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#1
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I am afraid of my cat! HELP ME!! (long!)
I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first:
6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. |
#2
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Long post, but worth the read... Since you never took Ginger to the vet for
shots, check up's or any castration, who can really say what could be the problem. It literally could be anything. Granted the bite on its leg doesn't help, who knows. I wouldn't be afraid of the cat one bit. It's not a tiger cub and it can only do so much damage. Remember, you (for the most part) control Ginger's life (i.e. feeding, care taking.). Regardless, the cat will come around when it wants. "patti" wrote in message om... I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first: 6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. |
#3
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Long post, but worth the read... Since you never took Ginger to the vet for
shots, check up's or any castration, who can really say what could be the problem. It literally could be anything. Granted the bite on its leg doesn't help, who knows. I wouldn't be afraid of the cat one bit. It's not a tiger cub and it can only do so much damage. Remember, you (for the most part) control Ginger's life (i.e. feeding, care taking.). Regardless, the cat will come around when it wants. "patti" wrote in message om... I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first: 6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. |
#4
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This is what I mean by emotional trauma. An animal treated with
violence will become violent. Definitively his previous owner was a jerk. Now the cat thinks all humans are alike. I´d diagnose him as borderline and that´s about the hardest thing to deal with in psychiatry. I had a cat just like that before. My sister had found her in the streets with half her tail missing and an abdominal hernia and brought her home. At the time she was about two or three months old. I could not keep her indoors because she would bother and fight with my other cats all the time so I kept her outside. It came to a point where I no longer touched her because she would bite and scratch out of thin air. I just made sure she had water and food and a nice place to sleep. She was poisoned and died about three years ago. I hope someone here has good advice as how to "cure" this cat if this is anywhere possible. |
#5
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This is what I mean by emotional trauma. An animal treated with
violence will become violent. Definitively his previous owner was a jerk. Now the cat thinks all humans are alike. I´d diagnose him as borderline and that´s about the hardest thing to deal with in psychiatry. I had a cat just like that before. My sister had found her in the streets with half her tail missing and an abdominal hernia and brought her home. At the time she was about two or three months old. I could not keep her indoors because she would bother and fight with my other cats all the time so I kept her outside. It came to a point where I no longer touched her because she would bite and scratch out of thin air. I just made sure she had water and food and a nice place to sleep. She was poisoned and died about three years ago. I hope someone here has good advice as how to "cure" this cat if this is anywhere possible. |
#6
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On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 04:19:57 GMT, "Iso" wrote:
Long post, but worth the read... Since you never took Ginger to the vet for shots, check up's or any castration, who can really say what could be the problem. It literally could be anything. Granted the bite on its leg doesn't help, who knows. I wouldn't be afraid of the cat one bit. It's not a tiger cub and it can only do so much damage. Remember, you (for the most part) control Ginger's life (i.e. feeding, care taking.). Regardless, the cat will come around when it wants. "patti" wrote in message . com... I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first: 6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. Many, many years ago I had a male orange cat named Ginger. He was not neutered (didn't do it in those days). He was indoors/outdoors and a very good cat. He (unfortunately) developed an abcess from a bite of some kind and even though the Vet lanced and drained it, it just would not heal (before antibiotics). I suggest you use a spray bottle to spray your Ginger when he comes for your feet. Of course he feels your fear -- animals do. You have to show him you are master. Cats don't like lous noises so when you say No - make it loud.Some cats are lap cats - some are not. My Ginger was not although he liked to be petted. Give him toys to play with to distract him from you. Read some bookds on cat training. Good luck. |
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On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 04:19:57 GMT, "Iso" wrote:
Long post, but worth the read... Since you never took Ginger to the vet for shots, check up's or any castration, who can really say what could be the problem. It literally could be anything. Granted the bite on its leg doesn't help, who knows. I wouldn't be afraid of the cat one bit. It's not a tiger cub and it can only do so much damage. Remember, you (for the most part) control Ginger's life (i.e. feeding, care taking.). Regardless, the cat will come around when it wants. "patti" wrote in message . com... I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first: 6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. Many, many years ago I had a male orange cat named Ginger. He was not neutered (didn't do it in those days). He was indoors/outdoors and a very good cat. He (unfortunately) developed an abcess from a bite of some kind and even though the Vet lanced and drained it, it just would not heal (before antibiotics). I suggest you use a spray bottle to spray your Ginger when he comes for your feet. Of course he feels your fear -- animals do. You have to show him you are master. Cats don't like lous noises so when you say No - make it loud.Some cats are lap cats - some are not. My Ginger was not although he liked to be petted. Give him toys to play with to distract him from you. Read some bookds on cat training. Good luck. |
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#10
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thanks iso---new problem today--i am still scared of him --he is
hissing and more than likely he really does need a return trip to the vets. as you say maybe his problem is more than what seems so obvious (the bite) he is worse than he was when i took him to the vet --he won't move. he hasn't eaten much--i figured i would give him another day but i hardly want him out there in the pouring rain---can you or someone tell me how to use a tarp method to contain him? i guess i should toss something over him to put him in a container--(i really do not want to get bitten and believe me he weighs 17 pounds and has teeth 1/2 inch long so he DOES seem like a fierce animal when he is mad and he's mad--!!) advise on capturing him--? he is not hungry enough to fall for the food in the back of a trap thing. "Iso" wrote in message om... Long post, but worth the read... Since you never took Ginger to the vet for shots, check up's or any castration, who can really say what could be the problem. It literally could be anything. Granted the bite on its leg doesn't help, who knows. I wouldn't be afraid of the cat one bit. It's not a tiger cub and it can only do so much damage. Remember, you (for the most part) control Ginger's life (i.e. feeding, care taking.). Regardless, the cat will come around when it wants. "patti" wrote in message om... I have several questions for you cat folks--a little background first: 6 years ago I adopted a stray--I did not want to (I was previously a dog person). The cat showed up pathetic and skinny and we were having an ice storm so I fed it and eventually gave it a place to live in the laundry room (we lived on a really busy street). The cat is unusally big and pretty--my plan was to just feed it until i found an owner (YARITE--you know how THAT goes!) ---it would bite my feet whenever I would do the laundry---trying to get my attention etcetera. Luckily I was always wearing footwear. My friend told me that it is definately a "calico" cat and therefore it HAD to be female. From the very beginning it has been ridiculously aggressive but once I decided it was mine I thought I would killit with kindness!! give it love love love to prove a point if to no one else to myself. (I was kind of dumb but my method did actually work to a point) I named her ginger (short for gingersnap) and sure enough ginger has always KIND OF liked me ---despite also biting and scratching me from time to time. I always forgave her quickly and "self-diagnosed" her as having "affection aggression disorder". (you can be petting her and then BLAM! she bites ya!) I could never get ginger in a carrier so I have never had her innoculated for anything. (sorry--but she has huge fangs and claws and the more I don't try to control her the better) anyway!! when I moved in with my fella he said I could keep ginger but not in the house (this was a relief because I did not want to get rid of her --- it was a neat compromise) I managed to get her into a carboard box to move her (not without alot of trepidation). In her new neighborhood ginger terrorized everyone in their own yards!! I apologized to all the neighbors and the neighbors have accepted ginger's behavior pretty much--(though she was always picking on neighbor cats--even teeney ones in their own yard!!) Here is what brings me to today's post--- for about three weeks ginger has been different--she hasn't been fighting and she has been sleeping alot. I thought this was GREAT! She also was always on the front porch but just a couple days ago it became plain that she was VERY hurt. She could barely walk so I don't know how (maybe she knew it was best) but I put her in the box and took her to her first vet appointment.---the vet found that ginger had a good sized bite on her leg and so he gave her five shots (all the ones cats are supposed to have plus an antiboitic) She handled all this well, came home sat quietly in the yard --now here is the OTHER thing--------the doctor told me that ginger is a neutered male!!! bet you saw that coming eh??? That was yesterday--today she---er HE is REALLY mean even to me (her "mommy") I have been leaving him alone (well that's not hard given that he is hissing and growling even much more than usual) ---I just don't know what to think---she --oops he is sitting in the yard and i am of course just watching carefully and hoping this is healing time and my ginger will return to me (emotionally). I used to be able to pick ginger up--but not today!!! I am wondering if he has had this infection for a long time (and that is why he was sleeping more??) also--no other cat have been able to best ginger! in four years this is the first injury recieved despite many encounters. right now I am scared to death of him and I think some of this has to do with learning the new gender!!!!!! when I thought it was a female I really felt very sorry for it---now I realize it was a very very territorial male not a mixed up female and my whole feeling toward ginger has changed. --do you have any suggestions for me in how to feel confident (once again) in his midst? when it was a "girl" I felt I had her somewhat "tamed" and now I am just plum scared of him!! does he sense that do you think??? do you think I should still call him ginger?? Do you think he has had the infection for a really long time and that is why he was sleeping? do you think he'll get better --and what do you think i should watch for now --what would be the normal course of healing? thank you so much for reading all this!!! anything you can offer is appreciated. |
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