In or out PT 2

Hi again group.

I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the
advice that you all gave.

We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors.
Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time).
We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes.

I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you all.
It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points.

I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be
allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from
regarding the dangers out there.
And a fair point you make too.
I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go.
They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they
are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild',
to do that.

Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have
seen them roaming around for many years.
That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here.

Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to
pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last
thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for
Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going to
be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the
little furball!!
We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the
vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in case...)

Do you think there could be a happy medium?
I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough
period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far?
The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of cats
being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter).
I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there,
the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim.
Lottery number odds I would say.

I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's
cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back
around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the
night.
Something like that seems ideal to me.

Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that?
Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too
dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long?

Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this.

Thanks guys.

"Jay Kaner" wrote
I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go.
They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they
are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild',
to do that.

Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have
seen them roaming around for many years.
That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here.

Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to
pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last
thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for
Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going
to
be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the
little furball!!
We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the
vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in
case...)

Do you think there could be a happy medium?


First, thank you for your very thoughtful post. I think every cat owner
would
love to see their cats enjoy the outdoors, if they can do it safely. Many
are like
me, and grew up with a series of cats that ended in a bloody meaty pile
under
a shrub having been hit by a care or disemboweled by the neighbor's German
Shepherd that happened to get out. It causes strong opinions.

Yes, there is a happy medium! A fenced or walled garden/yard with a bit
of extra at the top, to keep the cat from leaving your yard, for one! And
a cat door! That way Beacheeee might have some freedom and your dear
five year old can have her a long time, and learn both the joys of having an
animal and the responsibility of keeping it safe.

My sister allows her cats and dogs out through a cat door. She is here in
the
US, in a fairly rural area. Here kittens--siblings--were indoor-only until
they
were six months old or so, and now when they go out, they *could* leave
the fenced in area, but don't. Cats are so trainable. I have a
seven-year-old
rescue that had been "semi-feral," found pregnant at six months old,
apparently
having lived outside her whole life. After four months at a no-kill shelter,
where
she had her kittens, was spayed, and was socialized by the lovely volunteers
there, I adopted her. ALL she did was try to get out the first couple of
weeks.
She weaseled out behind the washer, got in to the earthen basement and out
in the yard, which, though fenced, was scalable. We chased her until she ran
back in the back door! She was 7 pounds of wirey muscle, totally slippery,
it was hilarious trying to hold her when she wanted to get away, but--she
never put out her claws. Anyway, the last time she got out it was out the
front door, which faces on a very busy street here in Raleigh, North
Carolina.
I saw her escape, and shrieked, immediately imagining her splattered on the
road like the squirrels I see every single day. Ran to the door, yelled her
name,
{okay, yes, I was in tears } and the cat stopped dead in her tracks with a
look
of alarm on her face, circled the azaleas in front of the front walk and ran
BACK
IN the house as fast as she could! And she has never tried it again, has
been here
over five years.

What keeps her happy: plenty of big, high screened windows with window
seats,
and a screened patio door she can lie by and look out of; lots of toys; the
company
of our other cat; and us.

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too
dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long?

It probably depends on the individual cat. My first two cats were strictly
indoor cats for the first 7 years of their lives when I lived in a 3rd floor
apartment. That was in the 1960s. Then I got married and moved into a
house in a suburb. We let the cats outside during the day, inside at night.
They adapted well, and both lived to be 18+ years old. Next group of cats
(3) were also indoor-outdoor cats. Again we got lucky. They never
experienced injuries or disease until old age took them.

Now we live in a rural area and I do not let my cats roam. One stray we
took in 6 years ago was quite comfortable outside, but once we adopted her
she showed no interest in going back outside, although in the last year or
so she's gone outside. We let our current crop of cats outside for brief
periods under supervision. A stray we adopted in December '05 that had a
litter earlier that summer (before she was under our control) and took quite
good care of the babies absolutely refuses to go outside now. She has us
trained to bring grass inside the house for her to nibble on.

I will never let another cat of mine be an outdoor cat or even an
unsupervised indoor-outdoor cat, no matter where we live. When our current
cats go outside it's under strict supervision and
they don't get to stay out long. They're all healthy and appear quite
contented. And we have lots of toys and climbing posts for them. I should
mention all my cats get spayed or neutered as soon as they're old enough, or
as soon as I adopt them, in the case of adult strays.

I see no reason to let a cat go outside. As long as there are things to do
inside the home, a cat should be quite content. I suppose there are some
that won't be, but that hasn't been my experience.

Gail F.

Jay Kaner wrote:

Do you think there could be a happy medium?
I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough
period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far?

IMO, the ideal situation is a fenced in yard (fencing needs to be
pretty high to avoid the cat getting over if you want to leave her
outside unsupervised too), the second best a completely screened in
porch.

I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's
cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back
around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the
night.
Something like that seems ideal to me.
Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that?

My two indoor-outdoor cats are allowed out first thing in the morning
until I go to work, and then again when I come home from work until
bedtime at the latest. Generally they adhere to those times, but
occasionally one of them decides that she wants to stay out all day.
I'm pretty adamant about nighttimes, the way I manage it is that they
only get fed when they return from their evening tour.

Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too
dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long?

Don't really know. I do believe their instincts are pretty good, but
whether they are let out as kittens or adults, gradually have to learn
their way around. They just get more tolerance from other outside cats
while they are still kittens!

Petra

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

Do you think there could be a happy medium?

Sure- an outdoor enclosure that your cats can access through a window or
door.

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...
Hi again group.

I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the
advice that you all gave.

We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors.
Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time).

That's reasonable. She's too young for the winter outside.

We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes.

I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you
all.
It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points.

I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be
allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from
regarding the dangers out there.
And a fair point you make too.
I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go.
They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they
are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild',
to do that.

Absolutely. Just make sure she's not outside at night, cause they're
predators and natural-born killers, and will kill anything they can get
their claws on (birds, rabbits, fish, mice...depends on the cat and
availability of pray) which is bad for wildlife around cat's home. And yes,
they'll kill even just for fun, even if they're not hungry.

Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have
seen them roaming around for many years.
That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here.


NYC centre and a village of 50 people is not the same, of course. That's
common sense.

Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to
pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last
thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for
Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going
to
be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the
little furball!!
We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the
vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in
case...)

Do you think there could be a happy medium?

As I was writing before, indoors at night and a couple of hours outside
during the day (in an enclosed backyard, not on the street, of course) can't
hurt.

I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough
period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far?
The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of
cats
being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter).
I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there,
the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim.
Lottery number odds I would say.

I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour
who's
cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back
around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the
night.
Something like that seems ideal to me.

Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that?
Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too
dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long?


Something that comes to mind is a cat suddenly let outside during the cold
winter, without being able to adapt to temperature change. I don't see other
dangerous situations.

Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this.

Thanks guys.



Glad to be of help:-)

"cybercat" wrote


First, thank you for your very thoughtful post. I think every cat owner
would
love to see their cats enjoy the outdoors, if they can do it safely. Many
are like
me, and grew up with a series of cats that ended in a bloody meaty pile
under
a shrub having been hit by a care or disemboweled by the neighbor's German
Shepherd that happened to get out. It causes strong opinions.

Yes, there is a happy medium! A fenced or walled garden/yard with a bit
of extra at the top, to keep the cat from leaving your yard, for one! And
a cat door! That way Beacheeee might have some freedom and your dear
five year old can have her a long time, and learn both the joys of having
an
animal and the responsibility of keeping it safe.

My sister allows her cats and dogs out through a cat door. She is here in
the
US, in a fairly rural area. Here kittens--siblings--were indoor-only until
they
were six months old or so, and now when they go out, they *could* leave
the fenced in area, but don't.

Thanks for that. That's helped me make up my mind on what to do, especially
that last sentence.

My rear garden is a decent size (60' x 60'). It's completely enclosed with
6' fencing, which was there when we moved in. Years ago, for totally
different reasons, I made it as cat prooff as I could. This was to stop the
other neighbourhood cats from coming in and doing their 'business' amongst
my shrubs and plants (not that it stopped it completely, but it did help up
to a point that I was/am happy with).

I've given this a lot of thought and have decided that this is what I am
going to do.

Beacheeee will be spayed before she goes on heat (that's a given). After
that she can go into the garden whenever she wants. Beacheeee will have a
loving home, with plenty of things to keep her happy indoors. She will be
able to go outside more or less whenever she pleases. Now, if she wants to
scale a 6' high fence to get outside the garden and into the world beyond,
then I'm not going to try to stop her. My thinking is, if a lovely warm and
happy home, where there's plenty of food and things to do, and a big
enclosed garden isn't enough to stop her *wanting* to go outside, then she
obviously really wants to do it, and if that's the case, then fine, I'll let
her.

To my mind, that's an happy medium. And a fair one

Thanks to all who replied. Sorry I haven't got enough time to reply to all,
but you all helped in my decision.

Thanks again.











Cats are so trainable. I have a
seven-year-old
rescue that had been "semi-feral," found pregnant at six months old,
apparently
having lived outside her whole life. After four months at a no-kill
shelter,
where
she had her kittens, was spayed, and was socialized by the lovely
volunteers
there, I adopted her. ALL she did was try to get out the first couple of
weeks.
She weaseled out behind the washer, got in to the earthen basement and out
in the yard, which, though fenced, was scalable. We chased her until she
ran
back in the back door! She was 7 pounds of wirey muscle, totally slippery,
it was hilarious trying to hold her when she wanted to get away, but--she
never put out her claws. Anyway, the last time she got out it was out the
front door, which faces on a very busy street here in Raleigh, North
Carolina.
I saw her escape, and shrieked, immediately imagining her splattered on
the
road like the squirrels I see every single day. Ran to the door, yelled
her
name,
{okay, yes, I was in tears } and the cat stopped dead in her tracks with
a
look
of alarm on her face, circled the azaleas in front of the front walk and
ran
BACK
IN the house as fast as she could! And she has never tried it again, has
been here
over five years.

What keeps her happy: plenty of big, high screened windows with window
seats,
and a screened patio door she can lie by and look out of; lots of toys;
the
company
of our other cat; and us.

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...
Hi again group.

I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the
advice that you all gave.

We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors.
Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time).
We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes.

I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you
all.
It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points.

I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be
allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from
regarding the dangers out there.
And a fair point you make too.
I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go.
They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they
are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild',
to do that.

Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have
seen them roaming around for many years.
That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here.

Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to
pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last
thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for
Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going
to
be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the
little furball!!
We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the
vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in
case...)

Do you think there could be a happy medium?
I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough
period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far?
The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of
cats
being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter).
I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there,
the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim.
Lottery number odds I would say.

I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour
who's
cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back
around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the
night.
Something like that seems ideal to me.

Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that?
Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too
dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long?

Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this.

Thanks guys.


Hi Jay,

I have been offline (computer problems) for a few days, but here's something
I do with my babies. I just go for 'walkies' with them in the yard. If I
have something to do in the yard, I take one or two of them with me. They
have a lovely romp, but don't go too far from 'mum' (indoor only cats
usually do this, as they were never taught to hunt and roam)
This can also be something fun your daughter can do with her kitten. Best of
luck to both of you!

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

"cybercat" wrote


Beacheeee will be spayed before she goes on heat (that's a given). After
that she can go into the garden whenever she wants. Beacheeee will have
a
loving home, with plenty of things to keep her happy indoors. She will be
able to go outside more or less whenever she pleases. Now, if she wants
to
scale a 6' high fence to get outside the garden and into the world beyond,
then I'm not going to try to stop her. My thinking is, if a lovely warm
and
happy home, where there's plenty of food and things to do, and a big
enclosed garden isn't enough to stop her *wanting* to go outside, then she
obviously really wants to do it, and if that's the case, then fine, I'll
let
her.

To my mind, that's an happy medium. And a fair one

Thanks to all who replied. Sorry I haven't got enough time to reply to
all,
but you all helped in my decision.

Thanks again.


They sell fencing that cats can't get in or out of. Why don't you invest in
that so that your kitty can't get out and others can't get in to potentially
infect your cat with something. Your cat will eventually get older and
slower. If you have the young turks coming in your yard it's only a matter
of time before you're hauling her off to the vet with a bite wound that has
abscessed.

I find your resignation about your cat venturing out of your yard
depressing. That's like saying if your child decided to play in traffic
because he or she let herself out of the fence gate then oh well he/she
really wanted to do and if that's the case then fine. I have yet to see a
cat look both ways before crossing the street.

I have also noticed that the cat will want to investigate where you go. If
you ever walk across the street or to a neighbor's house, your cat is likely
to want to investigate there too. My SIL lives in the boonies. Maybe 10 cars
pass her home all day. The problem is their property spans the road and they
park across the street from the house. It's not very long before their cats
venture over there to check things out. Her cats live a maximum of 2 years.

W