't think shutting her in a room is great quality of life.


Perhaps she's suffering from urgent urination due to UTIs? Jacob was
getting them fairly regularly for a time, and that was the only time
his urination was outside the box. What happens if she's put on an
antibiotic like zeniquin? Does the behavior stop? I'd be suspecting
the CRF as the cause here. Have you tried more boxes stashed around
the house? Maybe she just has to pee too badly to make it to a
litterbox...

Laura
--
It's always best to eliminate the most obvious cause so getting the kitty
checked for urinary tract problems would be my first inclination.

I haven't dealt with a cat with seizures (aside from giving a friend' cat
his meds when they were away for the weekend) but my son was being treated
for seizure disorder for 12 years. The meds didn't always totally stop the
seizure activity. When he had seizures while taking Phenobarbital he lost
bladder control during the seizure. If there is no urinary tract problem
I'd wonder if maybe the Phenobarb isn't stopping all seizure activity. Maybe
a higher dose or different medication?

W

"Laura R." wrote in message
.. .
circa 03 Jun 2004 21:46:05 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, J1Boss
) said,

The problem - increasingly problematic urination. we have 3 boxes - 2
A&H Easy
Flush, 1 crystals, for 2 cats. She'll use any of them. they are kept
amazingly clean. Still, she urinates in strange places - the top of my
dryer,
a bowl, a box, in my shoes (which have ALWAYS been left all around the
house as
long as she's been here), on a piece of plastic or plastic bags, on
firewood -
very random surfaces.

We have scat mats on the leather furniture, and spraying the family room
sofas
with citrus spray on a nightly basis MOSTLY keeps her from urinating on
them.
I've recently thrown out throw pillows, wicker baskets of various sorts,
etc,
due to this problem.

She and other cat (Skipjack, 2) mostly get along very well, sleeping
nested,
sharing food and bowls and boxes and beds. They get rowdy and a little
over
the top once in awhile (her - 1/2 his size), but overall very good for
each
other. She adores the dogs and they are incredibly tolerant of her
bizarre
behaviors.

I know the pred and the phenobarb can both increase urination and so
does the
CRF, but I'm trying to figure out how to convince her to be able to live
in the
whole house and use just her boxes when she needs to urinate - finding
it in
weird places is pretty unpleasant. She has no problem using her boxes.
I've
tried to make her a deal, that she MAY urinate on the dryer if she
promises not
to on other stuff ;-D So far she hasn't signed on the dotted line.

Any thoughts? I love her to pieces, but this is a challenge to live
with and I
don't think shutting her in a room is great quality of life.


Perhaps she's suffering from urgent urination due to UTIs? Jacob was
getting them fairly regularly for a time, and that was the only time
his urination was outside the box. What happens if she's put on an
antibiotic like zeniquin? Does the behavior stop? I'd be suspecting
the CRF as the cause here. Have you tried more boxes stashed around
the house? Maybe she just has to pee too badly to make it to a
litterbox...

Laura
--
It's always best to eliminate the most obvious cause so getting the kitty
checked for urinary tract problems would be my first inclination.

I haven't dealt with a cat with seizures (aside from giving a friend' cat
his meds when they were away for the weekend) but my son was being treated
for seizure disorder for 12 years. The meds didn't always totally stop the
seizure activity. When he had seizures while taking Phenobarbital he lost
bladder control during the seizure. If there is no urinary tract problem
I'd wonder if maybe the Phenobarb isn't stopping all seizure activity. Maybe
a higher dose or different medication?

W

If there is no urinary tract problem
I'd wonder if maybe the Phenobarb isn't stopping all seizure activity. Maybe
a higher dose or different medication?

W

I don't think it's a seizure-related issue (and know it's not a UTI), since
I've watched her do it and she definitely wasn't having any problem at the
time! Still, I think I'll give the neurologist a call and see if we can try
something else here - this is really getting worse (she's been doing it for
quite awhile, while on the valium instead of the phenobarb as well).

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience