OT - Ping Pat kombu

On 15 Jan 2012 04:53:05 GMT, wrote:
Somehow I missed this reply. Thanks, I will try to remember to do this
next time I cook legumes.

By the way, I wonder where Pat is? She never responded to this ping,
and I haven't seen any other posts from her in a while, either.

She's very active on our sister FB group, but has unfortunately said a
couple of weeks ago that she's unsubscribed from the Usenet group.

Takayuki wrote:

On 15 Jan 2012 04:53:05 GMT, wrote:
Somehow I missed this reply. Thanks, I will try to remember to do this
next time I cook legumes.

By the way, I wonder where Pat is? She never responded to this ping,
and I haven't seen any other posts from her in a while, either.

She's very active on our sister FB group, but has unfortunately said a
couple of weeks ago that she's unsubscribed from the Usenet group.

Oh, thanks! I guess I'll have to wander over to the Dark Side to contact
her.

--
Joyce

I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better
for it. -- Abraham Lincoln

Pat, a while ago you posted something about a kind of seaweed called
kombu, which I gather one can get at an Asian grocery store, or maybe
at a health food store? I'm particularly interested in what you said
about it being good to put kombu into cooking legumes, because it
neutralizes whatever it is about legumes that causes gas in the eater.

Found something interesting about this yesterday which may explain why
it's so variable in effect. New Scientist, 3 Dec 2011:

: Seaweed makes tasty sushi, but is not very digestible. However,
: it seems that some Japanese people have the problem licked. Their
: gut bacteria contain genes of marine origin that help break down
: the polysaccharide porphyran found in some seaweeds (_Nature_,
: vol 464, p908). It would appear that generations of sushi eaters
: (or rather the bacteria in their intestines) have picked up these
: genes from bacteria ingested with seaweed, adding a new later of
: complexity to the old adage that you are what you eat.

The gas problem from beans is due to undigested oligopolysaccharides,
so maybe the same gene helps deal with those? The bit I just quoted
doesn't give any indication how long it takes for the seaweed germ
genes to start doing something useful. Perhaps eating unsterilized
raw kombu regularly would do it. Cooked kombu obviously couldn't
work that way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

Jack Campin wrote:
Pat, a while ago you posted something about a kind of seaweed called
kombu, which I gather one can get at an Asian grocery store, or maybe
at a health food store? I'm particularly interested in what you said
about it being good to put kombu into cooking legumes, because it
neutralizes whatever it is about legumes that causes gas in the eater.

Found something interesting about this yesterday which may explain why
it's so variable in effect. New Scientist, 3 Dec 2011:

: Seaweed makes tasty sushi, but is not very digestible. However,
: it seems that some Japanese people have the problem licked. Their
: gut bacteria contain genes of marine origin that help break down
: the polysaccharide porphyran found in some seaweeds (_Nature_,
: vol 464, p908). It would appear that generations of sushi eaters
: (or rather the bacteria in their intestines) have picked up these
: genes from bacteria ingested with seaweed, adding a new later of
: complexity to the old adage that you are what you eat.

The gas problem from beans is due to undigested oligopolysaccharides,
so maybe the same gene helps deal with those? The bit I just quoted
doesn't give any indication how long it takes for the seaweed germ
genes to start doing something useful. Perhaps eating unsterilized
raw kombu regularly would do it. Cooked kombu obviously couldn't
work that way.

This is interesting. However, from my admittedly amateurish knowledge
of digestion, isn't gas caused precisely by bacteria digesting what the
human couldn't, and thus producing gas? In lactose intolerance the
bacteria process the lactose the human couldn't; with legumes they
process the saccharides the human couldn't; and the result is gas.

In that sense, wouldn't the bacteria digesting kombu cause the gas,
not prevent it? Maybe it is the same with beans? beans, in Bulgaria
beans are traditionally cooked with savory (the herb), which is claimed
to reduce gas production. (Joyce, maybe try to find savory around where
you live and see if it helps?) I personally haven't noticed anything
untoward when eating beans, but that's probably because I eat them very
rarely in the States - they just don't taste good to me without the
savory, although oregano may be substituted for a somewhat similar and
inferior taste.

And maybe the gas is caused by something else? I have a very strange
reaction to milk. When using regular USA supermarket milk, I have a
reaction very similar to moderate lactose intolerance. However, when the
milk is lactose-free *or* organic, there's no such reaction. Which means
that it is something else, present in commercial milk, and destroyed by
the lactose-free-ation. A hormone, or antibiotic? - no idea.

And finally, to get back to our cats, it was with extreme surprise
that I learned in the States that cats could be lactose intolerant! It
was absolutely traditional that what cats got for food was a bowl of
milk or yogurt together with whatever hard food they were getting. As a
matter of fact I can't remember ever giving water to a cat in Bulgaria -
it was always milk or yogurt. Maybe they, like people, adapt
genetically, and are mostly able to digest milk products in the old
parts of Europe?

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
*
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

On Jan 22, 4:03*pm, Patok wrote:
Jack Campin wrote:
Pat, a while ago you posted something about a kind of seaweed called
kombu, which I gather one can get at an Asian grocery store, or maybe
at a health food store? I'm particularly interested in what you said
about it being good to put kombu into cooking legumes, because it
neutralizes whatever it is about legumes that causes gas in the eater.

Found something interesting about this yesterday which may explain why
it's so variable in effect. *New Scientist, 3 Dec 2011:

: Seaweed makes tasty sushi, but is not very digestible. *However,
: it seems that some Japanese people have the problem licked. *Their
: gut bacteria contain genes of marine origin that help break down
: the polysaccharide porphyran found in some seaweeds (_Nature_,
: vol 464, p908). *It would appear that generations of sushi eaters
: (or rather the bacteria in their intestines) have picked up these
: genes from bacteria ingested with seaweed, adding a new later of
: complexity to the old adage that you are what you eat.

The gas problem from beans is due to undigested oligopolysaccharides,
so maybe the same gene helps deal with those? *The bit I just quoted
doesn't give any indication how long it takes for the seaweed germ
genes to start doing something useful. *Perhaps eating unsterilized
raw kombu regularly would do it. *Cooked kombu obviously couldn't
work that way.

* *This is interesting. However, from my admittedly amateurish knowledge
of digestion, isn't gas caused precisely by bacteria digesting what the
human couldn't, and thus producing gas? In lactose intolerance the
bacteria process the lactose the human couldn't; with legumes they
process the saccharides the human couldn't; and the result is gas.

* *In that sense, wouldn't the bacteria digesting kombu cause the gas,
not prevent it? Maybe it is the same with beans? beans, in Bulgaria
beans are traditionally cooked with savory (the herb), which is claimed
to reduce gas production. (Joyce, maybe try to find savory around where
you live and see if it helps?) I personally haven't noticed anything
untoward when eating beans, but that's probably because I eat them very
rarely in the States - they just don't taste good to me without the
savory, although oregano may be substituted for a somewhat similar and
inferior taste.

* *And maybe the gas is caused by something else? I have a very strange
reaction to milk. When using regular USA supermarket milk, I have a
reaction very similar to moderate lactose intolerance. However, when the
milk is lactose-free *or* organic, there's no such reaction. Which means
that it is something else, present in commercial milk, and destroyed by
the lactose-free-ation. A hormone, or antibiotic? - no idea.

Lactose free milk are milk treated with the lactase enzyme which
breaks down the lactose in milk into galactose and glucose monomers,
resulting in a sweeter tasting milk. Since the lactose is already
broken
down, it would not cause any lactose intolerance reaction such as gas.
One can turn regular milk into lactose free milk by following the same
procedure. Lactase enzyme are available in drug stores. The
drawback is you have to wait about 24 hrs to let the lactose be
completely broken down by lactase.
Yogurt, which has bacterial cultures, are usually less a problem for
lactose intolerance. The bacteria does the work of breaking down
the lactose.


* *And finally, to get back to our cats, it was with extreme surprise
that I learned in the States that cats could be lactose intolerant! It
was absolutely traditional that what cats got for food was a bowl of
milk or yogurt together with whatever hard food they were getting. As a
matter of fact I can't remember ever giving water to a cat in Bulgaria -
it was always milk or yogurt. Maybe they, like people, adapt
genetically, and are mostly able to digest milk products in the old
parts of Europe?

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
*
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Jack Campin wrote:

Pat, a while ago you posted something about a kind of seaweed called
kombu, which I gather one can get at an Asian grocery store, or maybe
at a health food store? I'm particularly interested in what you said
about it being good to put kombu into cooking legumes, because it
neutralizes whatever it is about legumes that causes gas in the eater.

Found something interesting about this yesterday which may explain why
it's so variable in effect. New Scientist, 3 Dec 2011:

: Seaweed makes tasty sushi, but is not very digestible. However,
: it seems that some Japanese people have the problem licked. Their
: gut bacteria contain genes of marine origin that help break down
: the polysaccharide porphyran found in some seaweeds (_Nature_,
: vol 464, p908). It would appear that generations of sushi eaters
: (or rather the bacteria in their intestines) have picked up these
: genes from bacteria ingested with seaweed, adding a new later of
: complexity to the old adage that you are what you eat.

The gas problem from beans is due to undigested oligopolysaccharides,
so maybe the same gene helps deal with those? The bit I just quoted
doesn't give any indication how long it takes for the seaweed germ
genes to start doing something useful. Perhaps eating unsterilized
raw kombu regularly would do it. Cooked kombu obviously couldn't
work that way.

Or maybe other researchers already know which bacteria can digest
the oligopolysaccharides? In which case, maybe I could hunt down the
right probiotics.

I don't think I'd want to eat an unsterilized food when I don't know
whether there are any unfriendly bacteria or other creatures in it.

--
Joyce

Beauty and music seduce us first; later, ashamed of our own
sensuality, we insist on meaning. -- Clive Barker

On Jan 22, 5:30*pm, wrote:
Jack Campin wrote:

* Pat, a while ago you posted something about a kind of seaweed called
* kombu, which I gather one can get at an Asian grocery store, or maybe
* at a health food store? I'm particularly interested in what you said
* about it being good to put kombu into cooking legumes, because it
* neutralizes whatever it is about legumes that causes gas in the eater.

* Found something interesting about this yesterday which may explain why
* it's so variable in effect. *New Scientist, 3 Dec 2011:

* : Seaweed makes tasty sushi, but is not very digestible. *However,
* : it seems that some Japanese people have the problem licked. *Their
* : gut bacteria contain genes of marine origin that help break down
* : the polysaccharide porphyran found in some seaweeds (_Nature_,
* : vol 464, p908). *It would appear that generations of sushi eaters
* : (or rather the bacteria in their intestines) have picked up these
* : genes from bacteria ingested with seaweed, adding a new later of
* : complexity to the old adage that you are what you eat.

* The gas problem from beans is due to undigested oligopolysaccharides,
* so maybe the same gene helps deal with those? *The bit I just quoted
* doesn't give any indication how long it takes for the seaweed germ
* genes to start doing something useful. *Perhaps eating unsterilized
* raw kombu regularly would do it. *Cooked kombu obviously couldn't
* work that way.

Or maybe other researchers already know which bacteria can digest
the oligopolysaccharides? In which case, maybe I could hunt down the
right probiotics.


Joyce, please let me know when you find the right probiotics.
Seaweed itself is nutritious, but I don't want to eat
raw seaweed. -- Winnie

I don't think I'd want to eat an unsterilized food when I don't know
whether there are any unfriendly bacteria or other creatures in it.

--
Joyce

Beauty and music seduce us first; later, ashamed of our own
sensuality, we insist on meaning. * * * * * * * * *-- Clive Barker

Winnie wrote:
On Jan 22, 4:03 pm, Patok wrote:

And maybe the gas is caused by something else? I have a very strange
reaction to milk. When using regular USA supermarket milk, I have a
reaction very similar to moderate lactose intolerance. However, when the
milk is lactose-free *or* organic, there's no such reaction. Which means
that it is something else, present in commercial milk, and destroyed by
the lactose-free-ation. A hormone, or antibiotic? - no idea.

Lactose free milk are milk treated with the lactase enzyme which
breaks down the lactose in milk into galactose and glucose monomers,
resulting in a sweeter tasting milk.

Yes, of course. There was never any question about how lactose-free
milk is made. I was rather wondering what the substance was, that was
removed in the process - was it a hormone, an antibiotic, or something else?


And finally, to get back to our cats, it was with extreme surprise
that I learned in the States that cats could be lactose intolerant! It
was absolutely traditional that what cats got for food was a bowl of
milk or yogurt together with whatever hard food they were getting. As a
matter of fact I can't remember ever giving water to a cat in Bulgaria -
it was always milk or yogurt. Maybe they, like people, adapt
genetically, and are mostly able to digest milk products in the old
parts of Europe?